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250 WHP Supernatural 3.4 Build by La fiera
Started on: 10-07-2017 11:04 PM
Replies: 458 (13720 views)
Last post by: Spadesluck on 05-11-2020 09:59 PM
Will
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Report this Post12-24-2019 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Holy crap! Is that forum still in existence? Last time I checked, it looked like a lot of dead links, and only a few recent posts.

There's a guy in AZ who has one that he is planning to push to 8K+. Lots of mods, though.



I have a billet 3" stroke crank for sale if he wants it
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ericjon262
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Report this Post12-24-2019 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

Holy crap! Is that forum still in existence? Last time I checked, it looked like a lot of dead links, and only a few recent posts.



it does, I'm one of only a small handful of people who still post there, facebook stripped all of the users away. Same for many of the forums that used to have a large following with hundreds of posts per day.

------------------
"I am not what you so glibly call to be a civilized man. I have broken with society for reasons which I alone am able to appreciate. I am therefore not subject to it's stupid laws, and I ask you to never allude to them in my presence again."

"The day I tried to live, I stole a thousand beggars' change and gave it to the rich."
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119122.html

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La fiera
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Report this Post12-24-2019 09:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

By efficiency, I'm meaning that a N* like Will's probably burns less fuel to make similar power. it probably also has a ton more room to grow compared to your 3.4



Totally agree with you!

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Report this Post12-25-2019 10:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
Totally agree with you!

I love how your engine is being compared to N*s and 3800SC's now instead of the swap that never made sense to me 3400...
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Report this Post12-25-2019 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
edit:

not going to feed a troll.

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 12-25-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post12-25-2019 07:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

A Dynojet drum has a known moment of inertia. A power source that can change that drum's RPM from X1 to X2 in Y time makes (X2^2-X1^2)/Y power. This is physics. Any tool that measures that same power source at the same rate of change of RPM and produces a different number is WRONG. There are LOT of ways a Mustang dyno can produce radically different results than a Dynojet.



Yep you are right Will but that test was Dynojet sponsored. But to get that out of the way I took my 2.8 to both dynos and look what happened.


Dynojet dyno


Mustang dyno

Exactly the same!

But like you said, I use dynos as a tool to measure my improvements not to brag.
I use the comparison with your N* as a reference of what an individual can achieve with any engine.
I know that if you make yours as radical as mine you'll be in almost at the 500WHP N/A because it has the hardware to achieve that.
Through your build I've admired the skills you have to make parts. For example, I don't have the machinery or the knowledge to
make a Quater Master clutch set fit in my engine (my dream) but I know that's beyond me, and you did it and I admire that.

So what I'm trying to say is that if you felt that I was putting you down in any way by comparing my engine to yours that was not the case.
And if you felt that way I owe you an apology, you are my best critic!
I'm looking forward to see your N* on the dragstrip and not brake more axles like me!
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La fiera
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Report this Post12-25-2019 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by claude dalpe:

You know La Fiera I love the way you have added so much power to an 3.4 and you have proven it many times congratulations!

The points I want to bring is: Engine reliability, not sure how many km this 3.4 will endure,
Fuel consumption = Ouff ...

Of course, your goal is not to make it an everyday car.

I made a swap in my fiero 87 with a 3.5L Pontiac G6 2005 LX9 5 speed and I have another fiero 86 with a 3.8SC automatic, both with very few modifications.
The 2 engines run like clocks with very good performance and a good fuel consumption and a very good reliability.

We have 2 different thought.
And for finish your 3.4 since you converted it to the E85 I really don't like is rough idle.

Merry christmas everybody and La fiera continues to surprise us with some new modifications on the future 3.7 L


Its nice to see international fans Claude!
Fuel comsumption I don't care, its a Time Attack Racing car. More gas means more power!

Reliability, better than any stock 3.4 or any other stock GM engine at this power level because I improved things the factory missed because of budget.

The Idle roughness is not because of the E85, its because of the aggresiveness of the camshaft. Here where I live in the south they call that Lickin'!

Thanks for the support Claude!

[This message has been edited by La fiera (edited 12-25-2019).]

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Report this Post12-26-2019 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FrenchrafeClick Here to Email FrenchrafeSend a Private Message to FrenchrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've seen one of your videos and your car looks and sounds radical!
Very well built engine.
Like to know what wheels and tyres you are using?
Regards, Rafe

------------------
'87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. Sticky tyres. Driven hard!

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Report this Post12-26-2019 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by ericjon262:

edit:

not going to feed a troll.

So you are fasting for the holidays? Best of luck!
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claude dalpe
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Report this Post12-26-2019 12:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for claude dalpeClick Here to Email claude dalpeSend a Private Message to claude dalpeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just to clarify my point for the Idle roughness.

I said: And for finish your 3.4 since you converted it to the E85 I really don't like is rough Idle:
You replied: The Idle roughness is not because of the E85, its because of the aggresiveness of the camshaft. Here where I live in the south they call that Lickin '!

I watched the 2 videos again: https://youtu.be/qaDRamsYUtY
You are going to the dyno session and your Idle is really sweeter than on the other video: https://youtu.be/CUCOC4cxjo8

Did you change anything other than the coil pack and the E85 between the 2 videos.

In the future can you explain more your session of tuning please I'd appreciate lot's.

[This message has been edited by claude dalpe (edited 12-26-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post12-26-2019 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by claude dalpe:

Just to clarify my point for the Idle roughness.

I said: And for finish your 3.4 since you converted it to the E85 I really don't like is rough Idle:
You replied: The Idle roughness is not because of the E85, its because of the aggresiveness of the camshaft. Here where I live in the south they call that Lickin '!

I watched the 2 videos again: https://youtu.be/qaDRamsYUtY
You are going to the dyno session and your Idle is really sweeter than on the other video: https://youtu.be/CUCOC4cxjo8

Did you change anything other than the coil pack and the E85 between the 2 videos.

In the future can you explain more your session of tuning please I'd appreciate lot's.



Thanks for the advice Claude! I'll take that into consideration in future videos!
You have a PM!

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Will
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Report this Post12-27-2019 09:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


Yep you are right Will but that test was Dynojet sponsored. But to get that out of the way I took my 2.8 to both dynos and look what happened.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gim...496fdba01a8ae897.png
Dynojet dyno

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gim...33657a56c6539b6f.jpg
Mustang dyno

Exactly the same!

But like you said, I use dynos as a tool to measure my improvements not to brag.
I use the comparison with your N* as a reference of what an individual can achieve with any engine.
I know that if you make yours as radical as mine you'll be in almost at the 500WHP N/A because it has the hardware to achieve that.
Through your build I've admired the skills you have to make parts. For example, I don't have the machinery or the knowledge to
make a Quater Master clutch set fit in my engine (my dream) but I know that's beyond me, and you did it and I admire that.

So what I'm trying to say is that if you felt that I was putting you down in any way by comparing my engine to yours that was not the case.
And if you felt that way I owe you an apology, you are my best critic!
I'm looking forward to see your N* on the dragstrip and not brake more axles like me!


Ok, I know you're crazy, but didn't quite think you were crazy in the way of comparing a 3.4 to a Northstar. Thanks! I enjoy being a critic

I don't doubt that a Mustang dyno can be made to match a DynoJet chart... but who actually takes the time to dial in the variables to do that? Motor Trend's C8 Corvette dyno shows how easy it is to screw up with a Mustang, even though other vehicles run that same day had more realistic results.

I'll sell you a flywheel once I get my fitment figured out

With all your lightweighting effort, I'm a little surprised you haven't picked up one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163924555048

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-27-2019).]

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m0sh_man
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quote
Originally posted by Will:


Ok, I know you're crazy, but didn't quite think you were crazy in the way of comparing a 3.4 to a Northstar. Thanks! I enjoy being a critic

I don't doubt that a Mustang dyno can be made to match a DynoJet chart... but who actually takes the time to dial in the variables to do that? Motor Trend's C8 Corvette dyno shows how easy it is to screw up with a Mustang, even though other vehicles run that same day had more realistic results.

I'll sell you a flywheel once I get my fitment figured out

With all your lightweighting effort, I'm a little surprised you haven't picked up one of these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163924555048




there used to be a racing application of aluminum heads that were identical castings of the fiero heads as well, i havent seen them in years though.

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Will
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Report this Post12-27-2019 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:


there used to be a racing application of aluminum heads that were identical castings of the fiero heads as well, i havent seen them in years though.


I'd be more interested in the Potter castings, as those were a from-scratch design for racing... a pair of raw castings was advertised on Facebook within the last few weeks.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-27-2019).]

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Report this Post12-27-2019 07:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by m0sh_man:

there used to be a racing application of aluminum heads that were identical castings of the fiero heads as well, i havent seen them in years though.


These?

Click me!







[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-28-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post12-27-2019 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/163924555048





WOW!!!!! I didn't know that existed! That's a unicorn!

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Report this Post12-28-2019 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:
WOW!!!!! I didn't know that existed! That's a unicorn!

I almost bought one of those 10+ years ago but when I read the specs, it could only be bored to about 3.2L ...
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Report this Post12-28-2019 04:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FrenchrafeClick Here to Email FrenchrafeSend a Private Message to FrenchrafeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Even at 2.8L, these aluminium blocks were pulling 300HP!
Who cares if they couldn't be overbored that much.

If this had been easier to get hold of in Europe (availability, import duties etc…), I would have gone down this route.
I would have prefered this solution to going 3800. Much easier to claim originality with the authorities, and keep within the limited (nearly no tolerence) modifications allowed here.

As La Fiera says: this is a unicorn engine!!

------------------
'87 Fiero GT. 3800 turbo. Sticky tyres. Driven hard!

[This message has been edited by Frenchrafe (edited 12-28-2019).]

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jdv
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Report this Post12-28-2019 10:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hay lets put crappy iron heads on an aluminum block and we will have a killer v6 just like the cadillac 4.9.
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La fiera
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Report this Post12-28-2019 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jdv:

Hay lets put crappy iron heads on an aluminum block and we will have a killer v6 just like the cadillac 4.9.


If i get that block I'd do exaclty that!

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Report this Post12-28-2019 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jdvClick Here to Email jdvSend a Private Message to jdvEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
La fiera nice build.I had a stock 3500 and that was fun but nothing like that beast.
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Report this Post12-30-2019 08:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


These?

Click me!











Actually, those might be the Potter castings. The aluminum versions of the Fiero heads were production prototypes; those are... not.
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Will
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Report this Post12-30-2019 08:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

13232 posts
Member since Jun 2000
 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


WOW!!!!! I didn't know that existed! That's a unicorn!


They're not exactly common, but I think I see one for sale about every year.

 
quote
Originally posted by La fiera:


If i get that block I'd do exaclty that!



If you get it, treat the exposed surfaces with Cerakote MC-5100 to keep it pretty and shiny.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-30-2019).]

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La fiera
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Report this Post12-30-2019 11:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Before I had the fuel pressure dropped from 50psi to 0 within 4 seconds after priming the system. I replaced the fuel pump with a Walbro 480lph and a new FPR.
This picture was taken 15 minutes after priming the system. We are good now! It seems that the check valve in the pump was bad.
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Report this Post12-31-2019 03:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

I almost bought one of those 10+ years ago but when I read the specs, it could only be bored to about 3.2L ...


It should be good for at least a 92mm bore. I'm pretty sure that's what GM calls out as the max bore. It could probably go to 94mm if you stay naturally aspirated and be careful that the head gasket fire ring still falls on the end of the liner.
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Report this Post01-03-2020 01:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
It should be good for at least a 92mm bore. I'm pretty sure that's what GM calls out as the max bore. It could probably go to 94mm if you stay naturally aspirated and be careful that the head gasket fire ring still falls on the end of the liner.

My next engine will use a 97mm bore. ;-)
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Report this Post01-04-2020 03:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

My next engine will use a 97mm bore. ;-)


If I could do that with the aluminum block, I'd already have built one. Why couldn't they have siamesed the liners?

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-04-2020).]

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Report this Post01-05-2020 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
If I could do that with the aluminum block, I'd already have built one. Why couldn't they have siamesed the liners?

IDK, but the question I want answered is: having seen a 3500VVT block in person - I wonder if that 3.37" stroke crank will bolt onto a 3400 block...

The blocks don't look that different at all.
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Report this Post01-05-2020 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 3900VVT (LZ9) has the same 84mm stroke as the 3100, 3400 & 3500 LX9.
The 3500VVT (LZ4) has a 75mm stroke, but so does a 2.8.

The VVT engines upsized the rod journals to the 4.3 V6 size at 2.25".
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Report this Post01-05-2020 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

The 3900VVT (LZ9) has the same 84mm stroke as the 3100, 3400 & 3500 LX9.
The 3500VVT (LZ4) has a 75mm stroke, but so does a 2.8.

The VVT engines upsized the rod journals to the 4.3 V6 size at 2.25".


How about the mains, are they the same as the V6 60*?

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Report this Post01-06-2020 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As far as I know, the mains are still the same size. I don't recall reading anything about that dimension changing.
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Report this Post01-06-2020 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Argh! My fault. It's the LFX that uses a 3.37" (85.6mm) stroke...to help it achieve 3.6ish liters... I have one in my truck (Colorado) but engine covers prevent me from getting a good look at the block.

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 01-06-2020).]

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Report this Post01-06-2020 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

IDK, but the question I want answered is: having seen a 3500VVT block in person - I wonder if that 3.37" stroke crank will bolt onto a 3400 block...

The blocks don't look that different at all.


I guess you don't want a 3" stroke crank, then...
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Report this Post01-06-2020 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
I guess you don't want a 3" stroke crank, then...

The 2.8 crank? Uh no.

Though I am picking up a Saab F40 6-speed from a 2.8 turbo... It's just a mini-LFX right? LOL
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Report this Post01-06-2020 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for StreetRod4Send a Private Message to StreetRod4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


I'd be more interested in the Potter castings, as those were a from-scratch design for racing... a pair of raw castings was advertised on Facebook within the last few weeks.



That would be me 😁
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Will
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Report this Post01-06-2020 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by lou_dias:

The 2.8 crank? Uh no.

Though I am picking up a Saab F40 6-speed from a 2.8 turbo... It's just a mini-LFX right? LOL


Well... it's a billet crank from the big time V6/60 racing days
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Will
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Report this Post01-07-2020 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by StreetRod4:


That would be me 😁


Oh, snazzy.... Is that your eBay auction linked above as well?
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ericjon262
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Report this Post01-18-2020 01:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by lou_dias:

IDK, but the question I want answered is: having seen a 3500VVT block in person - I wonder if that 3.37" stroke crank will bolt onto a 3400 block...

The blocks don't look that different at all.


here in a 3.4 DOHC

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/000143-11.html

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FieroWannaBe
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Report this Post01-18-2020 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroWannaBeClick Here to Email FieroWannaBeSend a Private Message to FieroWannaBeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by La fiera:


Yep you are right Will but that test was Dynojet sponsored. But to get that out of the way I took my 2.8 to both dynos and look what happened.

Dynojet dyno

Mustang dyno

Exactly the same!

But like you said, I use dynos as a tool to measure my improvements not to brag.


I can tell you guys, at Superflow, our chassis dyno has a DynoJet correction factor, because of how their software creates power numbers, its there to help the shop owners create consistency for their customers.
Dyno's are a just a measurement tool, and it is up to the user to apply them correctly to gain the results they're after. No manufacturer that I am aware locks the calibrations up so they are set to some permanent standard, all of them can be manipulated by someone who knows enough, or is ignorant enough to just go after numbers.
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La fiera
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Report this Post01-27-2020 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for La fieraSend a Private Message to La fieraEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by claude dalpe:

Merry christmas everybody and La fiera continues to surprise us with some new modifications on the future 3.7 L


Thanks for the complements and there's more to come!
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