the clutch doesn't disengage fully. it's a spec stage 2 with about 6000 miles and it grips fine. i replaced the throwout bearing with the clutch. i raised the back of the car on ramps and bled everything i think. i was wondering if measuring the stroke of the clutch arm right where the piston rod meets it would be a good indicator ? if so, what should the stroke be? the piston rod starts to move as soon as the pedal is moved.
Measurement of the push rod travel is the best way...it should be just under 1" for a getrag slave cylinder....but odds are good you still have air in there no mater what the travel is.
the slave push rod travel was at least an inch,,,, until i let the reservoir level get low while bleeding them. my wife was pumping and holding the pedal while i bled. she should be pushing the pedal to the floor, i should be bleeding off the pressure, closing the bleeder and she should let the pedal up for another cycle right? just like bleeding breaks?
i have bled the system. i even disconnected the slave so i could tilt it up towards the bleed port and let it drain with the front end on stands. i gone through about 1 1/2 quarts of dot 3 . still the clutch pedal has to be hard to the carpet to disengage completly. i measured the stroke of the clutch arm at the slave rod / clutch arm socket . the arm moves about 3/4". anybody know what the stroke typically is? would there be anybody that could measure what theirs is? then i would know for sure. thanks
Step 1: Get a Rodney slave. I chased and chased and chased clutch problems. I bled probably a gallon of fluid through the thing using all sorts of techniques (gravity, pedal pushing, vacuum pump, combination) and NOTHING fixed my problem. Strap a Rodney slave on there and BOOM-- shifts like new ever since.
Clutch bleeding procedure You can do it your way, But this method always works for me. After checking to be sure there are no leaks in the Clutch Hydraulic system. Complete ALL of the following steps before test driving the car: 1) Install a helper in the drivers seat to push in and let out the clutch pedal on command. 2) Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder reservoir. 3) Top off fluid in the reservoir. 4) During the course of this procedure DO NOT allow the "helper" to "pump" the pedal. The "helper" is to depress and release the pedal on command only, DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL. (See theory below) 5) You will be opening and closing the bleed screw on the slave cylinder as instructed below. CAUTION: During this procedure protect your eyes from squirting brake fluid. 6) (Helper) Press clutch pedal in fully and hold. 7) (You) Open the bleed screw to allow fluid to escape. 8) (You) Close bleed screw. 9) (Helper) Release pedal completely 10) (You) Top off fluid in reservoir. 11) Repeat steps #6 thru #10 no less than 5 times before going to #12 below. NO PUMPING! 12) You have now bled the Master Cylinder and the hydraulic line. YOU ARE NOT DONE YET!!!!! We must now bleed the Slave cylinder. (This is what the manual doesn’t tell you) 13) With no further action to be done with the clutch pedal, you can no remove the "helper" from the drivers seat and have him (her/it) help you do the following. 14) After topping off the Master Cylinder, completely remove the bleed screw from the slave cylinder. 15) Have the "helper" stand at the ready with the bleed screw and the appropriate wrench for installing the bleed screw. 16) PROTECT YOUR EYES! 17) With the bleed screw removed. With both hands grab the push rod coming out of the slave cylinder and push it into the slave cylinder as far as it will go AND HOLD it in. 18) Your "helper" will now install and tighten the bleed screw while you hold the plunger in. 19) When bleed screw is tight release the rod and as it comes out guide it into the proper position on the clutch arm. 20) Top off the Reservoir and the job is complete.
You can bleed 10 gallons of fluid through there to no avail if air is being sucked in with every pedal release.
A Rodney dual-seal slave is great, but you also need to make sure you're getting enough stroke from the master. Where is your clutch pedal sitting at rest in relation to the brake pedal? It should be sitting about an inch higher.
You can bleed 10 gallons of fluid through there to no avail if air is being sucked in with every pedal release.
A Rodney dual-seal slave is great, but you also need to make sure you're getting enough stroke from the master. Where is your clutch pedal sitting at rest in relation to the brake pedal? It should be sitting about an inch higher.
3/4" is what it is. the clutch pedal is about 1/2" above break pedal. i can lift the clutch pedal about 1/2" more. thanks.
what is sufficient clutch arm movement? given that the system is positive displacement i would think it would be a standard, fixed minimum slave piston travel. anybody willing to measure? please
given that the system is positive displacement i would think it would be a standard, fixed minimum slave piston travel.
Sure, "positive displacement", assuming two things... that it's fluid and not air being displaced, and that you're getting full stroke of the master cylinder before the clutch pedal hits the floor.
I'm not 100% sure of the minimum slave movement required with a Getrag, but with the Isuzus and 4-spd Muncies it's just over an inch.
Sure, "positive displacement", assuming two things... that it's fluid and not air being displaced, and that you're getting full stroke of the master cylinder before the clutch pedal hits the floor.
I'm not 100% sure of the minimum slave movement required with a Getrag, but with the Isuzus and 4-spd Muncies it's just over an inch.
i have an 88 gt with a getrag. having the spec for the getrag let's me know what is required verses what i have. pat, do you have a getrag to measure?
I do... but it's awkward to measure without another person to lend a hand.
Someone recently posted what the required minimum slave movement for a Getrag was. If they don't chime in here tonight in this thread, I'll try and look it up.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-04-2016).]
Make sure you are not over pushing the throw out bearing. Archie at one time had a problem with some type of clutch that disengaged with less travel and re engaged with more travel. Put the car on the ground and rock it back and forth as you try different clutch pedal levels. May or may not be your problem but is worth looking at before you move on.
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3/4" is the lowest number I have read for Getrag slave cylinder travel. My slave cylinder push rod travels about .825".
thanks for that measurement. i must have something wrong with clutch or pressure plate or arm? we're only talking a 1/16th if an inch difference between your travel and mine. i'll try the whole rodney bleeding procedure and see if there's extra travel to be had. my pedal is all steel. i don't think it's bent. At what point does your clutch start to release?
we're only talking a 1/16th if an inch difference between your travel and mine.
It takes very little to make a difference between dis-engaging... and not.
quote
Originally posted by tomsablon:
my pedal is all steel. i don't think it's bent.
The pedal can bend (although it's usually the bracket that's attached to it that bends), the banjo can bend, the banjo can be a little too short (they're not all exactly the same length), the bushings can be worn, insulation can be piled up below the carpet under the clutch pedal... all can contribute to the master cylinder not delivering a full stroke of fluid to the slave.
It's usually air the system causing a problem, but not always.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-04-2016).]
It's very hard to see a bent pedal when it's in the car....but look for this condition.
I still remember taking that shot years ago and adding the graphics to it. Glad to see it's still being used here to show what actually bends on the clutch pedal.
It's very hard to see a bent pedal when it's in the car....but look for this condition.
that pic makes it crystal clear. i'll put a square on it and see if it's bent. you wouldn't think something that beefy could bend . if it is bent should i straighten it and weld some reinforcing to it? one other thing i noticed , there is a creaking noise inside the bell housing you can only hear when the engine is off while depressing the pedal. maybe that' normal?
Make sure you are not over pushing the throw out bearing. Archie at one time had a problem with some type of clutch that disengaged with less travel and re engaged with more travel. Put the car on the ground and rock it back and forth as you try different clutch pedal levels. May or may not be your problem but is worth looking at before you move on.
My Clutchnet clutch does this. I'm not exactly sure why it does, but the friction disc seems to be thicker than stock. I wonder if that has something to do with it.
That said, I also used to have a Spec Stage 2 clutch. And IIRC, it did not exhibit the above behavior.
installed the rodney slave. same problem. also noticed that it becomes slightly worse as i hold the clutch. when i release and depress, it's likely to disengage less. i checked the pedal . it all looks good. i'm wondering if the little check valve on the master is leaking back or not taking up as the pedal is released?
I bought the Rodney Dickman master clutch cylinder. Before I installed the new cylinder I carefully removed the old slave so i wouldn't get air in it . Then I used the "bench bleeder kit" that comes with the new cylinder to bench bleed the old cylinder to see if air was in it. ---No air in the old cylinder---.
I bench bled the new cylinder and then bled the lines through the bleed on the Rodney Dickman slave cylinder. The slave cylinder was installed a few weeks ago in order to try and solve the problem//which didn't help.
After taking up slack with the Rodney Dickman master clutch cylinder adjustable actuator arm that came on the new valve i gave it a try. *********what a difference. My clutch disengages after a third pedal travel. Works perfect .
The clutch arm travel where the slave rod meets the arm is now _1 1/8" inches_ verses the barely 3/4" i had before. that extra 1/4" or so of travel at least for mine is critical. I adjusted the master actuator arm just fooling around and found that with a little bit of play in the pedal the clutch disengages at about 1/2 pedal stroke and still gives 1" of clutch arm travel. This may be due to the Rodney Dickman master having more displacement? Whether or not it is relative the outside diameter of the new cylinder diameter is a about a 1/3.
I disassembled the old cast iron master which was replaced a couple of years ago . The inner piston seal was breaking down.
Thanks for the help people! Thanks Rodney for making a well engineered product.
