Sorry but usually PIP will not let me post much bigger pics. The plan is to reuse it with a new Spec 3 clutch. From what I can tell it is not gouged any, just looks to have mucus on it.
Sorry but usually PIP will not let me post much bigger pics.
That image is only 497 pixels in width. PIP allows a max of 1024 pixels. Max file size is 300 kb. You could also zoom in considerably when taking the shot.
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:
...just looks to have mucus on it.
Unless you've been spitting on it, that's rather doubtful.
I tried resizing that last pic countless times but PIP just kept telling me nope, that was the biggest I could get it. Anyways, thank you for the feedback Patrick.
FW look like car was parked and got a bit of rust. By itself is not usually a problem. But also seem got uneven wear etc and will need refacing at minimum. If shows even small cracks then get a new one because Depending on several things small cracks can grow fast and cause FW breakage that can wreck the trans or worse. If you race, Fiero Fire Wall and Deck lid isn't made to control FW/clutch "explosions."
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Ogre, you are spot on. The car has been sitting for about a year now because I am redoing everything on it one piece at a time. I figured the rust was not a problem but I am no expert when it comes to clutches and flywheel.
[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 01-13-2018).]
Clutch disk can handle and remove a little rust on FW and pressure plate. Can carefully sandpaper to remove it too. Fine paper won't hurt steel w/ light pressure. Same thing for brakes. But Uneven wear and/or heat damage that you seem to have then clutch disk will perform poorly and all parts wear out again and likely soon.
If so, new or resurface is called for...
Yes, hard to find a new FW for 30+ year old cars... very few list 87 and older Fiero V6 FW. Some to have 88 v6 but needs 88 crank to use it. I saw no list for duke FW.
Resurface for many cars cost is ~ 1/2 the cost of new FW plus Time and "gas" to go to get them turned then pickup after means often total cost is close to same as new for many cars. Plus a shop is "on the hook" if you resurface FW w/ hidden cracks and then breaks. That's why many won't resurface a FW even very small cracks.
Note: Resurf a FW can need FW shims to keep the clutch and TO bearing happy. All depends just how much is cut.
If you can find a better used unit and maybe resurf that maybe help more.
Note: Clean FW and Pressure Plate w/ Brake Clean. New of either/both may need dish soap and water to remove shipping coatings then wash faces that hit the disk w/ brake clean.
I'd be inclined to lightly clean it up with a scotchbrite pad. Might last a long time if not abused. I have 278,000 km (172,700 miles) on my '84 SE clutch & flywheel. (Don't know what they look like, but still working, lol!)
I was surprised to find this when I removed an '86 2.5L with 120,000 km (74,600 miles) since the clutch was working fine.
I put an '87 2.5L back in with 92,000 km (57,200 miles) without touching the clutch surface - it looked much better. Over 3 years, no issues.
I'd be inclined to lightly clean it up with a scotchbrite pad. Might last a long time if not abused.
I put an '87 2.5L back in with 92,000 km (57,200 miles) without touching the clutch surface - it looked much better. Over 3 years, no issues.
"Abused" ?
David, just cleaning up the surface with a scotchbrite pad will do nothing to eliminate uneven flywheel wear. Watch any flywheel resurfacing video and you'll see how the high spots need to be ground away before the low spots are touched. With a duke it might be easier to get away without a flat flywheel as there's no need for much gripping force. The clutch disc on a duke possibly won't be worn away as quickly by the uneven flywheel surface.
IMO, not resurfacing (or replacing) a flywheel when doing a clutch replacement is a horrible idea when it's taken into consideration how much trouble it is to access the clutch/flywheel, especially on a Fiero. I don't know about you, but it's not a job that I enjoy doing more times than necessary.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-14-2018).]
Originally posted by Spadesluck:Haha, how about just "gunk" then.
I was thinking the shiny areas are deposits (referred to as "gunk" above) rather than flywheel base material high spots, and the car wasn't moved much after a long period of non-use before the engine was pulled. Hence the inclination to clean it up & see what the surface is like. If it's uneven wear, that might be due to varying material hardness like lousy brake rotors and not worth resurfacing and re-installing. I might be out to lunch here; I've only replaced one actual failed clutch in 50 years of driving manual shift vehicles.
p.s. "Abuse" to me is slipping the clutch enough to heat it up and induce the surface stress cracks in the picture. To be clear, the pictured cracked flywheel didn't go back in, the much better flywheel on the '87 engine went in.
Originally posted by pmbrunelle: I bought a brand new (neutral balanced) flywheel and it appeared to be balanced (blind holes drilled near the perimeter).
When resurfacing a flywheel, it seems to me that its balance may be affected.
Is it customary to rebalance a flywheel after a resurfacing job? I suppose that balancing is more tricky when there's a counterweight involved...
Yes, Drilling is how FW are balance at the manufacturer. Likely their machine can cancel out the weight(s) for external crank balancing.
Resurface Likely often change balance and very few even check balance. How much error? Could be very small to a quite a lot. Is same for checking for cracks.... Likely no one checks. Mangiflux etc test cost and would add to total cost making resurf job cost over cost for new for most cars.
Big problem is little to no data from GM etc that I've seen that limit resurf jobs. Most FSM I seen all call for replacing a FW if had obvious wear, heat damage or any cracks. Unlike Brake rotors/drums that have "machine to" and discard limits. Discard limit is required by NTSHA to be "printed" on brake rotor/drums. Machine limits are often in a book to allow turning and leave meat above discard limit. (See my Cave, Brake Rotors Spec)
I never had a resurf FW done. The only reason I said above is hard to impossible to find new ones for most 20-30+ year old cars. When I saw above examples or worse I just replace them. Ignore the Cost because not must difference it total a said above... Better for me and shops I work for legal reasons along. If you resurf one and owner have any problems then expect to get sued. More so if they wreck the car regardless driver was racing etc. When don't see above... Clean the FW and check flatness w/ a straightedge. If that doesn't show wear problems then just reused. I replace enough even my own a never had problems w/ a FW passing this simply test. Wear problems often doesn't = 0 wear. Wear can be check using feelers to check for high/low sports. Most OEM disk types can hand a little wear. If your using "spot"/"performances" disks often w/ harder compounds then they are more likely to hate any FW wear.
I had the fly wheel resurfaced on my duke. The flywheel was not warped, but if you drag your finger across the surface you could feel some irregularities. This caused 'jerky' clutch engagement. After the resurfacing, it works great. It was reasonable, cost wise, not much more than getting rotors turned.
[This message has been edited by edfiero (edited 01-17-2018).]
Originally posted by theogre: Yes, hard to find a new FW for 30+ year old cars... very few list 87 and older Fiero V6 FW. Some to have 88 v6 but needs 88 crank to use it. I saw no list for duke FW.
The reality of driving a "classic" means that we have to start getting creative to keep our rides on the road.
Probably the balance issue is a non-issue if you don't rev high, but if you want to hang around 6k, then I'd think you should think twice about balancing before a resurfacing job.
I sidestepped this whole problem in my new Fiero project by getting an 88 V6 flywheel and internally balanced crankshaft, but if I were doing a concours restoration of the car and wanted to keep the externally balanced engine, here is how I would go about making a "balancing kit" for an externally balanced V6 Fiero.
Most shops can handle a complete rotating assembly, so that's what we should strive to provide.
Parts needed: "Known-good" external-balance flywheel External-balance crankshaft (does not need to be the specific one from your engine) Bobweights
Assemble the above parts together. By removing material ONLY from the crankshaft, and not the flywheel, balance the assembly to zero.
Remove the "known-good" flywheel. Your crankshaft and bobweights now consitute a "balancing kit" for a V6 Fiero.
Next, to balance a freshly resurfaced (but possibly imbalanced flywheel): Bolt the freshly resurfaced flywheel to the "balancing kit". By removing material only from the flywheel, balance the assembly to zero (or as close as possible).
When I had the clutch replaced in my 87 GT, the shop bought a new clutch, but for an 88. Once installed the car shook, and we both knew what had been done. They were able to get my old clutch resurfaced along with shims. The shop's owner was PO'd because they absorbed the cost of the install of the wrong one and reinstall of the new one. I had told him that the car required an 87 clutch, but that message never got passed to the tech who ordered parts and did the work.
When I had the clutch replaced in my 87 GT, the shop bought a new clutch, but for an 88. Once installed the car shook, and we both knew what had been done. They were able to get my old clutch resurfaced along with shims. The shop's owner was PO'd because they absorbed the cost of the install of the wrong one and reinstall of the new one. I had told him that the car required an 87 clutch, but that message never got passed to the tech who ordered parts and did the work.
Your post confused me until I realized....exchange the word CLUTCH for FLYWHEEL....and It all makes sense!
Once I get some warm weather I will attempt to clean mine up and go from there. Finding a shop willing to do resurface in this small town could be a challenge. Plus it costs nothing just cleaning it up.
Keep in mind it does nothing either... similar to polishing a turd (if the flywheel wear surface is uneven).
Rather than speculating on this supposed uneven wear, while the flywheel is still on the engine, one would be advised to measure the runout of the flywheel with a dial indicator, while turning over the engine.
