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3.4 swap question by Idaho Wolverine
Started on: 08-12-2016 02:38 AM
Replies: 23 (779 views)
Last post by: sardonyx247 on 08-22-2016 02:09 PM
Idaho Wolverine
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Report this Post08-12-2016 02:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Idaho WolverineSend a Private Message to Idaho WolverineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I did a search, and have to ask;
If I find a good running 3.4 from a Firebird/Camaro, is the biggest issue the starter mounting, and a different flex plate?? My car is an 87GT 5speed, so ECM, intake, starter, alt, should bolt on, correct?? That is the impression i am getting from the build threads I have read.

------------------
Harold Jimi Hendrick, Mesquite, Nevada.

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f85gtron
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Report this Post08-12-2016 06:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yup.
1) If you have a manual (5 speed), then you'll need to install a neutral-balanced flywheel from an 88 fiero, if yours on the 87 is weighted. (3.4 is internally balanced)
2) The starter relocation issue
3) the lower ac bracket needs attention
4) the oil sender tube will need an adapter

Everything else just swaps over.
Don't forget the timing cover so the water pump will spin the right direction (our belts spin it on the ribbed side, instead of the flat side)

[This message has been edited by f85gtron (edited 08-12-2016).]

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Raydar
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Report this Post08-12-2016 06:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A flywheel from a FWD 3.1 (Beretta, Cavalier, etc.) will work just fine.

Check this...
http://rodneydickman.com/ca...g/index.php?cPath=34

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 08-12-2016).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post08-12-2016 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

A flywheel from a FWD 3.1 (Beretta, Cavalier, etc.) will work just fine.

Check this...
http://rodneydickman.com/ca...g/index.php?cPath=34



NOW you tell me!
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fierofool
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Report this Post08-12-2016 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Use the 3.4 oil pan so you don't have to modify the windage tray for oil pump clearance. Other handy items to get from Rodney is the oil dipstick spacer to make the Fiero stick read correctly when using the Fiero tube on a 3.4 and the tube O-ring seal. You must use the Fiero tube and dipstick for correct positioning. Edited: Found the dip stick tube adapter. http://rodneydickman.com/ca...h=34&products_id=193

Sorry I can't provide a link but I saw them Sunday night while placing an order.

While you have the engine out is a good opportunity to convert the old oil pressure sender to the 88 style. Makes splicing in the connector much easier.

Be sure to replace all your engine and tranny mounts and dogbone bushings. The extra torque of the 3.4 will quickly destroy old rubber.

Send your old injectors out to have them re-flowed for 17# @ 43.5 psi. This seems to be the best way to get the best performance with a stock ecm and it's usually cheaper than getting a new set that may not work well. I'm using the BMW injectors in my writeup http://www.gafiero.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2080.0
Some say they aren't perfect, but but they work well for me and for a few others, even though the A/F mix isn't just perfect, there are no rich or lean burn codes ever set. So, that's why I suggest having your flow rate adjusted on the stock injectors.

This link may be of some help to you. http://fiero34swap.eleventenths.org/

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 08-12-2016).]

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f85gtron
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Report this Post08-12-2016 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The oil dipstick:
I just gently persuaded the 3.4 tube to a similar position as the fiero one and its fine. If course, that only works if you keep the 3.4 oil pan.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post08-12-2016 02:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool: Use the 3.4 oil pan so you don't have to modify the windage tray for oil pump clearance.

Instead, you'll need to modify the 3.4 oil pan for motor mount clearance. Been there, done that.



I ended up switching to an '87-88 Fiero oil pan, for exhaust clearance, because I couldn't fit a 2.5" exhaust around the 3.4 oil pan.

In the photo below, the 3.4 oil pan is the bottom one. Notice how the Fiero oil pan has a notch in it for exhaust clearance.

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cvxjet
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Report this Post08-12-2016 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wait - What is this about the dipstick on a 3.4 conversion...I used the 2.8 pan and front cover and I don't remember doing anything special to the dipstick...But now I'm not sure if I have the 2.8 or 3.4 tube and stick. Is there any way to tell the difference?
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lou_dias
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Report this Post08-12-2016 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
On pre-87's you can just shave the mount rather than dent the oil pan...



Since I used a 3400 block (with Camaro or 3.4TDC pistons) and oil pan, I don't recall any issues with my 2.5" exhaust...
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Report this Post08-12-2016 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

Wait - What is this about the dipstick on a 3.4 conversion...I used the 2.8 pan and front cover and I don't remember doing anything special to the dipstick...But now I'm not sure if I have the 2.8 or 3.4 tube and stick. Is there any way to tell the difference?


Stick:
The 2.8 stick will be longer, black and metal at the handle,
while the 3.4 most likely will be yellow plastic.

Tube
The 2.8 tube is longer and attaches to the engine hoist eyelet bracket via either a 10 or 8mm course thread screw,
while the 3.4 tube is shorter and attaches directly to the head via a 13 or 15mm bolt
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fierofool
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Report this Post08-12-2016 06:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Using a 2.8 dipstick and tube will give the appearance of being overfull with 4.5 quarts of oil. It can lead to engine damage if oil level is allowed to drop to the ADD mark, especially if subsequent owners aren't informed or an oil change service thinks it's overfull and removes oil. Rodney's spacer solves the problem.

If you don't know what you have, change oil and filter, add 4.5 quarts oil and after the car has been run then let set for 5 minutes, check the level on the stick.

Edit: My 3.4 with 3.4 pan and 2.8 tube and dipstick shows about 3/4 quart overfull.

A word of caution--If you modify the engine mount, don't use straight cuts. Radius all cut junctures to prevent breaking.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 08-13-2016).]

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cvxjet
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Report this Post08-13-2016 12:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the info....Cripes, I just finished my front rebuild/ big brake mod/etc and finally, today I took her out on a twisty road and ran her thru a number of switchbacks- hard....and I know the oil was a half quart low on the dipstick.......I wonder how low It is on the "Dip(sh*t) in the drivers seat"?
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Idaho Wolverine
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Report this Post08-13-2016 02:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Idaho WolverineSend a Private Message to Idaho WolverineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You guys are the best! Thanks for the info =)
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cvxjet
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Report this Post08-13-2016 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok....I have the 2.8 pan and 2.8 tube and stick.....Do I need to change anything? Did they change the position where the dipstick tube mounts on the block?
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fierofool
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Report this Post08-13-2016 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 2.8 dipstick and tube will mount exactly as it was on the 2.8. Just check the oil level at first fill and start to see where it registers on the stick. I don't know, because I used the 3.4 pan and 2.8 tube and stick.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post08-14-2016 03:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageSend a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 2.8 pan uses the 2.8 dipstick, The 3.4 pan uses the 3.4 dipstick, simple.
I dent the pan over cutting the bracket as I have twisted my bracket and don't want to weaken them more.

4.5 quarts? quit using the short filter, use the long filter and then it holds 5 quarts, (more oil, more filter, win win) part numbers fram 3980, A/C PF52 not PF52e, etc

Use the injectors that come with the 3.4, they are 17lbs. They are $5.50 each here in Vegas pick-a-part (if you don't have them already)

I see you are in Mesquite, take a quick drive to Vegas, I am in the middle of a 3.4 swap now and can show/tell you everything needed. (I have probably done more 3.4 swaps than anyone, well over 30) I can show you all the tips and tricks, even how to get about 11hp for $35 another 8 for free, etc.

BTW everything you need to know for the 3.4 swap is in my swap thread, link in sig. Install, rebuild, where to get part cheap/local, everything.

The flexplate you can get at autozone for $40, no big deal there.

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada
Now on my 11th Fiero

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Idaho Wolverine
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Report this Post08-15-2016 02:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Idaho WolverineSend a Private Message to Idaho WolverineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will do that when I can! Thanks for the invite.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post08-15-2016 02:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageSend a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Idaho Wolverine:

I will do that when I can! Thanks for the invite.


If you want to see this swap in progress, I should get the block back from the machine shop tomorrow, and I hope to be done by the end of the week.
Otherwise you are always welcome anytime, it is the Las Vegas Fiero Club after all. Link in sig

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada
Now on my 11th Fiero

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Raydar
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Report this Post08-15-2016 05:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Use the injectors that come with the 3.4, they are 17lbs. They are $5.50 each here in Vegas pick-a-part (if you don't have them already)
...


Go ahead. They're cheap (or free).

If your engine wants to hunt for an idle speed, that will be the first thing to check / replace.
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DandRauto
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Report this Post08-15-2016 11:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DandRautoSend a Private Message to DandRautoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I can show you all the tips and tricks, even how to get about 11hp for $35 another 8 for free, etc.



sounds interesting, can you share the info for other 3.4 swapers?
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PontiacTate
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Report this Post08-15-2016 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiacTateSend a Private Message to PontiacTateEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

I can show you all the tips and tricks, even how to get about 11hp for $35 another 8 for free, etc.



Care to share that info with me? I'm in NC so coming to visit is kinda outta the question. I have an 85 GT with a 3.4 swap by previous owner.
Thanks,
Tate
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post08-16-2016 06:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageSend a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As soon as I get time I'll do a quick write up. I need to get my facts straight (years,cars etc)
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Report this Post08-18-2016 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PontiacTateSend a Private Message to PontiacTateEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm assuming the free 8 WHP is porting the stock exhaust manifolds. It's the other mod your speaking of that I'm curious about.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post08-22-2016 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageSend a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

As soon as I get time I'll do a quick write up. I need to get my facts straight (years,cars etc)


Posted here
//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/138562.html
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