I've got an 87 GT that I bought back in Sept and have been restoring ever since. It has sat in my shop for the past few months and I noticed it was leaking transmission fluid from a bad bearing seal. Today I got around to changing said seal. That job went without a hitch, BUT it led to two possible issues that I would like some info on.
1. While the car was still on jack stands I started it and put it in gear. The passenger's side rear wheel spun no problem in 1 and R, but the driver's side did not. It moved slightly when the clutch was first released, but none after that. If I rev the engine it moves, and comes to a stop shortly after I let off the throttle. I'm thinking a brake pad hasn't seated properly? Should I bother to take it apart again, or just drive it and let the pad find its place?
2. This one is more concerning (or normal, never dealt with this transmission before). Before I changed the bearing seals it was difficult to get the car in 1 and R. 1 would take a bit of force to get it in, no grinding, but took more force than I would expect. More troubling, R would grind unless I jammed it into place. I attributed it to the transmission being low on fluid and thus being difficult to shift smoothly; however, the issue persists with the seals changed and the fluid topped off with 2Q of Valvoline Syncromesh. No issues with any other gear. I've got the clutch pedal all the way to the floor-- what are the chances it is not fully releasing? Any other ideas on this issue?
Unless there's a 'limited slip differential' the power goes to whatever wheel will turn easiest. It's not advisable to run in gear with the car jacked up due to the angles of the shafts. It's ok if the car is supported under the control arms.
I always shift from neutral into 1st before reverse to avoid the spinning gears grinding.
That still doesn't explain why you wish to use Castrol SRF. Do you bleed money?
IMO... way overkill for autocross.
I have a bit of loyalty to it. I was having bad brake issues with my GTO and SRF finally cured them after several failed attempts. I understand it's probably overkill, especially for a car 1000lbs lighter than the GTO, but I really like the product.... oh, and I have an extra quart laying around.
1. While the car was still on jack stands I started it and put it in gear. The passenger's side rear wheel spun no problem in 1 and R, but the driver's side did not.
This is perfectly normal for a stock transmission. Since the left axle is at a more acute angle than the right side (especially when the car is jacked up with the wheels hanging down), the right axle is going to spin more freely.
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2. This one is more concerning (or normal, never dealt with this transmission before). Before I changed the bearing seals it was difficult to get the car in 1 and R. 1 would take a bit of force to get it in, no grinding, but took more force than I would expect. More troubling, R would grind unless I jammed it into place.
Two things:
First of all, Reverse gear has no synchronizers. The car must be at a complete stop before you shift into Reverse, or you'll grind gears.
Second of all, your difficulty shifting into 1st and Reverse may be a cable adjustment issue. The select cable may need to be adjusted.
I drove the car today-- no indication of problem 1, but being on the ground I wouldn't expect it. I'll keep an eye on tire wear to see if that wheel is dragging. Problem #2 is alive an well, with issues getting into 1st gear from a stop, as well as downshifting to 2nd from 3rd. It goes, but it takes a LOT of effort to get there.
I drove the car today-- no indication of problem 1, but being on the ground I wouldn't expect it. I'll keep an eye on tire wear to see if that wheel is dragging.
I think it would be tough to gauge 'brake dragging' by tire wear...
Here's an easy way to check: after a normal drive, put your hand by each wheel and get a feeling of the heat coming from the discs. If they're all the same temperature, there's not likely any issue.
You can also check to see if the parking brake is working well on both sides: use the hand brake to come to a complete stop. If one side is working better than the other, the car will tend to twist to that side. You'll feel it.
Here's an easy way to check: after a normal drive, put your hand by each wheel and get a feeling of the heat coming from the discs.
I suppose access depends on the type of wheels on the car, but I quickly touch the back of one of my knuckles onto each rotor to determine if perhaps one caliper is dragging more than the others. It's surprising how hot a rotor can get with a dragging caliper on a relatively short drive!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-08-2015).]
I just went through the gears with the engine off, and had no issue. Then I cranked it up and with the clutch in (parked inside the shop) and it went through the gears fairly easily as well.
...the clutch moves to the top of the list when I get the car back.
I know you're saving that pricey Castrol SRF, but in the meantime, why don't you spring for some regular DOT 3 and bleed the clutch hydraulics? If nothing else, this will at least tell you if the clutch master and slave cylinders are okay before you introduce that expensive fluid.
I'm more concerned with the shifting. It was impossible to get into 1 from a stop. I had to put it in 2, get it rolling, then downshift.
Mine did this when I had 5W-30 in it. Seemed to work better once it warmed up. Changed to the GM Syncromesh oil and it is not as bad as it used to be. I remember coming to the first stop sign after starting it that day and many times there was no way was it going into first. After so many miles it seemed to be OK. With the Syncromesh that does not seem to happen anymore or it is greatly reduced.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
I put Valvoline branded Synchromesh in it. I imagine it can't be too far off chemically if they're using the Synchromesh name. I haven't driven the car very far as it is missing tail lights and a paint job, so it hasn't gotten warm.
On both mine and my uncles 88 GTs when coming to a stop we have to put our cars in second and then first gear before taking off... Always thought it was semi normal, and partly because we will both need clutches in the near future.
------------------ "Discord" Red 1988 GT under restoration!
I've been driving around for the past hour and it hasn't freed up at all. Very difficult and sometimes impossible to get into 1, and all gears engage with a clunk. Difficult to describe, but it's almost twangy the way it shifts.
I would bleed the clutch. If that wasn't it then buy new cables. I was having a similar problem also.. I bled the clutch and problem was gone. I'm in a new rebuild right now so I went and bought new cables anyway. Got them from Rodney dickman and can't wait to feel the difference now
...we have to put our cars in second and then first gear before taking off... Always thought it was semi normal...
IMO, that's semi-fubared. I have 10w-30 dino oil (and maybe an ounce of STP) in my '88 Formula's 5-spd Getrag, and it slips easily into any gear... including reverse. The secret is having a clutch that fully disengages!
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Originally posted by Shho13:
....and partly because we will both need clutches in the near future.
Having a worn clutch that doesn't grip well should actually make it less of a problem to shift into gear.
While t-shooting a brake pull problem I measured the brake disc temps after 55 mph on all four. The temps were uniform 250F measured with a KE "bead" type probe. You may get a different result with a gun. (Never did know what was causing pulling. But miraculously it stopped after a few hundred miles so I suspect pad contamination) . Due respect, but knuckles don't really tell the tale.
I talked to the PO. Master was replaced 7 months ago after experiencing similar issues to what I have. The first replaced he got was bad and was returned for the one that is currently on the car. This may be another defective part that took longer to fail.
The temps were uniform 250F measured with a KE "bead" type probe. You may get a different result with a gun... Due respect, but knuckles don't really tell the tale.
What can I say, my knucklesdid "tell the tale" on my '84 when I was resurrecting it years ago. But sure, it would be interesting to see a digital read-out of rotor temperatures.
Two more questions. What is the life expectancy of this transmission? Supposedly it's never been rebuilt and there's 294k on the odometer. Also, how feasible is it to run an F40 6 speed with a stock 2.8? If the Getrag goes I would consider upgrading the transmission instead of trying to replace it.
If one day your Muncie MG-282 fails, then I would recommend a Getrag F23. You can get F23 salvage units for only $100 - $1000 depending on mileage with the correct GM V6 60deg bell housing.
Acc. to experience reports the F23 is stronger than the MG-282.
If I could find a F23 with the correct bellhousing here in Austria, then I think wouldn´t rebuild my stock MG-282 tranny.
Regarding transmission life time I can only give you target lifetime values for modern car transmissions. But you know, this is not comparable with older cars/transmissions.
294k miles you have now? Even if someone of the previous owners has already rebuild your tranny, the next rebuild may come soon (bearings, synchros, etc.)! BTW, in most cases axle seal leaks are caused by worn diff carrier bearings! Have you checked diff bearing clearance?
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 11-13-2015).]
Originally posted by Patrick: IMO, that's semi-fubared. I have 10w-30 dino oil (and maybe an ounce of STP) in my '88 Formula's 5-spd Getrag, and it slips easily into any gear... including reverse. The secret is having a clutch that fully disengages! .
IMO these transmissions vary. Some are better, Some are worse with the going hard into first gearproblem. I've talked to many Getrag owners thru the years and always read the Getrag topics here. There are machining tolerances that can stack up all in one direction. Some clearances might be tighter in some of these Getrag 282 transmissions causing them to be harder to shift into first. Many years ago this was talked about a lot more. Maybe more have since used the syncromesh and have less problems to report. Or they have more miles on them and they have loosened up some. More than a few have called me thru the years complaining about the hard to get into first gear problem. Once the syncromesh oil came out I always tell them to switch to it. Few if any ever call back to say it helped or did not help. Helped mine a noticeable amount. Mine now has almost no resistance going into first gear even when cold. I remember how bad it was before I put in the syncromesh oil. Terrible.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
IMO these transmissions vary. Some are better, Some are worse...
Could be. The tranny in my Formula didn't even have the notorious Getrag rattle until one of the fellas at autocross tried to hard launch my Formula a couple of times in 3rd gear. Yep, that's all it took for that damn nuisance rattle to start.
IMO these transmissions vary. Some are better, Some are worse with the going hard into first gearproblem. I've talked to many Getrag owners thru the years and always read the Getrag topics here. There are machining tolerances that can stack up all in one direction. Some clearances might be tighter in some of these Getrag 282 transmissions causing them to be harder to shift into first. Many years ago this was talked about a lot more. Maybe more have since used the syncromesh and have less problems to report. Or they have more miles on them and they have loosened up some. More than a few have called me thru the years complaining about the hard to get into first gear problem. Once the syncromesh oil came out I always tell them to switch to it. Few if any ever call back to say it helped or did not help. Helped mine a noticeable amount. Mine now has almost no resistance going into first gear even when cold. I remember how bad it was before I put in the syncromesh oil. Terrible.
I'm still having the problem WITH syncromesh fluid. It did seem to get marginally better after a while driving around, though I'm not sure about any long term improvement. What would you suggest I attack first? Seems like leading candidates here are the clutch or shift cables. I'm thinking it's not the clutch, as going from 2 to 3 to 4 is very smooth and problem free. Going BACK to 2 and into 1 is a problem. 5 isn't a problem, but R is.
Shift problems into 1st and 2nd are generic in all the manuals I have had. Perhaps related to mismatches into 1st and hurried shifts into 2nd. Using brakes rather than engine during stops will prolong the action, I believe. The Pennzoil synchromesh lubricant made a real difference in both my Getrag and NX 2000. I had held off for years fearing attack on the yellow metal, however I have read that the chemists have controlled the EP additive packs so we can have our cake... Has worked for me. GL 4 is molasses!
As I bought my first Fiero (´87 SE) it was very hard to move the shift stick in side direction (left to right). As I have replaced the selector cable (cheap one from Amazon) the problem was solved.
I can also remember that it was always a little harder to engage the 1st gear than all others. However, my ´87 Fiero never shifted so easy like my ´88 GT (BTW, my ´88 Fiero shift easily into 1st). Maybe I should also have replaced the other shift cable on the ´87 Fiero.
The interesting thing is that the tranny of ´87 was filled with thin 5W30 engine oil, and my ´88 Fierro’s transmission runs with 75W90 synthetic transmission oil (GL4).
My ´88 Fiero with higher viscosity oil shifts easier than my ´87 Fiero with thin 5W30! Therefore, I would say the transmission oil has only a slight influence on shifting effort.
There are Getrag transmissions which shift easy into 1st gear and others not. Each transmission is different, there´re different tolerances, etc. A transmission with “bad tolerances” can lead to higher friction on some contact surfaces and thus it shifts with more resistance.
FYI: I run 75W90 in order to reduce the axle seal leakage. But of course not only leakage is reduced with higher viscosity oil, it also improves resistance to flank scuffing, pitting and improves bearing lifetime. Therefore, I run 75W90 now.
[This message has been edited by Moar (edited 11-15-2015).]
Do you bleed money? 
, but in the meantime, why don't you spring for some regular DOT 3 and bleed the clutch hydraulics? If nothing else, this will at least tell you if the clutch master and slave cylinders are okay before you introduce that expensive fluid.
Yep, that's all it took for that damn nuisance rattle to start. 
