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3.6 liter High Feature I a Fiero by Daryl M
Started on: 09-07-2016 07:16 PM
Replies: 145 (3917 views)
Last post by: Daryl M on 01-24-2019 01:06 AM
Will
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Report this Post01-08-2019 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Rickady88GT the 2.8 is a much earlier model than the LFX. The LFX requires a different ECM. Besides, the LFX came in Camaros with manual tranny's.



The 2.8 Saab engine came with manual transmission also.
However, that's a Bosch rather than Delphi ECM and will be different to adapt than the Camaro unit.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post01-08-2019 12:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


The 2.8 Saab engine came with manual transmission also.
However, that's a Bosch rather than Delphi ECM and will be different to adapt than the Camaro unit.


It gets more complicated as more donor vehicle parts are mixed and matched. Then add on top of that aftermarket or custom parts AND a custom tune. It could be a lot of work getting all the bugs worked out. I am not against mixing and matching, I just think that my skills limit me to keep as many factory assemblies as possible. For example, I want a High Feature V6 with a manual transmission, that means I look for a HF V6 that came from the factory with a manual. That just seems the easiest way to do it, and fewer issues. BUT, I want to convert my automatic transmission to a manual in my Fiero that already has an LS4 that never had a manual option, so I am forced to mix and match to get what I want.
In the end it depends on how much time, money and effort you want to spend but more importantly is the goal you want to achieve. Knowing exactly what you want is just as important because that will guide your research.

[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 01-08-2019).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-09-2019 12:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rickady88GT, not as bad as you are making it out to be. 2012 Camaro had an LFX with a manual transmission. The clutch is a bolt in from the Saab 9-3 Aero. I am almost done with the wiring changes and have had few problems. Guess I won't know for certain until I get to the point where the key is turned, but I am an optimist.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post01-09-2019 01:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Rickady88GT, not as bad as you are making it out to be. 2012 Camaro had an LFX with a manual transmission. The clutch is a bolt in from the Saab 9-3 Aero. I am almost done with the wiring changes and have had few problems. Guess I won't know for certain until I get to the point where the key is turned, but I am an optimist.

Cool. I look forward to seeing video and pictures.

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Will
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Report this Post01-09-2019 01:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


It gets more complicated as more donor vehicle parts are mixed and matched. Then add on top of that aftermarket or custom parts AND a custom tune. It could be a lot of work getting all the bugs worked out. I am not against mixing and matching, I just think that my skills limit me to keep as many factory assemblies as possible. For example, I want a High Feature V6 with a manual transmission, that means I look for a HF V6 that came from the factory with a manual. That just seems the easiest way to do it, and fewer issues. BUT, I want to convert my automatic transmission to a manual in my Fiero that already has an LS4 that never had a manual option, so I am forced to mix and match to get what I want.
In the end it depends on how much time, money and effort you want to spend but more importantly is the goal you want to achieve. Knowing exactly what you want is just as important because that will guide your research.



The 2.8 *IS* a high feature V6.
I've been musing for years that it would be fun to bolt the Saab turbo system up to an LLT... although with a bigger turbo, of course.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-09-2019 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

If you want to go turbo, do twin turbos from another high feature. Also, the Saab high feature was port injected. The LLT and later are direct injected.

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 01-09-2019).]

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Will
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Report this Post01-09-2019 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The later twin turbo V6's use integrated exhaust manifolds and the turbos bolt directly to the cylinder heads. Just use the whole pullout engine in that case.

The Saab manifolds should bolt right up to the LLT and the crossover pipe will most likely work too... just needs a bigger turbo. Although I don't know where the HPFP is on an LLT right off and how it would relate to the crossover pipe.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 01-09-2019).]

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post01-09-2019 05:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
The 2.8 *IS* a high feature V6.
I've been musing for years that it would be fun to bolt the Saab turbo system up to an LLT... although with a bigger turbo, of course.


Do twins Will, that's what I'm planning for the CTS. I'm collecting hardware for the build now and sizing things up with the intent to mount the the turbos up high for gravity oil return instead of the scavenge pump most of the turbo Camaros are using along with low mounted turbos, as well as leaving room for catalytic converters.

The turbos are pretty compact next to one exhaust manifold, GT2860s with .86 turbines and ~330 hp rating. Not expecting to have it done by the end of the year but would at least like to have it completed on the engine stand. The aftermarket supercharged camaros are achieving 400+ hp at the wheels, the turbocharged versions are doing even more except with a lot more torque and using less boost pressure, best dyno sheet I've seen was 500 hp and 475 ft-lbs at 11 psi. I'm not aiming that high but, would like to reel in the 0-60 times from 6 sec to the 4 sec range with the 6 speed auto. It already has 11.3:1 compression so no engine modifications are necessary to increase it.



[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 01-09-2019).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-09-2019 09:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


I could be wrong but I thought that the 2.8HF was avaliable with the 6 speed manual. Just use that PCM.


That's the drivetrain that bmwguru installed in his car. He ended up using the AEM(?) PCM. Couldn't get the stocker to do what he wanted.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-09-2019 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
That's the drivetrain that bmwguru installed in his car. He ended up using the AEM(?) PCM. Couldn't get the stocker to do what he wanted.


Sorry in advance Steve... this just reminded me of a phrase that is a applicable to that comment. "just another Saab story"

On a more serious note, that was 6 years ago and there are now more mainstream high feature applications and with that comes more tuning support - especially from the Camaro platform.

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Rickady88GT
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Report this Post01-11-2019 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


That's the drivetrain that bmwguru installed in his car. He ended up using the AEM(?) PCM. Couldn't get the stocker to do what he wanted.


I can think of some good reasons to use the newer engines over the older ones, but I understand and agree with mixing the drive train like a fine recipe but it will take a little more work and research, and in the end may need significant troubleshooting to eliminate bugs.

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-11-2019 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:


Sorry in advance Steve... this just reminded me of a phrase that is a applicable to that comment. "just another Saab story"

On a more serious note, that was 6 years ago and there are now more mainstream high feature applications and with that comes more tuning support - especially from the Camaro platform.




At one point, I was considering an LFX swap, with an "adapted" 5 speed (F23 or HTOB Getrag) similar to what Mender is doing, using a FWD LFX and a PCM/tune from a manual trans Camaro.
But, again, it's down to my inability to fabricate.

Probably going to do the HTOB Getrag, bolted to a 3900. That should be nearly a bolt-in, as far as it goes.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-12-2019 12:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Raydar, you don't weld?

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 01-12-2019).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post01-12-2019 08:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Nope.

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wftb
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Report this Post01-12-2019 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbClick Here to Email wftbSend a Private Message to wftbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Welding is easy. The hard part is shelling out a thousand or so for a machine that makes welding easy.

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Will
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Report this Post01-12-2019 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by wftb:

Welding is easy. The hard part is shelling out a thousand or so for a machine that makes welding easy.


Even that's easy, considering the alternative is shelling out $200 for a machine that makes welding hard

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-13-2019 02:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am definitely not a welder, but I have managed to do all of my fabrication so far with relatively cheap equipment from Harbor freight. Heck, I even stick welded the exhaust. The point is if I can do it, anyone can.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post01-13-2019 10:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I learned how to weld on a 110V Craftsman flux core welder. Like everything, it took a lot of practice to get halfway good. I eventually upgraded to a 220V Lincoln ProMig 175 for about $500 (new on sale) and switched to using shielding gas vs. flux core and it made a world of difference. I would never go back to a 110V welder or using flux core unless I was doing something that required it... it just makes welding harder. The more you weld, the better you get, and a better welder really improves your results and flexibility.

By enhancing your skills and equipment (mechanical, fabrication, electrical, and ECM tuning), you significantly increase the types of swaps you can accomplish.

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mender
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Report this Post01-14-2019 01:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for menderSend a Private Message to menderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

I learned how to weld on a 110V Craftsman flux core welder. Like everything, it took a lot of practice to get halfway good. I eventually upgraded to a 220V Lincoln ProMig 175 for about $500 (new on sale) and switched to using shielding gas vs. flux core and it made a world of difference. I would never go back to a 110V welder or using flux core unless I was doing something that required it... it just makes welding harder. The more you weld, the better you get, and a better welder really improves your results and flexibility.

By enhancing your skills and equipment (mechanical, fabrication, electrical, and ECM tuning), you significantly increase the types of swaps you can accomplish.

Using a flux core 110 volt welder is like using a screwdriver as a chisel: it works but the proper tool works so much better.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post01-21-2019 07:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mender:

Using a flux core 110 volt welder is like using a screwdriver as a chisel: it works but the proper tool works so much better.


My experience has shown that flux core is good for the rough work of making brackets, mounts etc. Flux welds leave a lot of splatter and they are difficult to master. .If you want to do clean pretty welds as on a custom exhaust the gas mig is the ticket. Hobart makes some pretty good mig welders. Tig is also great but those welders tend to cost more.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, P-log Manifold, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, Champion Radiator, S10 Brake Booster, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-21-2019).]

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Report this Post01-22-2019 10:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

I am definitely not a welder, but I have managed to do all of my fabrication so far with relatively cheap equipment from Harbor freight. Heck, I even stick welded the exhaust. The point is if I can do it, anyone can.


I have been watching this thread and you give me hope! I've been meaning to learn to weld for YEARS. Last year I saved up some cash and bought (what I hope is a nice) welder thinking it would force me to get going. I'm still chickening out, for no good reason. Now I have a welder sitting in a box in the garage taunting me all the time!

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-22-2019 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:


I have been watching this thread and you give me hope! I've been meaning to learn to weld for YEARS. Last year I saved up some cash and bought (what I hope is a nice) welder thinking it would force me to get going. I'm still chickening out, for no good reason. Now I have a welder sitting in a box in the garage taunting me all the time!


I am a retired telephone tech. I've piddled with welding from time to time but not anything serious. I use a Harbor freight stick welder that has adjustable amperage. Today I continued welding on exhaust pipes. Welding thin stuff is more challenging than the 3/16" plate I used for motor mounts, but I just practice on scrap til I get the hang of it. I'm sure there are better ways to learn, but this seems to be working for me.

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Report this Post01-22-2019 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Well, you're living me dream and I'm enjoying watching you do it!

When it comes to things I "want" to do, typically I've to reach a point where I *must* do something to give me the proper kick in the rear.

This conversation does remind me that one thing I need to do is have someone better at electricity than I am look at my 220... right now it's hardwired to a big air compressor. I need a smart/safe/convenient way of switching power over to a plug for the welder.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-23-2019 12:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

thesameguy
It isn't difficult to install a plug that your compressor can plug into. Then just unplug the compressor and plug in the welder. Just make sure to switch off the breaker for thatcircuit before you start and make sure you use a plug and receptical of the proper amperage to match the breaker and wire guage.

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Report this Post01-23-2019 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MarkSClick Here to Email MarkSSend a Private Message to MarkSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:
I have been watching this thread and you give me hope! I've been meaning to learn to weld for YEARS. Last year I saved up some cash and bought (what I hope is a nice) welder thinking it would force me to get going. I'm still chickening out, for no good reason. Now I have a welder sitting in a box in the garage taunting me all the time!


I have a wire MIG, brand new, under a cover on one of my benches (taunting me too). I messed around with it a little but its one thing that I didn't feel at ease with at all. There is now an adult continuing ed program nearby for welding. I plan to attended in the near future, it opens up a lot more options on these cars.

BR's,

Mark

------------------
86 SE V6 Auto
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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-24-2019 01:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IIK-M5ryHYY

I had to post this review of a cheap stick welder.

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