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3.6 liter High Feature I a Fiero by Daryl M
Started on: 09-07-2016 07:16 PM
Replies: 145 (3989 views)
Last post by: Daryl M on 01-24-2019 01:06 AM
Raydar
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Report this Post11-29-2017 04:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by mender:

I was meaning that if it had a six speed auto on it, it was an LFX and not an LLT.

I have a Camaro 6 speed manual buried in my shop somewhere ...


Ooops. Sorry.

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mender
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Report this Post11-29-2017 07:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for menderSend a Private Message to menderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Ooops. Sorry.

Dang it, I forgot the smiley! No problem!

[This message has been edited by mender (edited 11-29-2017).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post12-03-2017 12:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

FYI I just checked Car-Parts.com. they list over 20 F40 Saab transmissions from cars with 2.8 l V6 engines.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-13-2018 12:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Finally done building a shop so the real work in the LFX/F40 swap begins. I did a test fit of the flywheel/clutch/transmission to the engine. All seemed to go ok, but I have a question that I hope someone will have an opinion about. How many bell housing bolts are required for the transaxle to be sufficiently attached to the engine? I can easily get 8 bolts, but more than that will be a bit of a pain in the butt. The bolts along the bottom are the ones that are problematic..
Thanks,
Daryl

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-17-2018 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Hi all,
I need to pick the community brain. The LFX engine I am in the process of putting in my 88 has a motor mount/jack shaft bearing carrier that came on the 2013 Impala donor car. With the f40 manual tranny attached, the jackshaft is about 10mm lower than it was with the automatic from the impala. My question is if anyone knows if there is a mount that would fit my application? I realize it may be a long shot but if a mount exists, I would rather do that than build one.
Thanks
Daryl

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engine man
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Report this Post10-19-2018 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

why wouldn't the mount from the sab that uses the 2.8 work same engine as the 3.6 but just less displacment i think

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arbakken
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Report this Post10-19-2018 01:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Finally done building a shop so the real work in the LFX/F40 swap begins. I did a test fit of the flywheel/clutch/transmission to the engine. All seemed to go ok, but I have a question that I hope someone will have an opinion about. How many bell housing bolts are required for the transaxle to be sufficiently attached to the engine? I can easily get 8 bolts, but more than that will be a bit of a pain in the butt. The bolts along the bottom are the ones that are problematic..
Thanks,
Daryl


Do you have a picture? You're using the Saab f40, correct? Saab flywheel and clutch? I ask because I'm very interested in swap and may follow in your footsteps... or 2.0T ecotec...

[This message has been edited by arbakken (edited 10-19-2018).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-19-2018 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Engine man, some days I am just not paying attention. I forgot that the jackshaft I got was from a 4 cylinder. It came with a jackshaft support that was not also a motor mount. I don't know if the 2.8 turbo has what I need or not. Worth a check though.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-19-2018 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Arbakken, yes I am using the Saab clutch with a solid flywheel.

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arbakken
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Report this Post10-20-2018 12:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for arbakkenSend a Private Message to arbakkenEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Arbakken, yes I am using the Saab clutch with a solid flywheel.


What did the flywheel come out of?

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-20-2018 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://www.specclutches.com/741094/

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-20-2018 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://i.imgur.com/cxLUnwF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/aMXt7FN.jpg
These photos are of the Impala mount. Notice the mounting holes are about 1/2" off. The Saab unit does not incorporate the motor mount into the shaft bearing carrier. At least the one I got with the shaft doesn't, and it doesn't fit the engine block either, but that is probably because it is from a 4 cylinder Saab.
(First time posting pictures. Hope it works)

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Daryl M
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Report this Post10-27-2018 11:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://i.imgur.com/4t2gUWz.jpg

Time to figure out the mounts.

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Report this Post11-19-2018 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Daryl,

I'm into a very similar swap at the moment with a transverse LFX out of a caddy... I'm also using a saab 9-3 2.8 v6 F40 and have the saab half shaft setup as well.

If I read your post correctly, why are trying to make the Impala automatic half shaft/carrier work with your manual.... you could easily get pontiac G6 halfshaft/carrier combo from GM for ~$130 + shipping from several online GM parts dealers... or even scavenge a saab halfshaft/carrier if available....

Regarding the Saab F40, have you figured out a way to deal with the lack of a VSS? Not interested in a GPS VSS sender..... I'm looking at ways to adapt an ABS tone ring to the fiero DS CV axle to get the signal to the ECU. It should be possible to pull the bellhousing off the saab F40 and 'slap' it onto a 60 deg F40 to get an in-transaxle VSS... might have to go that way if a I can't get the abs tone ring to work. I think FieroGuro has cracked several F40 cases... might need to ask him on this...

Marc

[This message has been edited by msweldon (edited 11-19-2018).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-19-2018 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Swapping the G6 F40 gear side of the transmission to the Saab bellhousing half would allow using the G6 VSS on the ring gear. The only potential issue is the G6 F40 case is missing 2 bolt holes from the later, more reinforced F40s. I don't know which style you have.

This the reinforced version with 2 extra holes:


This is the G6 F40 Version:


Another option is to pick up the Regal/Ecotec F40. It is a reinforced version and has a VSS ring added to the upper main shaft and a sensor location on the transmission case.



If you are going to start swapping the gear side cases, do that before you make your transmission mounts as the only common holes are the ones connecting the two transmission halves.

Also, many of the newer versions switched to a 2 bolt flange for the shifter mechanism. The G6 version has 3 holes.

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msweldon
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Report this Post11-19-2018 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Swapping the G6 F40 gear side of the transmission to the Saab bellhousing half would allow using the G6 VSS on the ring gear. The only potential issue is the G6 F40 case is missing 2 bolt holes from the later, more reinforced F40s. I don't know which style you have.

If you are going to start swapping the gear side cases, do that before you make your transmission mounts as the only common holes are the ones connecting the two transmission halves.

Also, many of the newer versions switched to a 2 bolt flange for the shifter mechanism. The G6 version has 3 holes.


It's Saab F40 from a 2008 9-3 2.8L Turbo... obviously I was after the global pattern bellhousing for mating to the high feature V6s... from initial inspection and look overs it's very very similar to the 60 deg F40, but will have to clean it up and get some pics up for us to compare..

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Daryl M
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Report this Post11-20-2018 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Amazing what gets posted after I build a custom mount. 😝 as it turns out it may have been just as easy anyway. Other projects will be taking my spare time til after Dec 10th , o keep up the great work and if I ever figure out how to post photos, I'll show you what I've been up to. As it is now, I have been sharing them on the Arizona Fiero FB page.

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Will
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Report this Post11-20-2018 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Swapping the G6 F40 gear side of the transmission to the Saab bellhousing half would allow using the G6 VSS on the ring gear. The only potential issue is the G6 F40 case is missing 2 bolt holes from the later, more reinforced F40s. I don't know which style you have.

This the reinforced version with 2 extra holes:


This is the G6 F40 Version:


Another option is to pick up the Regal/Ecotec F40. It is a reinforced version and has a VSS ring added to the upper main shaft and a sensor location on the transmission case.



If you are going to start swapping the gear side cases, do that before you make your transmission mounts as the only common holes are the ones connecting the two transmission halves.

Also, many of the newer versions switched to a 2 bolt flange for the shifter mechanism. The G6 version has 3 holes.


Wild. Thanks for sharing. Is your G6 F40 the '06 or '07 version? The '06 cars have an MT2 gear ratios, while the '07's received the MU9 gear ratios. I don't know how many of these changes (if any others) were incorporated between the two transmissions.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 11-20-2018).]

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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-20-2018 02:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:
Wild. Thanks for sharing. Is your G6 F40 the '06 or '07 version? The '06 cars have an MT2 gear ratios, while the '07's received the MU9 gear ratios. I don't know how many of these changes (if any others) were incorporated between the two transmissions.


All of my G6 F40s are the 2006 MT2 version. I am pretty sure everything on the cases is the same with the 2007 G6 version. Where I have seen most of the changes is across applications. The Opel case I have from the 3.09 final swap, has the reinforced case, deeper bell housing, and several other changes. When I look at pictures of the 2014+ F40 from the Regals, it has more in common with the Opel version than the G6 version.

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Will
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Report this Post11-23-2018 01:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

What system did you get that exploded diagram from?

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fieroguru
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Report this Post11-23-2018 02:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Will:

What system did you get that exploded diagram from?


It was from a GM Online parts lookup tool. I saved the diagrams for the entire transmission. Unfortunately, not every part has a part# associated with it.

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Will
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Report this Post11-23-2018 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Right... we went through that with the MT2 6th gear pair.

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msweldon
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Report this Post12-03-2018 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Daryl,

What axles did you end up using?

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Daryl M
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Report this Post12-07-2018 12:55 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

The axles I went with are from a Cobalt 2.0l supercharged, with the Saab intermediate shaft.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post12-17-2018 12:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Update:
I have decided to try to use a Dakota Digital magnetic pickup and 5 magnets on the intermediate axle shaft to provide a VSS signal. I am also going to use a Dakota Digital SGI-5 unit to adjust for exact speed. Any thoughts?

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Joseph Upson
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Report this Post12-17-2018 06:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonClick Here to Email Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Daryl M:

Update:
I have decided to try to use a Dakota Digital magnetic pickup and 5 magnets on the intermediate axle shaft to provide a VSS signal. I am also going to use a Dakota Digital SGI-5 unit to adjust for exact speed. Any thoughts?


In that case why not consider sourcing a small threaded universal sensor and drilling a hole in the case over the final drive gear for location similar to the early F40. I used the SGI-5 module with the stock sensor and Darths digital circuit and it worked dependably for the 5 or 6 yrs I had it.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post12-17-2018 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Joseph, for the sake of simplicity and to avoid dismantling the transmission, I decided to mount the aperatice externally.

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-18-2018 12:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

You could stick with the stock VSS sensor and just find a simple sprocket with the proper ID to press onto the axle/Tripot

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Daryl M
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Report this Post12-18-2018 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Guru, interesting method, but I have already ordered what I need for the setup I have planned. Thanks though. If my setup doesn't work I may give this a try.
Daryl

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Report this Post12-18-2018 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I very well may drill a hole into the saab case and add the VSS as I just nicked a new F40 Quaife for a very fair price and will be splitting the case with a transmission repair fella to get it installed... might as well install the lower ratio final drive as well as guru recommends...

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Report this Post12-18-2018 01:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

You could stick with the stock VSS sensor and just find a simple sprocket with the proper ID to press onto the axle/Tripot



What is the RPM at 65mph with the custom ratio?
My understanding is that the first gear is to low, witch works well for a low power engine but worthless for the LS4. And that the final is to high, basically a freeway gear for fuel economy and not usable for anything else. But changing the final gear on the differential will change all 6 gears. So if I understand this modification correctly, how compatible are the 6 gears after the modification?

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Report this Post12-18-2018 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for msweldonClick Here to Email msweldonSend a Private Message to msweldonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Guru,

Can the lower differential ring gear be swapped out only or do you have to swap the diff ring gear AND pinion?

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fieroguru
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Report this Post12-18-2018 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:


What is the RPM at 65mph with the custom ratio?
My understanding is that the first gear is to low, witch works well for a low power engine but worthless for the LS4. And that the final is to high, basically a freeway gear for fuel economy and not usable for anything else. But changing the final gear on the differential will change all 6 gears. So if I understand this modification correctly, how compatible are the 6 gears after the modification?


It depends on your tire diameter. My 285/30/18 rear wheels are 24.8" in diameter, which is close to stock Fiero. The change to the 3.09 final drive really gives the car a factory V8 feel vs. feeling like it is way over geared (all gears too short), which is what it feels like with the Fiero getrag.

1st gear is now like a C5 ZO6 with a T56 with a 3.90 final drive and 6th gear is like a C5 ZO6 with a 3.45 final drive... both feel very close to stock for a V8 performance car. There are some differences in the gear spreads because the F40 is a wide ratio and the T56 is more of a close ratio. There are other gear options for 3rd, 4th, 5th & 6th if you feel like tearing down the input shaft as well. There is also a 3.348 final drive for those that want something in between the 3.55 and the 3.09.

code:


TRANSMISSION GEAR RATIOS
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th FD 1st * FD 6th * FD
Fiero Getrag 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.61 12.64 2.60
F40 w/ 3.55 3.77 2.04 1.32 0.95 0.76 0.62 3.55 13.38 2.20
F40 w/ 3.09 3.77 2.04 1.32 0.95 0.76 0.62 3.09 11.65 1.92


MAXIMUM MPH BY GEAR
Dia RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
Fiero Getrag 24.8 7000 40.9 69.8 103.6 152.1 198.6 N/A
F40 w/ 3.55 24.8 7000 38.6 71.3 110.2 153.1 191.3 234.5
F40 w/ 3.09 24.8 7000 44.3 81.9 126.6 175.8 219.8 269.4


Cruise RPM At 65 Cruise RPM At 85
Dia RPM MPH Dia RPM MPH
Fiero Getrag 24.8 2291 65.00 24.8 2996 85.00
F40 w/ 3.55 24.8 1940 65.00 24.8 2537 85.00
F40 w/ 3.09 24.8 1689 65.01 24.8 2208 84.99




[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-18-2018).]

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Report this Post12-18-2018 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by msweldon:

Guru,

Can the lower differential ring gear be swapped out only or do you have to swap the diff ring gear AND pinion?


You have to swap the ring gear and the two main shafts (the 3 parts in the center). The overall diameter of the ring gear gets smaller, but the distance between the main shaft and differential remains the same, so the "pinion" gear on the main shafts is larger on the 3.09 gear set.

[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-18-2018).]

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-01-2019 03:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Attempting to post a few photos from my phone.





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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-03-2019 12:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

https://i.postimg.cc/gkTM2T...81229-172139-HDR.jpg

Attempting to figure out picture sizes. Please bear with me.

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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post01-07-2019 04:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Following this post with great interest. The 3.6L with the F40 is the perfect powertrain combo for the stick trans fans. I hope to do the 3.6L 6T70/75 swap one day and I'm researching how to make it work. Most of these swaps that I've come across use the Bosch e9 PCM with the Camaro code or use an aftermarket unit. If it can be done with the OEM PCM then thats a plus.

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Rickady88GT
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From: Central CA
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Report this Post01-07-2019 09:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rickady88GTClick Here to Email Rickady88GTSend a Private Message to Rickady88GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

Following this post with great interest. The 3.6L with the F40 is the perfect powertrain combo for the stick trans fans. I hope to do the 3.6L 6T70/75 swap one day and I'm researching how to make it work. Most of these swaps that I've come across use the Bosch e9 PCM with the Camaro code or use an aftermarket unit. If it can be done with the OEM PCM then thats a plus.



I could be wrong but I thought that the 2.8HF was avaliable with the 6 speed manual. Just use that PCM.

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Daryl M
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From: Wittmann, Arizona, USA
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Report this Post01-07-2019 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I am doing the harness now. You may want to chat with Ryan at GM tuners. I just got my ECM back from him and am looking forward to getting far enough along to turn the key.

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Daryl M
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Report this Post01-07-2019 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Daryl MClick Here to Email Daryl MSend a Private Message to Daryl MEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Rickady88GT the 2.8 is a much earlier model than the LFX. The LFX requires a different ECM. Besides, the LFX came in Camaros with manual tranny's.

[This message has been edited by Daryl M (edited 01-07-2019).]

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