This may sound stupid but when you get a oil change, the plug is pulled, oil oil and sludge pours out, the plug is rescrewed in, new filter ( PF 52) is inserted and 5 qts. of oil added. What about the old oil inside the engine?? Should'n there be a " flush" through out the inside of the engine ???
A long time ago they recommended that you heat up the engine before you change the oil. More oil and dirt came out. With newer oils that last longer I think they gave up worrying about that last half of 1% that did not come out. If YOU are worried about it, just change oil more often.
You drained it already. You're supposed to drain it when hot, so that more of the oil comes out, as cold oil will stick to things.
If you want to have a full flush, get a shop that has the equipment to pressurize the oil system to actually flush things out. Or, just put new oil in and do a short oil change next time, if you're worried there might be sludge still in the engine.
Thanks guys, always willing to learn something. Want to keep the 85GT with 57K in shape. Always notice in the replys there is at least one....fill in the blank.
Thanks guys, always willing to learn something. Want to keep the 85GT with 57K in shape. Always notice in the replys there is at least one....fill in the blank.
In all seriousness though. Sludge that an oil flush does dislodge could clog the oil pump pickup screen, causing more problems than it solves. You shouldn't have much build up as long as you change your oil every 3-5K. I wouldn't bother with oil flushes. And godforbid. If you have an automatic DON'T fluid flush the transmission.
You mentioned that you have an 85 GT and im assuming it is the same oil plug as my 86GT.
You'll notice it points towards the back of the car at an downward angle. You could always keep the drain plug out and lift the front of the car to make sure any extra oil drains out. Keeping the back of the car up while draining it, could keep more old oil in than you would want.
Other than that, you won't necessarily get all the oil out unless you have equipment that dealerships have.
------------------ Every fiero has a story, It's our job to keep that story alive.
[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 12-04-2015).]
I "used to" drain it, then put in a couple of Quarts of cheap 10w oil, run it for a minute or 2 then dump it, and put on the new filter and oil. (If the oil was as sludgy as you said.)
You'll notice it points towards the back of the car at an downward angle. You could always keep the drain plug out and lift the front of the car to make sure any extra oil drains out. Keeping the back of the car up while draining it, could keep more old oil in than you would want.
Yep, the Fiero is kind of the opposite of most cars; on most cars you raise the front and the oil drains downhill from the pan. On the Fiero, you raise the rear but unfortunately now the oil has to drain uphill slightly. I raise mine to remove the plug and then I lower it to let it drain. Either way, though, I doubt there's more than about a cupful of old oil remaining if the car is left to drain uphill. I doubt it matters much.
Would have been kind of neat if they fabbed up a special "Fiero-only" oil pan where the drain is on the front side. But who knows, maybe that would expose the drain plug to more road hazards being in front. Or maybe clearance there is tight by the tranny pan. I can't remember.
If you don't know the last oil change date/mileage and you suspect it's been too long. Warm it up drain it out, fill it and run it for 10 minutes and drain and fill again. That should do it. Check for stuff in the first change grit, color, smell, etc. You could even send a sample out for analysis.
Rislone makes an additive that reduces sludge, perhaps a half quart to a full quart is used at each normal oil change to break down existing sludge and prevent new sludge (jumbo shrimp, anyone?), from developing. Considering the quality of the rest of their product lineup, don't hesitate to try it. As long as you're faithful about changing the oil on time and adding zinc for bearing life, you should be able to rest comfortably. If you really want to go overkill, I'm sure seafoam and multiple quick filter changes will work. Personally, I just stick with Rislone and use a quality filter (I.e. NOT fram). Wix filters have a great reputation.
Fill to ~4 qt, run engine then check level and add if needed.
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Originally posted by viperine: Rislone makes an additive that reduces sludge, perhaps a half quart to a full quart is used at each normal oil change to break down existing sludge and prevent new sludge (jumbo shrimp, anyone?), from developing. Considering the quality of the rest of their product lineup, don't hesitate to try it. As long as you're faithful about changing the oil on time and adding zinc for bearing life, you should be able to rest comfortably. If you really want to go overkill, I'm sure seafoam and multiple quick filter changes will work. Personally, I just stick with Rislone and use a quality filter (I.e. NOT fram). Wix filters have a great reputation.
All are BS saying reduce sludge etc. Any oil made in last 20 year reduce sludge even eliminate the problem on good engines. current oils, SJ SL SM and SN, even more so. Use Synthetic oils even better. SN? Yup. SN start in 2010 and is made to survive E85 fuel. See http://www.api.org/~/media/...IDE_ENGLISH_2013.pdf
And don't believe the myth pushed by Jiffy Lube and others saying 3000 mile or 3 month. Many cars are fine w/ 5000-7000 miles and more even in the '80s.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Rislone makes an additive that reduces sludge, perhaps a half quart to a full quart is used at each normal oil change to break down existing sludge and prevent new sludge (jumbo shrimp, anyone?), from developing. Considering the quality of the rest of their product lineup, don't hesitate to try it. As long as you're faithful about changing the oil on time and adding zinc for bearing life, you should be able to rest comfortably. If you really want to go overkill, I'm sure seafoam and multiple quick filter changes will work. Personally, I just stick with Rislone and use a quality filter (I.e. NOT fram). Wix filters have a great reputation.
There are some detailed threads on PFF examining the construction of oil filters, which are probably the basis for the comment. The brand used on a rolling billboard that gets more maintenance than run time has little to do with the usual treatment a Fiero gets.
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 12-05-2015).]
There are some detailed threads on PFF examining the construction of oil filters, which are probably the basis for the comment. The brand used on a rolling billboard that gets more maintenance than run time has little to do with the usual treatment a Fiero gets.
So, what you are saying is that someone is willing to risk a multi-million dollar championship race operation for a few thousand dollar sponsorship. Is that correct?
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 12-05-2015).]
If it didn't matter then why wasn't he running a Motorcraft filter seeing that Ford was his sponsor? Or maybe an AC filter now that he is running a Chevy.
The Fram HP filter is what a lot lot race teams and racers use, sponsored or not, short or long distance.
If Fram was so bad they wouldn't be used at all, they wouldn't be in business and there would be all kinds of class action lawsuits pending.
That brings up a good question....why don't they eliminate the oil filter on dragsters? It would save weight and the oil is going to get changed anyway...
That brings up a good question....why don't they eliminate the oil filter on dragsters? It would save weight and the oil is going to get changed anyway...
There's a reason the bearings get swapped after pretty much every run on top fuel engines. Saving a few ounces of weight isn't really going to get you much, when you're making that much power. Top fuel teams will even sometimes change complete engines between runs, and come to the track with several sitting in the trailer. The engines operate on the verge of hydrolocking after a short time into the run, and the spark plugs burn out with the engine firing from detonation.
Fram aren't necessarily the best filter for high performance street cars, but for 30 year old factory street engines and top fuel, they are more than fine. Just run the proper oil for the engine; not too heavy or too thin, and it should be fine with most any filter you can buy at O'Reilly's, NAPA, AutoZone, etc…
If it didn't matter then why wasn't he running a Motorcraft filter seeing that Ford was his sponsor? Or maybe an AC filter now that he is running a Chevy.
I mostly just want the John Force-branded signature tool carts....
Did anybody notice Ogre said about 4 (four) quarts, not five? I use the MobilOne 201 filter, which is about twice the size of the 52, but it still takes only about four quarts to fill to the line. Overfilling is not good, for reasons I don't exactly understand.
Forgive me, but I have yet to change the oil myself on either Fiero. Never get around to it, don't have a proper place, etc.
I ruined a Volvo engine flushing it with kerosene per something in the newspaper.
If I left the plug out overnight I'd surely forget some part of the procedure. Let the professionals mess it up.
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9: Did anybody notice Ogre said about 4 (four) quarts, not five? I use the MobilOne 201 filter, which is about twice the size of the 52, but it still takes only about four quarts to fill to the line. Overfilling is not good, for reasons I don't exactly understand. ... If I left the plug out overnight I'd surely forget some part of the procedure. Let the professionals mess it up.
Yup, Most are ~4q w/ short filter, ~4.5 max w/ long filters like ___3980 and older PF52. Current PF52 is short but longer then PF47. 84 before recall is ~3q. later owners manuals have wrong info and say 3q for 4cyl. (___ because 2-3 letter change depending on the brand etc.)
Overfilling can cause oil foam and oil burning from crack etc whipping the oil in the pan. This is not good. Oil Burning can kill the cat very fast.
Leaving out the plug to drip for hours/days doesn't matter much and can cause OP priming problems. A little dirty oil left in the engine doesn't matter after changing.
Changing oil w/ engine warm/hot makes quick draining but can make easy to burn you.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 12-06-2015).]
In all seriousness though. Sludge that an oil flush does dislodge could clog the oil pump pickup screen, causing more problems than it solves. You shouldn't have much build up as long as you change your oil every 3-5K. I wouldn't bother with oil flushes. And godforbid. If you have an automatic DON'T fluid flush the transmission.
I go 100% with this. What I normally do if i suspect some sludge buildup, like in a recent used car purchase, I drain enough oil to make it 1 quart low, and add a quart of automatic transmission fluid to the crankcase and drive it normally for 50-100 miles. The solvents in the fluid will disolve a lot of it and it will come out with the oil change. It wont hurt anything to do so, just thins the oil slightly. If you already have something like a bad rear main seal, it may cause it to start leaking just by cleaning the gunk off of it though. I NEVER mess with an automatic trans. I might clean the filter screen, but I put the original fluid I saved draining it, back in. I only add enough new fluid to top it back off. Any that had many miles on it I had always failed completely soon after a new fill or flush.
I go 100% with this. What I normally do if i suspect some sludge buildup, like in a recent used car purchase, I drain enough oil to make it 1 quart low, and add a quart of automatic transmission fluid to the crankcase and drive it normally for 50-100 miles. The solvents in the fluid will disolve a lot of it and it will come out with the oil change. It wont hurt anything to do so, just thins the oil slightly. If you already have something like a bad rear main seal, it may cause it to start leaking just by cleaning the gunk off of it though. I NEVER mess with an automatic trans. I might clean the filter screen, but I put the original fluid I saved draining it, back in. I only add enough new fluid to top it back off. Any that had many miles on it I had always failed completely soon after a new fill or flush.
My dad always used a quart of mystery oil after draining out about half a quart and would run the car for a few min then drain it. Always worked for him and me anyway., and I am now 60 years old.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-11-2015).]
If its excessivly dirty change it more often. Or you could run a better oil, Rotella T6 is still not black on the dipstick when I drain it at about 5k miles or 1 year. Rotella T6 is cheap at Walmart. Fill it to the full line on the dipstick. Dont make a lot of short trips, (less than 20 minutes) without a good long run in between to get moisture out. After draining mine I do pour maybe 1/2 quart of cheap new oil in the fill and let it run out, I figure if there is anything that wants to easily get out it will ride the river out .
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-11-2015).]
I always ran my car to get it hot before an oil change and then a mechanic friend of mine said drain it cold. it's been sitting and that way you'll be sure to get all the oil out. once you run it the dirty oil is everywhere in there and you'll never get it all out. last couple time i did the car i did it cold. just takes a little longer to stop dripping.
When I get a used car, I run some diesel oil in it for about 50-100 miles and change back to normal synthetic to clean out any gunk that might be stuffed in there. (When people sell their car, they typically do not put the best oil in the units)...
5 qts puts it right on the line, with a long filter, You are filling the oil filter up first and checking it after it has ran? before it is ran it looks like 4.5 is enough.
The easy way to stop sludge is don't use penzoil or quaker state, and change it every 3,000 miles, don't be cheap and go longer.
Originally posted by sardonyx247: The easy way to stop sludge is don't use penzoil or quaker state, and change it every 3,000 miles, don't be cheap and go longer.
I agree with the two brands you mentioned, but every 3,000 miles is a bit of over kill if you use a synthetic. Conventional oil, I agree with.
But synthetics most of the time are good for 5,000 miles. Mobil 1 high mileage will go to 7,500 miles and be just fine.
Originally posted by zzzhuh: I agree with the two brands you mentioned, but every 3,000 miles is a bit of over kill if you use a synthetic. Conventional oil, I agree with.
But synthetics most of the time are good for 5,000 miles. Mobil 1 high mileage will go to 7,500 miles and be just fine.
It depends on the engine/driver. On a 30 year old stock engine in a Fiero, even with full synthetic Royal Purple, the best thing to do is keep checking it, and change it when it needs it. On a modern engine from within the last decade, a quality full synthetic can last a very long time with less checking. Modern engines also have an oil life sensor in the pan, which estimates metal content in the oil, and can be used to make better guesses about when to change the oil, than just looking at the dipstick. But still, the oil change should be done when the engine needs it, not when one's wallet can deal with the $50 expense.
I always ran my car to get it hot before an oil change and then a mechanic friend of mine said drain it cold. it's been sitting and that way you'll be sure to get all the oil out. once you run it the dirty oil is everywhere in there and you'll never get it all out. last couple time i did the car i did it cold. just takes a little longer to stop dripping.
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