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250 WHP Supernatural 3.4 Build by La fiera
Started on: 10-07-2017 11:04 PM
Replies: 356 (10640 views)
Last post by: La fiera on 11-04-2019 09:35 AM
La fiera
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Report this Post02-26-2019 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

The exhaust looks and sounds cool. Although the Fiero's aerodynamics will cause some of the exhaust gas to collect behind the rear window. I don't know if it will build up enough to affect performance, but it's something to keep in mind.


You are right Mike. I'm installing a "hatch" to go over the back window. Its going to take the place of the lowvers to help the aero. the pipes will be sticking out of the hatch. It also its going to have an integrated scoop to bring fresh air to the intake and the engine bay.

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Report this Post02-26-2019 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You mean like a hatchback? That would be interesting. (would help with aerodynamics too)

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-26-2019 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

You mean like a hatchback? That would be interesting. (would help with aerodynamics too)


Exactly!

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-26-2019 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post



Supernatural Getto Y pipe vs True Dual Race Pipes. Even though the True Dual Pipes look different they have the exact matched length.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 02-26-2019).]

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Report this Post02-27-2019 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You plan on tying the pipes together at all (like and h or x pipe)? I am not exhaust expert that that is supposed to help with balancing out the motor, or so I have read.

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Will
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Report this Post02-27-2019 08:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:



Supernatural Getto Y pipe vs True Dual Race Pipes. Even though the True Dual Pipes look different they have the exact matched length.




But is it the *right* length?

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-27-2019 10:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
But is it the *right* length?


For the entire package and the powerband , yes it is the right length.
Tuning will be the key with these pipes.

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-27-2019 10:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

You plan on tying the pipes together at all (like and h or x pipe)? I am not exhaust expert that that is supposed to help with balancing out the motor, or so I have read.


H pipe in the furure.

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-27-2019 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
Tuning will be the key with these pipes.


I don't know if this is why the pipes appear to terminate with a female slip-on opening, but it looks like you could easily slip in pipes of different lengths, to rapidly find the ideal pipe length on the dyno.

Unless you've somehow already calculated the ideal pipe length on paper, and you don't find that dyno tuning the length is necessary.

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-27-2019 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


I don't know if this is why the pipes appear to terminate with a female slip-on opening, but it looks like you could easily slip in pipes of different lengths, to rapidly find the ideal pipe length on the dyno.

Unless you've somehow already calculated the ideal pipe length on paper, and you don't find that dyno tuning the length is necessary.


Do you have a crystal ball or something?!

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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-27-2019 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

When I saw those slip-on openings, this is what crossed my mind:
https://getyarn.io/yarn-cli...e4-964b-6174709feffe

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-27-2019 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

When I saw those slip-on openings, this is what crossed my mind:
https://getyarn.io/yarn-cli...e4-964b-6174709feffe


Dude! You Canadians are too much! DId I say anywhere that my boyhood and all time F1 hero is French-Canadian Gilles Villanueve?

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 02-27-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-08-2019 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://youtu.be/Ndrq9smPWBY

Took it for a test drive and HOLLY!!!! Had to do tuning mainly to te fuel table. Did she like the Race pipes? You can hear it.
I thought I had my GoPro recording!!!! I got back from the test drive to find out I didn't recorded it!!! i Was so mad!!
Trans shifts fast and crisp with my upgraded short shirter!

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 03-08-2019).]

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Report this Post03-08-2019 09:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Since I'm running DIS, I threw a Firebird intake on my motor and it was easy to bore it to 59-60mm. I made an adapter to use my L98 twin 48mm throttle body on it. I opened up the ports on the inside edge to allow greater volume going into the middle intake. The middle intake is shaved down at the top and in doing so, the inside edge of the ports becomes larger/open there as well. The gaskets need to be cut/opened on that edge as well.

My 3.4 using DOHC pistons and Trueleo headers and a 2.5" exhaust outruns my 4.9 to about 75mph. Once you kick into 4th gear, the greater torque of the 4.9 will come into play and the tides turn. Still, for what I do - the race is over by then. You can see this here at the 18:55 mark of the video below where I am driving the 4.9 w/Allante intake 5 speed and a buddy of mine is driving my 3.4 6-speed. Tires are Toyo R888's on 3.4 and R888R's on 4.9. 315/35/17's. Another thing is it's much easier to launch the 3.4 than the 4.9... Anyway, the point of this is yes - there is plenty of reason to still want to create performance parts for the old v6/60.



Please take note that my buddy lost to the turbo AWD Dodge Stealth (w/3000GT nose). In this next video at the 15:11 mark, I beat that same car. The difference is I have an alternator switch and I disabled it every time I pulled onto the track. My buddy didn't for that whole race even though I suggested he should. He didn't believe it would make a difference. Back in 2012 or 2013, I dyno'd a +7rwhp and +11 ft*lbs gain after tuning for 12v with a bad alternator. I'm running the 7730 and there's a table that adjusts injector pulse width to battery voltage. So my a/f ratio basically remains the same except the alternator is just a pulley. As you can see, it makes quite a difference. From what I understand newer/modern vehicles modulate the alternator based on battery level. This is a performance/fuel economy feature.

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-08-2019 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Since I'm running DIS, I threw a Firebird intake on my motor and it was easy to bore it to 59-60mm. I made an adapter to use my L98 twin 48mm throttle body on it. I opened up the ports on the inside edge to allow greater volume going into the middle intake. The middle intake is shaved down at the top and in doing so, the inside edge of the ports becomes larger/open there as well. The gaskets need to be cut/opened on that edge as well.

My 3.4 using DOHC pistons and Trueleo headers and a 2.5" exhaust outruns my 4.9 to about 75mph. Once you kick into 4th gear, the greater torque of the 4.9 will come into play and the tides turn. Still, for what I do - the race is over by then. You can see this here at the 18:55 mark of the video below where I am driving the 4.9 w/Allante intake 5 speed and a buddy of mine is driving my 3.4 6-speed. Tires are Toyo R888's on 3.4 and R888R's on 4.9. 315/35/17's. Another thing is it's much easier to launch the 3.4 than the 4.9... Anyway, the point of this is yes - there is plenty of reason to still want to create performance parts for the old v6/60.



Please take note that my buddy lost to the turbo AWD Dodge Stealth (w/3000GT nose). In this next video at the 15:11 mark, I beat that same car. The difference is I have an alternator switch and I disabled it every time I pulled onto the track. My buddy didn't for that whole race even though I suggested he should. He didn't believe it would make a difference. Back in 2012 or 2013, I dyno'd a +7rwhp and +11 ft*lbs gain after tuning for 12v with a bad alternator. I'm running the 7730 and there's a table that adjusts injector pulse width to battery voltage. So my a/f ratio basically remains the same except the alternator is just a pulley. As you can see, it makes quite a difference. From what I understand newer/modern vehicles modulate the alternator based on battery level. This is a performance/fuel economy feature.




Great!! I'll look at it tonight!

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-08-2019 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias: Anyway, the point of this is yes - there is plenty of reason to still want to create performance parts for the old v6/60.


Thanks Lou! I'm glad someone agrees with me and also to the rest of the possy!

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Report this Post03-08-2019 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 88FingersClick Here to Email 88FingersSend a Private Message to 88FingersEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Always great watching you race Lou! Keeping the Fiero GT legacy alive. Rock on my friend!!

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-08-2019 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I enjoyed when you crushed that Stealth Twin Turbo AWD piece of crap!!!!

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Report this Post03-09-2019 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I learned not to be a hater. The owner is a great guy and very humble. I believe he's only putting down about ~500. The 2011 WRX I raced afterwards that won the event dyno'd 287rwhp on a local Mustang dyno known as 'the heartbreaker' because it reads 15% below a dynojet. So that puts him in the 320-330 rwhp range. Again, really nice kid. All us regular run the 100 treadwear rated tires. Some us Nitto NT01's. You have to realize - nobody is "stock" there. The twin turbo v8 AMG is the closest thing to stock but even he upgraded his tires at the very least...

I was playing with tire pressures that day, that's why I spun out in turn 4 against the WRX...plus I was pushing it hard all the way thru because I know how good he is...

In fact if you watch the Labor Day video, the driver of the white EVO is who was driving my 3.4 in the Nutcracker video. His EVO dynos in the 800 hp range but he detunes it to 600 for this track. He does a lot of 1/4 mile events... If you listen to the announcer, his name is Kenny Kline...
here's a 9.3 run he did in 2016...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 03-09-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-09-2019 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Those races look like fun!! I'll see if they do that here!

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La fiera
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Report this Post04-19-2019 02:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

While doing the last check ups to take my car to the dyno I seat in the car, primed the fuel system,
pushed the clutch pedal to start the motor and the pedal is slopy! I lost clutch hydraulics!
There is a puddle of blue fluid on the floor.

After a quick inspection I see that the fitting I got from Thelin is wet.
Well, to make a story short, the braze that joints the stock fitting to the
90 degree pipe failed. So, I had to cancel the session!!
That's the price we pay when individuals design mediocre parts and don't
do any R&D of extensive testing before offering them to the public.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.


After all the #%$&^&^%@! to Mr. Thelin I calmed down and remembered I had
a solution that somehow I forgot!

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
I have bought Fiero Guru's adapter a while ago! Installation was a breeze and now
I'm very confident that I'll never had the same problem with Guru's part.
The craftmaship is impecable compared to the backyard part made by Thelin!
And I'm not asking for my money back or another part in exchage.

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Report this Post04-19-2019 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Stinks about the part, however you can re-braze it to seal it up. Granted that is not the answer to the bigger problem. Maybe send it back to get a new one?

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Will
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Report this Post04-21-2019 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mcl-139160




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La fiera
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Report this Post04-21-2019 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

BAM!! WIll to the rescue!!

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La fiera
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Report this Post04-28-2019 09:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




I took the car out yesterday for some tuning and some stress relese drifting
after waiting 2 weeks for the wheels to get powder coated. It looks
better than the black. I'm just tired of everyone having blacked out cars and wheels!!
So the theme of the car will be black and gold. The Superchrome powder coat wheels really stands out!
My wife loves them! Happy wife, happy Fiero owner!
Tuning is coming along very well!! Sorry guys, my GoPro isn't working.

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-17-2019 11:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://youtu.be/qaDRamsYUtY

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Spadesluck
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Report this Post05-18-2019 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I would agree the wheels look good.

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-19-2019 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

The goal of 250 RWHP from a 3.4L pr engine is a very aggressive one. I've built these engines and even with a turbo have not reached this goal. You can improve the performance but the engine breathes poorly. With loads of boost like 20 psi you might reach your goal but N/A I say no way.




277WHP @ 6000RPM
300WTQ @ 4500RPM

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Report this Post05-19-2019 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: I've built these engines and even with a turbo have not reached this goal.

You need to up your game, homie!

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 05-19-2019).]

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Report this Post05-19-2019 03:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Very Awesome!

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lou_dias
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Report this Post05-19-2019 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

But but but but but but but but but but but didn't the trolls tell you IRON HEADS DON'T FLOW!

LMFAO!

For the love of god don't use a Dynojet dyno or the trolls will really poop their panties!

Congrats Rei !!!

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-19-2019 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:

Very Awesome!


No, you have to hear this! This is awesome!

https://youtu.be/qaDRamsYUtY

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-19-2019 10:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

But but but but but but but but but but but didn't the trolls tell you IRON HEADS DON'T FLOW!

LMFAO!

For the love of god don't use a Dynojet dyno or the trolls will really poop their panties!

Congrats Rei !!!


Thank you Lou!
I quoted Dennis not to put him down or anything like that.
I did it just to show that we should think before we speak.
I set a goal for myself and limited myself to iron heads.
It took me a year or so but I did not give up. I had comitted myself in public to this challenge
and I read, researched, brainstormed and analized a lot of things that suppousebly didn't make sense
scientifically or mathematically but suddenly made sense when applicable at different parameters.
These things made sense to a down to earth person, like the average guys like you and I, but for
the intelligent scientists-like thinking people it was just impossible because science and math said so.
And that when I said screw science and math, I'm going with my gut! There you have it!

You and I have heard thousands of times that "iron heads don't flow".
But why don't they flow?
because mathematically they don't?
Is it because there is a replacement aluminum head that outflow the iron head?
No, its because no one has ever taken the time and effort to disproof this theory.
The internet made a lot of individuals inteligent but the reality is that it made them dumb.
But dumb how? Well, dumb in the sense that they are repeating what other people said and
they never trully had taken the time to proof otherwise.

So, I can say that Lou was right on the iron head theory. They flow, as much and even more
than the aluminum couterparts when done properly.

One more thing, you dont need a roller cam to make power! Sorry Lou.

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Report this Post05-20-2019 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
One more thing, you dont need a roller cam to make power! Sorry Lou.


That's it! Now we are fighting! ;-)

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-20-2019 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://youtu.be/DxewiTeUMlk

This guy has big roller cam, ported and polished aluminum heads and a nice ITB set up!

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Report this Post05-21-2019 12:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
No, you have to hear this! This is awesome!

https://youtu.be/qaDRamsYUtY


That does sound mean. Seems to rev up fast as well. Now throw a turbo in it!

[This message has been edited by Spadesluck (edited 05-21-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post05-21-2019 10:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Spadesluck:


That does sound mean. Seems to rev up fast as well. Now throw a turbo in it!



That would be too easy!!
I've got some other prototype stuff that I'm working on for the other engine which I'll be testing on this one. It'll be awesome if I hit the 300+whp!

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Report this Post05-21-2019 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
It'll be awesome if I hit the 300+whp!

Just find a Dynojet dyno instead of a Mustang dyno...

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La fiera
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From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


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Report this Post05-21-2019 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

Just find a Dynojet dyno instead of a Mustang dyno...


Nah, I want to make the haters suffer so I'll keep the Mustang!

In another note, the peak numbers were good for me but what really impressed me was the area under the curve power gained
at this last tuning session compared to one before this one when I posted the 245whp dyno sheet.
Look at this hand made page,
left column is dyno before this one, the middle column is this dyno session and the last column is the gain from the first one to this last session.
This I can really feel on the seat of my pants!

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.

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La fiera
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Posts: 1375
From: Mooresville, NC
Registered: Jun 2008


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Report this Post05-23-2019 07:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

This are the valves in this motor. I don't think I showed them before but I found this picture.
The two outer are the stock 1.72int and 1.42exh and in the middle the Chromoly 1.8int and 1.5exh.

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