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Removing 4.9 (Seville) by nwarner2010
Started on: 10-14-2017 09:16 AM
Replies: 20 (448 views)
Last post by: nwarner2010 on 01-08-2019 08:36 PM
nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-14-2017 09:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hello, I believe this is my first post here so just want to say thanks for all the info I've been able to gather over the years from reading the forum. I have an 87 Fiero with the Iron Duke engine and I'm trying to swap a 4.9 into it. I bought a 92 Seville a few months back but I'm having a hard time getting the engine out of the cadillac. Does anyone have any tips? Is it best to take the engine and transmission out as one unit? Or separately. I've been taking stuff off like I was going to take them out separately but not really sure whats best. From seeing pictures of the engines out of the cadillac and on a stand from other peoples posts it looks like I'm taking way too much off the engine just to get it out. This is my first time taking an engine and transmission out a car so any input is appreciated!

On a side note the Cadillac had 112K miles on it and I drove it home (2hrs) with no issues. When I do finally get it out what do you guys think about getting a rebuild kit and rebuilding it (engine and transmission)? I'm torn, I kind of want to do it since it will be out anyway but then again it drove home fine and is relatively low on mileage.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-14-2017 09:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Leave engine and trans together, drop the entire cradle out of the bottom of the Seville.
This is how they are designed to come apart for some types of servicing. It's relatively easy.

If it ran and drove ok, don't bother with a rebuild, the drivetrain will easily go 200k with regular maintenance.

Good luck!

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Neils88
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Report this Post10-14-2017 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Welcome to PFF!

I agree with olejoedad. It's not worth breaking the engine down unless you have a specific reason to want to do the rebuild. Unlikely that you need it. I would recommend doing wet / dry compression tests on the engine at some point. This will give you information as to the internal condition of your engine. There is lots of info online explaining how to do this...the compression gauge is inexpensive.

You should keep a build thread on PFF. Make sure you use PIP (Pennock's Image Poster) for posting pics. Just install it by clicking on the link at the bottom of the page (red/blue box)...and follow the instructions.

I look forward to reading about your progress!

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-15-2017 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for the suggestions. Sounds like I should just leave the transmission and engine as is and rebuild a later date if needed.

I'll see if I can figure out how dropping the cradle works. For removing the engine I was following along with a couple pages I had printed out of the Chilton manual, but it lacked a lot of detail. I may have some time to play with it tomorrow if not next weekend I'll have sometime. Hope to have it out by the end of the month! Hopefully when the time comes I find removing the fiero engine a little easier.

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-15-2017 12:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Also good suggestion on maintaining a build thread. I've just download the Pennock's Image Poster. Once I have some pictures and content to post I'll be sure to start a build thread. I've had this car for about 10 years now and have been wanting to do an engine swap since day 1.

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Gall757
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Report this Post10-15-2017 10:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by nwarner2010:

I'll see if I can figure out how dropping the cradle works. For removing the engine I was following along with a couple pages I had printed out of the Chilton manual, but it lacked a lot of detail.


Toss the Chilton manual before it gets you in real trouble.

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Don Adkins
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Report this Post10-15-2017 12:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don AdkinsClick Here to Email Don AdkinsSend a Private Message to Don AdkinsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ok, just my 2 cents, but I worked as an engine tech at the local Cad dealer back in the 80's and 90's when these engines were used. Took the engines out the top all the time. IMHO, it depends on your situation and the type of equipment you have to do the removal. Are you working in a garage??? Do you have a lift to get the car off the cradle after it's loose??Or just some sort of engine lifting crane??? Getting the front of that heavy Cad high enough to clear the engine to drag it out can be difficult and down right dangerous. And then you get to put the cradle back in so you can move the car to get rid of it. If you are gonna use the cad trans, it might be worth it. But be careful. I can pretty much tell ya how to get the engine out the top if you want to know. Easier than it looks.

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olejoedad
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Report this Post10-15-2017 02:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

They're not that hard to pull from the top. No need to separate drivetrain.

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-15-2017 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I had a look at the cradle. I only have a small engine crane so looks like going out the top would probably be easier. Not sure how I would lift the Cadillac over the engine and get it out of the garage. I think I'm almost there with getting the engine out, just have to figure out how to get the last bolt from the engine to transmission housing out (seems impossible to get to) and I think that should be about it, hopefully.

I'm just working with the front of the car on jack stands and a engine crane to lift the engine out. Unfortunately I do not have a lift but wish I did!

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Don Adkins
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Report this Post10-16-2017 12:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Don AdkinsClick Here to Email Don AdkinsSend a Private Message to Don AdkinsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

That bolt comes out easiest using long extensions and a socket from the right wheelwell. And something that will give you leverage to break it loose, like an impact wrench or breaker bar.

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-22-2017 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hello, I seem to be having way more trouble with getting this engine out then I should. During the week I bought the longest extension I could find and I'm still having troubles with that last bolt. I can't seem to get the extension lined up with the bolt, the back of the wheel well seems to get in the way. I've tried various configurations of extensions with different swivel adaptors but just can't seem to get it. I'm starting to wonder if I'm trying to take out the wrong bolt? The bolt I'm trying to take out is back behind this circle area on top of the transmission. Any tips? Also, here's a picture of the fiero that will one day be sporting the V8.




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Don Adkins
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Report this Post10-22-2017 12:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don AdkinsClick Here to Email Don AdkinsSend a Private Message to Don AdkinsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Yeah, that looks like about the right spot. If memory serves me, and it's only been about 22 years since I worked on one of these still in a caddy, I could get to it straight through the right side wheel opening. If you have all the other bolts out and the engine is trying to separate from the tranny, it may be binding, making it harder to break loose. They can be pretty tight. I always used an impact wrench. If you don't have that, a breaker bar and cheater pipe may be necessary. Like I always say. "Whatever it takes".

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Don Adkins
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Report this Post10-22-2017 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Don AdkinsClick Here to Email Don AdkinsSend a Private Message to Don AdkinsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If the engine is separating, put one of the other bolts that are easy to get to back in and draw it up to ease the binding. Might help.

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-22-2017 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I can't even seem to get the socket on it, just can't seem to get the right angle. I'm thinking of just cutting the wheel well off with an angle grinder for better access since the car is just going to the junk yard anyway. I'm going to give it another shot after lunch. I'm probably just not trying hard enough I do have an impact though to get it off once I can actually get to it.

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Raydar
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Report this Post10-22-2017 01:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Assuming you are trying to remove the engine, but leave the trans in the car.

If you already know this, please excuse the redundancy.
Unless I'm mistaken, the bolt you're trying to remove goes through the ear on the side of the engine, and into the trans from the back side.
It's a 15mm head, and a real pain to get to. But it (obviously) can be done. There is also a bracket that attaches the tailshaft(?) of the trans to the side of the block.

There should also be three (I believe... maybe four) bolts that hold the torque converter to the flexplate. You will need to rotate the engine in order to access those bolts. Will make it much easier (and much less messy) to leave the torque converter attached to the trans, than to remove it with the engine. Removing it from the trans will dump trans fluid everywhere.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 10-22-2017).]

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-22-2017 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Assuming you are trying to remove the engine, but leave the trans in the car.

If you already know this, please excuse the redundancy.
Unless I'm mistaken, the bolt you're trying to remove goes through the ear on the side of the engine, and into the trans from the back side.
It's a 15mm head, and a real pain to get to. But it (obviously) can be done. There is also a bracket that attaches the tailshaft(?) of the trans to the side of the block.

There should also be three (I believe... maybe four) bolts that hold the torque converter to the flexplate. You will need to rotate the engine in order to access those bolts. Will make it much easier (and much less messy) to leave the torque converter attached to the trans, than to remove it with the engine. Removing it from the trans will dump trans fluid everywhere.



I want to take both the engine and transmission out eventually. I just assumed it would be easier to do the engine then transmission. I probably assumed wrong, maybe I'll just try to take it out as one unit. someone mentioned earlier that it's possible to just lower the whole cradle, I just don't think I'd be able to do that with the equipment I have available. Yep that's the bolt, the only on that's on the backside. I'll have to look and see if I can find that other bracket from trans to engine block. I did get the torque converter bolts out, you're right there were three.

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Reallybig
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Report this Post10-24-2017 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ReallybigSend a Private Message to ReallybigEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Would it help expose the bolt better if you remove the oil filter? I removed my 4.9 from the top of a 94 deville. Don't remember having this problem. But do remember it taking the better part of two days in a barn with no power or lighting. Worth the effort though!

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post10-28-2017 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks for all the help. I finally got the engine out this morning! I'm not sure what I did different today but I was finally able to get that bolt out. I hope that wasn't the easiest part of the swap. Now to figure out how to remove the transmission...I'll probably just leave that until I clean up the engine.


(please excuse the messy garage, it's hard to clean up after yourself)

[This message has been edited by nwarner2010 (edited 10-28-2017).]

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post01-06-2019 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hello, wow it's been over a year since I started this! Haven't made much progress, got side tracked with other projects etc. Can anyone give a me a list of what exactly I need to keep from the donor car? Cadillac Seville. It's been sitting in my yard for over a year and is a bit of an eyesore so want to get rid of it.

I know I need:

Engine
Transmission
Computer
???

Thanks!


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Neils88
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Report this Post01-06-2019 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Read through several of the 4.9 threads on PFF. That should help you figure out what you need. I started with the engine from the throttle body to the exhaust manifolds (and everything mechanically between them), plus the computer and the harness (don't forget the harness!!!!). I used after market components to hook up the fuel and cooling systems. Vacuum lines hook up to Fiero components. The only other thing you may want is the oil cooler... but many people bypass it since it isn't critical on the Fiero install. I mated my 4.9 to the Isuzu in the Fiero so I didn't bother with the transmission. Other than that, I don't think there is anything else needed.

Here's my build thread...

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/129733.html

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nwarner2010
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Report this Post01-08-2019 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nwarner2010Send a Private Message to nwarner2010Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Thanks! I've read your build thread before, it's great! Just re read through it all. Another reason I need to get rid of this cadillac is I'll be moving from alabama to michigan within the year and don't really have room to be dragging this thing with me, I've thought about just cutting the front half off and keeping it.

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