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250 WHP Supernatural 3.4 Build by La fiera
Started on: 10-07-2017 11:04 PM
Replies: 458 (13720 views)
Last post by: Spadesluck on 05-11-2020 09:59 PM
La fiera
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Report this Post01-27-2020 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Blacktree:

And that's with a Rube Goldberg valvetrain.

There's a guy on the 60degreeV6 forum revving his engine to 8000+ RPM in his race car. Look for username veekuusi. He also has a YouTube channel (also named veekuusi).


I've seen this guy's build but he screwd himself on the intake. Way too much plenum volumve vs runner lenght and width. He had too much area and too little lenght for that displacement, specially when he was allowed only -2 barrells per cylinders amount. He should've been in the 300-315WHP @ 8000rpms with that bore and stroke combo.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 01-28-2020).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-13-2020 08:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://youtu.be/ppTIEd8YCcs

Accelerated plans due to this!
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-13-2020 10:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think you used too much NOS:
https://youtu.be/pB-bN-RkJLM?t=52

The same weekend that I finished installing a MegaSquirt 2 in my previous 2.8 V6 Fiero (original stock engine), I drove 180 miles to the military base where I spent my Mondays-Fridays.

That Fiero saw full daily driver Monday-Friday duty right away, at the same time as I was building up my tune from scratch.

Driving the car in the morning following a cold start (lets say 50°F), there were a lot of pops and bangs for the first month or two until I started figuring things out. Nothing broke though... but your fabricated intake looks more delicate than the stock piece.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-13-2020).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-13-2020 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




I'll fix that problem with this part and also getting in the habit of having the throttle opened a bit at least at the first couple seconds of hitting the start button.
E85 also comes with its own oxygen so I believe that was also part of the problem.

The support from MS told me that that happens sometimes because when powering up the ECU it triggers the coils on re boot.
The problem is more pronounced since I now have DIS and E85, before with the distributor and gasoline it was less likely to happen.
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post02-13-2020 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
The support from MS told me that that happens sometimes because when powering up the ECU it triggers the coils on re boot.
The problem is more pronounced since I now have DIS and E85, before with the distributor and gasoline it was less likely to happen.


I know that with default settings, the fuel injectors give a priming pulse on key-on. This can be disabled if you wish by setting the priming pulse to zero.

I never heard that about the ignition coil(s). I'm going to check that on my car, with a spark plug outside of the engine where I can see it, and a friend turning the the key on/off.

If what you're saying is true, that's a serious flaw. If the engine is running at WOT while the CPU resets, then a spark could occur at a not-so-good part of the engine cycle, which could break things. I'm thinking of a scenario where a poor +12V power connection causes a power loss just long enough to trigger a CPU reset.

[This message has been edited by pmbrunelle (edited 02-13-2020).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post02-14-2020 09:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:


I know that with default settings, the fuel injectors give a priming pulse on key-on. This can be disabled if you wish by setting the priming pulse to zero.

I never heard that about the ignition coil(s). I'm going to check that on my car, with a spark plug outside of the engine where I can see it, and a friend turning the the key on/off.

If what you're saying is true, that's a serious flaw. If the engine is running at WOT while the CPU resets, then a spark could occur at a not-so-good part of the engine cycle, which could break things. I'm thinking of a scenario where a poor +12V power connection causes a power loss just long enough to trigger a CPU reset.



You are absolutely right! But besides this mishap I've never had any other problems while the engine running.
But just to clarify the misfire happened when I hit the START botton, not when I re set the ECU. The ECU was already powered up and I took a while to start the car.
I will check the priming like you suggest. I don't remember if I have the priming off after the engine is warmed.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 02-14-2020).]

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lou_dias
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Report this Post02-14-2020 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know you are trying to save weight but that does look like it's too thin...

As for a solution...just add a blow-off valve.
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La fiera
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Report this Post02-15-2020 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

I know you are trying to save weight but that does look like it's too thin...

As for a solution...just add a blow-off valve.


You know, that was the first thing that came to my mind Lou!

I wanted to take the manifold out yesterday but wasn't feeling so well, It turns out I got type A Flu!
So I'll be out for a couple of days.
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Report this Post02-29-2020 11:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I checked my car today for the supposed spark-on-boot behaviour, and I didn't see it.

I connected a spark plug to the coil wire, and I placed it such that it was visible from inside the cabin. I then cycled the key on-off (5 cycles). I did not observe any sparks. It was quite dark in the garage at the time.

I don't think we can generalise my results to all MS installs; each user should check this on his own setup.
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La fiera
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Report this Post03-01-2020 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I checked my car today for the supposed spark-on-boot behaviour, and I didn't see it.

I connected a spark plug to the coil wire, and I placed it such that it was visible from inside the cabin. I then cycled the key on-off (5 cycles). I did not observe any sparks. It was quite dark in the garage at the time.

I don't think we can generalise my results to all MS installs; each user should check this on his own setup.


I was thinking; my injectors are high up in the runners and E85 has its own oxygen and that makes a big problem.
All it takes is to have some residual fuel in the runners and an intake valve open.
In my case, I hit the start button, the spark plug fire (waste spark) and the residual fuel in the runners ignited. Having the TB closed and the explosion expanding without a way out,
the manifold weld gave out due to the energy of the explosion. I never had this problem with non-oxygenated fuels, I switched to E85 I started backfires here and there, but this one was severe.

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-01-2020 12:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

I checked my car today for the supposed spark-on-boot behaviour, and I didn't see it.

I connected a spark plug to the coil wire, and I placed it such that it was visible from inside the cabin. I then cycled the key on-off (5 cycles). I did not observe any sparks. It was quite dark in the garage at the time.

I don't think we can generalise my results to all MS installs; each user should check this on his own setup.


I was thinking; my injectors are high up in the runners and E85 has its own oxygen and that makes a big problem.
All it takes is to have some residual fuel in the runners and an intake valve open.
In my case, I hit the start button, the spark plug fire (waste spark) and the residual fuel in the runners are ignited by the combusting fuel in the chamber.
Having the TB closed and the explosion expanding without a way out, the manifold weld gave out due to the energy of the explosion.
I never had this problem with non-oxygenated fuels, I switched to E85 and I started to have backfires here and there, but this one was severe.
Another thing, because of the duration of the camshaft I run much more advanced timing to keep the idle/low end throttle response crispy.

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La fiera
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Report this Post03-20-2020 11:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 03-20-2020).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post04-24-2020 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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La fiera
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Report this Post05-10-2020 11:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://youtu.be/OeLuX11NuG0

TR4 Intake test. The sound is bad ass!!
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pmbrunelle
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Report this Post05-11-2020 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for pmbrunelleClick Here to Email pmbrunelleSend a Private Message to pmbrunelleEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
At 6:00 your car sounds like an old F1 car!

Your VE table is interesting... it shows a relatively "normal" engine that then suddenly "wakes up" at about 3000 RPM (we don't see the numbers at the bottom of the screen).

I guess the piston still sucks in a bunch of air at low RPM, but then whatever it swallowed comes right back out before the intake valve closes. Something like that?


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La fiera
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Report this Post05-11-2020 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by pmbrunelle:

At 6:00 your car sounds like an old F1 car!




That's exactly the sound I was looking for and the only way to get it was with true dual pipes. My favorite F1 engine sound
is from the Matra V12 from the 70's and 80's used by Ligier.
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Report this Post05-11-2020 02:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It did sound amazing when you were coming back!
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La fiera
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Report this Post05-11-2020 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

It did sound amazing when you were coming back!


That's because when I left I didn't go over 50% throttle. After 50% the secondaries opens and that is
when she screams. My AFR coming up that hill at WOT was over 16 and I have it target it at 12.2. So, it wants lots of fuel.
But yes, it sounds like an old Cosworth DFV F1 engine from the70's and I love it!

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Report this Post05-11-2020 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpadesluckSend a Private Message to SpadesluckEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That looks like an ice chest sitting up there....love it! That does sound amazing, even crazier it is only a 3.4L!
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