I have been a forum member for quite some time but I have not been as active as I use to be. I am 27 and my first car when I turned 16 was a 1986 SE 4-cylinder. About 6 years ago I purchased a 1987 GT 5-speed I found in a field for $350. My original plan was to part it out and make some money. After finding out the car came from Texas and spent pretty much its entire life either in Texas or Georgia, I decided I wanted to fix it up dubbing it as my "project car". There is no rust on this thing and it is a very solid car. It was only in Michigan for about a year before I found her.
First car 1986 Fiero SE 2.5L
First day we picked up the 87 GT. Had to load it on a flat bed because all 4 corners were seized. Also I found out the 5-speed Getrag was destroyed, whoever had it last liked to drop the clutch at 4k and blew it up... literally. Pictures to come.
The interior was disgusting! The seats were excellent but everything needed a good clean. All cleaned up on the inside. Stock 2.8 with around 145k when I first got her. Used fenders from a forum member, notice the front bumper. The previous owner thought it was a good idea to hook a tow strap to the radiator support ultimately ripping the front clip of the car of. I purchased a used bumper from a forum member out of state.
5-speed grenaded! The trans shop was able to locate a used/fully rebuilt unit and installed it for me. Front bumper installed. My attempt to copy Skitimes GT front bumper, didn't turn out too bad
First day home after paint! $350 paint job. Not the best but from 10ft she looked great!
It took plenty of time, money, blood, sweat and tears to get the Fiero road worthy! After awhile 2 Fieros was too much. I sold my first car and began to focus on the GT. As the years passed I tinkered and played with the GT as much as possible, but after awhile I grew bored with the car and found myself wanting to sell her. Easier said then done.
My then girlfriend (now fiance) convinced me to keep it! The old "that was the car you had when we first met, you can't sell that". So I kept it but rarely drove it and it sat inside in storage for quite some time. This past summer I was still struggling with the Fiero. The 2.8 was getting tired, not as reliable and downright boring to drive. Parts were breaking from lack of use and the paint job (I painted myself) wasn't holding up like I thought. It needed something else... otherwise this car was doomed to sit forever or be sold. I did not want this to happen though. So after some convincing from both my fiance and friends I decided to once again focus on the Fiero.
I decided to start a build thread to track my progress... here we go! Project 38 Special has begun...
Fast forward a few years, the swap begins!
3 of the 4 cradle bolts were frozen. The front 2 had to be cut which was a pain and kind of sketchy. On one side in the rear we had to access the cradle nut from a hole cut in the frame.
Out with the old tired, dirty smokey stock powerplant.
Victory shot! Infamous "standing in the engine bay" picture.
Went out shopping for a 3800SC. I found this on Craigslist. I was told it came out of a 99 Regal GS with 160K. I now believe it is a 98. More on that later. I was told the car was totaled out by a dear but the engine never ran right after that. I bought it for $350. Trans, wire harness and computer included. Turns out this thing had some major issues but I was looking to have a full rebuild anyway. I tore the engine down to the short block. It was obvious that the rear head gasket had blown. Even before I tore it down I turned the engine over by hand and coolant came shooting out of the spark plug holes. Once the heads were off there was coolant on each piston, but nothing in the oil pan. I took the short block to a very reputable engine rebuild shop. They hot tanked everything to clean it up and check for cracks. Both heads were full of cracks but the block was fine. The crank was junk, bores needed to be bored over .020", crank needed to be ground... you get the picture. So I bit the bullet because I wanted this engine to be done right. All new parts. New bearings, mains, rods, pistons, lifters, cam, pushrods etc. I purchased used heads off of a 2004 GTP. I had the shop put a VS cam from ZZP in it while they were at it. ZZP is literally 10 minutes from my house so that is a huge benefit to this swap.
So far:
3800SC- Fully Rebuilt 5-Speed Getrag- Rebuilt VS Cam Stock Lifters Stock Pushrods Stock Rockers Stock GTP Heads Series III- Cleaned up heads and valve seats Aluminum Intake Gaskets
Later: 3.4 MPS 42.5# Injectors Modified Fuel Rail Fuel Pump Custom Wire Harness Clutch Flywheel Tune Motor Mounts etc. As the engine sits now... Stay tuned for more!
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
I'm going to be pulling my 1998 3800SC in a while. Just starting to get light bottom end noise on very hard acceleration. Has about 110,000 on it now. Has never been overheated and the internals look clean. Still holds over 60 lbs oil pressure at idle hot. I have a 2005 Vin K (last year) with confirmed 14,800 miles that I,m going to put in for now. I trying to decide if I should keep the SC and have it gone through for later or another car. Put it in with about 98,000. When I did, I replaced the oil pan. While I was there the cylinder walls looked like they had no wear(still light traces of cross hatch hone marks)with pistons up. What were your machine shop cost? I,m most likely going to pull it before there is too much crank damage to turn.
I'm going to be pulling my 1998 3800SC in a while. Just starting to get light bottom end noise on very hard acceleration. Has about 110,000 on it now. Has never been overheated and the internals look clean. Still holds over 60 lbs oil pressure at idle hot. I have a 2005 Vin K (last year) with confirmed 14,800 miles that I,m going to put in for now. I trying to decide if I should keep the SC and have it gone through for later or another car. Put it in with about 98,000. When I did, I replaced the oil pan. While I was there the cylinder walls looked like they had no wear(still light traces of cross hatch hone marks)with pistons up. What were your machine shop cost? I,m most likely going to pull it before there is too much crank damage to turn.
I got my cradle and control arms back from powder coating this week. I added poly control arm bushings, Rodney Dickman's lower ball joints, aluminum cradle bushings and heavy duty inner and outer tie rods. The cradle is essentially ready for the engine and 5-speed. However I still need to finish getting some more small parts for the engine order to move forward. This has been a slow process. My goal is to not make myself go broke or get burnt out from this project. Merry Christmas everybody!!
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
I am still making progress... lately my time has been spent saving money and acquiring the many parts I needed for this swap. I figured since I have the engine out and on a stand I want to do as much as possible now while everything is accessible. My goal is to make this swap as clean as possible to my standards.
Recent parts: 3800sc Swap Harness- FieroFlyer aka Danny (beautiful work, awesome communication, cant wait to try this harness) 3800 Mounts- from BrandX Mounts (look fantastic and strong!) 3800 Low Mount alt bracket- Fiero Rog (look awesome, simple yet sturdy) 3800 Dog Bone mount- Fiero Rog (look awesome as well!) Machined Flywheel- Fiero Rog Modified 3800sc Fuel Rails- FieroFreak (Jason did a wonderful job, CLEAN! Stainless Steel Pontiac Trans Sport Fuel Lines- Taurus 3.8L 1995 Idler Pulley- Advance Auto Parts
My next big purchase is going to be a Spec Stage 3+ clutch.
I have a bit of little odds and ends to get but I'm getting there. My goal is to have the engine in and running by the end of April. Fingers crossed. I plan on keep you all updated on my progress. This isn't really a step by step thread more of just a place to put pictures, share experiences and share ideas. The Fiero community has been great over the years ever since my first Fiero I got when I was 16 (I'm 27 now!)
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
I made some progress this weekend on the swap. Motor/trans mounts have been installed, fuel rails installed, low mount alternator and dog bone bracket installed.
I finally got the engine and trans bolted up to the cradle last night. New Spec 3+ clutch installed. It went pretty smooth with the BrandX mounts. One of them was really tight and isn't sitting quite right possibly from me drilling my holes in the mounts a little off. I hope once everything is in and rolling it will settle and be where it needs to be.
I also got lucky and found a set of TOG Headers on craigslist for $150. I understand the crossover pipe wont clear the slave cylinder but I have not checked this yet. I really don't want to make a bracket to relocate the slave 90*. Any ideas?
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
Made a little more progress this week with some small stuff. Installed the starter, cv axles, accessory belt, plugged the LIM with a 7/8" freeze plug, wrapped my TOG headers.
I tried mounting the headers and they fit great, however the crossover pipe is obviously interfereing with the slave cylinder. I will probably end up modifying the crossover pipe rather than modifying the slave cylinder. Next on the list is to drop the fuel tank and put in my new AC Delco EP381. Then I need to save a little for my new shift cables, cradle bolts and some other odds and ends. My goal still remains, to have it running and driving by May 1st. Thanks for watching.
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
Are you going save your trunk or cut it? I am glad PO of my car kept the trunk.
I don't know yet. Evidently with the TOG headers you can sometimes get away with just denting it. I really want to keep it. Worse case scenario I have to cut it a bit to fit. This wont be a DD, more of a nice summer weekend cruise Fiero
Pulled the tank this week and installed a new AC Delco EP381 fuel pump. Pulling the tank was a piece of cake. I ran the sucker down to about a half gallon this fall trying to get as much fuel out of it as possible. I am hoping this pump will be sufficient. People say it runs out of steam around 300 crank HP. I will be slightly over that per my calculations.
Next up is some exhaust work and fitting then install. I am right on track to finish this swap by May 1st. Fingers crossed!
I hope you don't mind some feed back from a 3800SC owner. My car is a daily driver. Yes all year long. One thing that I noticed and is my biggest gripe, well no second biggest. Is noise. The PO of my car used a Flowmaster 80 or 70 he wasn't sure. It is loud. At expressway speeds it is deafening(it will give some headaches if riding in it to long) inside the car! It is just plain loud. You might want to address this before hand. Next HEAT! This engine produces heat! It gets real warm back there! It reminds me when (showing my age) I had a 69 Z/28 and put a 396 into it. The floor boards would get hot in the Z. I didn't run that engine to long! I see you are running a manual. If you were to use an auto, I would advise you to get a GOOD oil cooler. PO of my car installed the smallest oil cooler made. About a year after I had the car I started to notice trans problems. The car originally was a manual car, so no tranny cooler in the radiator and no lines, so he put the little cooler in the back in front of the engine. I spent some time and researched coolers and found one with fans that fits in the area. Wasn't cheap, just ask my wife. Brakes, you may want to up grade brakes. 87 has ok brakes, but not for a fast car that the 3800SC turns the Fiero into. PO installed a 88 rear cradle so my car has 88 rear brakes(dual vented and not solid disc.) It is ok, I put some better pads on. On the subject of brakes. Are you going to use the parking brake? I would, it keeps the rears adjusted. When I notice the brakes seem soft, I take the rear wheels off and adjust the rear brakes. Oil filter location? I am not sure what PO used but I have loosen the fasteners for the splash shield to get at the oil filter AND it will only take the smaller filter. Could be because of the 88 rear suspension is in the way? Could be the rear cradle is bent, car came that way from PO. But I can only use the short filter. So I run Wix. I learned that from an old SCCA Trans Am racer. Where are you going to put your air filter? PO had it in the open area between the rear outer skin and frame. If it is a daily driver, it will get a lot of dust and dirt in that area. I moved it and put it inside the engine compartment nest to wheel well. What the tire size you use. PO had to large of tire on car. They would rub. When I bought new tires I went down a size. No more rubbing!
Oh fuel pump you want to get a high flow pump. PO of my car did! No fuel flow problems. He installed TRE HD pump. Speaking of problems, where are you mounting the coil pack? PO mounted mine on the fire wall and when it rained real hard the car would miss! I have fabed a rubber flap to go over it. Also when doing this you have to custom make plug wires.
Thermostat? PO had 180 installed. Car ran rich and fuel economy was not good. I installed the standard 195 runs better doesn't run any hotter and fuel economy improved!
If there is anything you have questions on or want to see in the car let me know. I can drive the ole car over.
Who are you going to use to program your computer? Sinister is what I have and talking to others who do swaps in our area they use Sinister also. Steve W NE Grand Rapids.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 04-14-2016).]
I got the engine in this weekend!! It went in really well. For some reason the engine seems to be sitting a touch higher on the passenger side and I can't figure it out. The passenger side decklid torque rod looks like it will hit the supercharger pulley. I am using Brand X poly mounts for an 87 GT 5-speed. I am also using Fier Rog's Dog-bone bracket and it isn't lining up. The engine needs to be sitting lower on the passenger side and I can't figure it out. Any body else run into this? Here are some pics of it in. I will take some more tonight of the issues I am having with the engine sitting to high.
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
I will check and see if I can find what mounts PO use on my car. Olejoedad does 3800 swaps. Brian and Joe are in Homer, MI. They have done a few, lol quite a few 3800 swaps. They did some work on my car and a few others here in GR and quite a few in the Lansing Club.
[This message has been edited by solotwo (edited 05-10-2016).]
I got the engine in this weekend!! It went in really well. For some reason the engine seems to be sitting a touch higher on the passenger side and I can't figure it out. The passenger side decklid torque rod looks like it will hit the supercharger pulley. I am using Brand X poly mounts for an 87 GT 5-speed. I am also using Fier Rog's Dog-bone bracket and it isn't lining up. The engine needs to be sitting lower on the passenger side and I can't figure it out. Any body else run into this?
Yes, similar issues experienced. The torque rod should not hit the pulley. It should hit the fins on the snout if anything. However, If you don't have a 2.25" IC core then nothing should be hitting. My brand X mount are getting reworked to correct the issues. The dog bone bracket needs a few spacers to line up perfect but you first have to fix the front engine mount.
I did some searching in all my Fiero papers and found a note from PO of my car. He states that he used the transmission mount from a TranSport with the 3800 engine. Wait you have a manual. Sorry. He states the engine mount is from 88 Grand Prix and the lower mount is from an 88 GT. I have an 88 cradle and that could make a difference from your car.
I got my cradle and control arms back from powder coating this week. I added poly control arm bushings, Rodney Dickman's lower ball joints, aluminum cradle bushings and heavy duty inner and outer tie rods. The cradle is essentially ready for the engine and 5-speed. However I still need to finish getting some more small parts for the engine order to move forward. This has been a slow process. My goal is to not make myself go broke or get burnt out from this project. Merry Christmas everybody!!
Tonight I am hooking up my coils, filling it up with coolant and fuel and she should be ready to fire up! I am very excited and nervous at the same time. However, I am confident she will be fine. Stay tuned!
Got her started on Friday, first try! Wow what a great feeling. I was so pumped hearing her fire up that night. All that hard work, time and money really paid off. The only hiccup so far is that I can't shift into gear. I bled the clutch for an hour using V8 Archies method to no avail. However, my clutch pedal has no feel and goes right to the floor. I can manage reverse if I really pull it but it grinds and want to take off even with the clutch pushed in. It's an engagement issue. My pedal has always sat an inch or so below my brake pedal and shifting has never been great since I got her. I purchased Rodney Dickman's late model clutch master cylinder w/ banjo bolt. I also have a new Fiero Store pedal on it's way. I figure I might as well do it all. My pedal does look a bit worn/bent. I am hoping with these 2 things and a good bleed of the system I should be able to get her on the road. I am so excited! She sounds so healthy and strong. I can't wait to break her in and continue making this car my own.
I have decided to ditch the all black and go mainly all white with a black roof and fastback panel. I love this look, and it will feel like a brand new car. Here are some pics below. I hope to upload a video as well. Thanks all!
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.4 pulley, headers, 42.5# injectors... '86 SE - 2m4, SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
good looking swap! congrats on the first start. you mentioned a taurus 3.8 idler pulley...is this a 3 or 3.5"? what bracket is holding your tensioner closest to your alternator...looks to be a separate bracket from the alt/dogbone mount?
good looking swap! congrats on the first start. you mentioned a taurus 3.8 idler pulley...is this a 3 or 3.5"? what bracket is holding your tensioner closest to your alternator...looks to be a separate bracket from the alt/dogbone mount?
Wow! It has been awhile since I've posted in my build. Since May there has been a lot more progress. This summer I basically enjoyed the car by driving it and not working on her. I needed a break for awhile.
I parked the car for the winter in my garage and I have been working slowly on refreshing the interior right now. So far I have added auxilary gauges. Autometer oil pressure, Autometer voltage gauge and Aeroforce scan gauge. I will be adding a boost gauge to the HVAC vent area. I ordered some custom pieces made from carbon steel and I will post them when I have them.
My plans are:
New headliner New carpet Mr Mikes Leather Seats LED interior lights Recovered steering wheel Recovered shift knob Vinyl lower door panels Vinyl sun visors
I re-upholstered the terribly saggy headliner with some headliner fabric from Joann's fabric and DAP Weldrod glue. It was a bit of work but turned out great!
I began taking apart the interior. When I first got the car there was a mountain of cigarettes on the floor and under the seats. I also found some in the center console. That was almost 8 years ago when I got her. Once I started tearing the interior apart more I discovered more cigs and all sorts of ash.
I ended up replacing the firewall panel with vinyl. I just covered the existing board, carpet and all with more vinyl bought from the fabric store. A few staples and some stretching and it turned out really well!
Next, I am sending out the steering wheel and shift knob to a forum member to have them recovered in black leather and gray stitching. My steering wheel was actually in really good shape however it was starting to ooze the brown stuff and wearing. I am looking forward to having a black leather steering wheel. I never did like the dark gray it was originally.
I will try to keep updating this as I continue to work on her through the winter.
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.3 pulley, TOG headers, 3.5" CAI, A104's, 180* thermostat, 36lb injectors & SPEC 3+ clutch- 38SP3CL
'86 SE 2m4: my first car at 16- SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
Got the carpet, trim and firewall board installed today. Looks like a brand new interior! Now I just need to get some black vinyl door panels and Mr. Mikes leather seats.
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.3 pulley, TOG headers, 3.5" CAI, A104's, 180* thermostat, 36lb injectors & SPEC 3+ clutch- 38SP3CL
'86 SE 2m4: my first car at 16- SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
Originally I had my volts, aeroforce scan gauge, and oil pressure gauge in the aux gauge pod. I also desired a boost gauge but did not want to sacrifice the clean-ness of the interior so I decided to buy a custom steel radio bezel that has holes for gauges where the vents are. Now my aux pod will have autometer volt gauge, boost gauge and oil pressure gauge with the scan gauge underneath in the center vent hole. I also plan to find some circular 2" custom vents to put in the other openings. Does anybody know where I could find said vents? I looked at some from Summit, but I was not impressed with them. I also bought a custom steel shift surround. It deletes the ash trays and doors and gives it and overall clean look. I bought these plates from a man named Brad on Facebook who is part of a Fiero page on there. They look great and match the originals perfectly!
I ended up buy some 3M vinyl wrap in brushed aluminum and wrapped them. First wrap job. I did the main gauge plate, shift plate, radio bezel and aux pod bezel all with one 12"x24" roll. I love the look. I am excited to buy my boost gauge and vents to finally tie it altogether.
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.3 pulley, TOG headers, 3.5" CAI, A104's, 180* thermostat, 36lb injectors & SPEC 3+ clutch- 38SP3CL
'86 SE 2m4: my first car at 16- SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
Things have been slow around here lately. It has been too cold to work on the Fiero much. I finally finished my gauge and custom vent install. I think they turned out great! I also had my steering wheel and shift knob recovered in leather by a forum member named Irrationable. He did an excellent job! I am very pleased with the quality and detail.
I was able to get her out on a nice 50 degree day and try out the new rear sway-bar. It seems to have made the car tighter and more responsive. I am very happy with it. Next, I am waiting on tax return money to finish up the interior. My plans are to get Mr. Mikes Leatherette seat cover, cover the door panels in vinyl and get the sunvisors recovered. Once this is done my interior renovation/restoration will be complete.
Then, it is on to the exterior. I am planning on fiber-glassing in my rear scoop, doing a front hood extractor scoop, side scoops then vinyl wrap.
------------------ '87 GT - 5spd, Project Car- 3800SC II: Full Rebuild, VS Cam, 90# Springs, 3.3 pulley, TOG headers, 3.5" CAI, A104's, 180* thermostat, 36lb injectors & SPEC 3+ clutch- 38SP3CL
'86 SE 2m4: my first car at 16- SOLD -------------------------------------------------------------------------- So now you'd better stop and rebuild all your ruins, For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
The temps reached 45 degrees here in Michigan today so I decided to take her out for a short cruise. Here is a short exhaust clip. 3800SC II with TOG headers, 3" exhaust, Spintech muffler and C6 tips. I hate how the 3800 sounds but it's not terrible. I personally think the Spintech is too raspy. Any suggestions on how to get the exhaust tone deeper with a different muffler?
The temps reached 45 degrees here in Michigan today so I decided to take her out for a short cruise. Here is a short exhaust clip. 3800SC II with TOG headers, 3" exhaust, Spintech muffler and C6 tips. I hate how the 3800 sounds but it's not terrible. I personally think the Spintech is too raspy. Any suggestions on how to get the exhaust tone deeper with a different muffler?
In the home stretch now.
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