Like many of you I usually have a few old batteries in the garage lying around that had died in storage. I would often keep them as trade in cores but with the recent heavy spike in battery prices I use an old restoration trick on my dead stock and some batteries came back to life. Before the battery I restored today read 4 V and would not take a charge. After restoration and a charge the battery now reads 12.6V and easily starts a car. Here is the process that I got from one of the old timers in the hobby. Take the old battery, take out the filler caps, turn it over and drain out all of the water. Dead batteries will have only water in them as the sulphuric acid has been converted and stored on the plates. Now make a solution of 6 heaping teaspoons of Baking Soda (Sodium Bicarbonate) in one gallon of tap water. Use an old clean plastic gallon jug with a cap and shake the mixture well so that all of the baking soda is disolved. Now pour the liquid into the battery filling up all cells to the top. Let the mixture sit for a five minutes. (You will see bubblng from all the cell openings) Next turn the battery over and let the baking soda water completely pour out. Shake the battery to get it all out. Now get the garden hose and fill the battery cells to the top and spill out the rinse. Do this three times until the water is clear and on the final rinse drain the battery dry. Now get a gallon of distilled water and put in six teaspoons of Epson salts. ( Magnesium sulphate) Shake the jug. Pour the mixture into each cell to the fill line. When all the plates are covered put it on the charger for 60 minutes at the highest setting. I use 65 amps. After about 30 minutes the charger gauge should indicate that the battery is taking a charge. Leave the charge on for another 45 minutes. Now measure the battery voltage . If its 12.6 volts you should have a full charge. If 12.3 V you are about half charged and will need to keep it on the charger longer. This process has worked to restore my stored dead batteries about 65% of the time. If when washing the battery cells in the baking soda water (and shaking it to get the water out) you hear loads of crud rattling about inside the battery, that indicates mechanical damage and the battery cannot be restored. If a battery was frozen and the plates buckled, the method may or may not work. If a battery dies while in use on a car this method may or may not rejuvenate it but its cheap to do and IMO worth trying. Since the Obama administrations EPA closed the last remaining lead smelting plant in the USA this year, battery prices are now $100-up in my area. We need to use restoration technique to save money and here is one that has worked for me.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 11-02-2015).]
Now get a gallon of distilled water and put in six teaspoons of Epson salts. ( Magnesium sulphate)...
YouTube is crawling with 12v battery reconditioning videos, but this guy made sense to me. Might be worthwhile watching before trying Epson salts, etc.
YouTube is crawling with 12v battery reconditioning videos, but this guy made sense to me. Might be worthwhile watching before trying Epson salts, etc.
My method worked well but its always beneficial looking into perhaps more effective solutions. I have reservation about the method outlined in this video . While it might work I don't believe that most people want to keep a battery on charge for days on end. The restoration that I did was chemical based (using safe compounds), inexpensive and takes about 20 minutes to do before you charge normally. If we can recover only 50% of the stored batteries that we have on hand that represents a considerable savings. UPDATE: As of this morning the battery tested as fully charged at 12.72V. That's a full charge on a battery that has been sitting outside for five months. ------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-24-2016).]
That is a fair question and we will eventually find out. I believe that the battery that I just restored has sound plates and no internal damage. All we did was to clean it up, remove the sulfation, refill with distilled water and recharge. Its holding steady at 12.7 Volts-full charge. Remarkable since the battery has been sitting outside for 5 months. I see no reason why we can't get some service life from it. I am estimating 1-2 years but that's a guess. The real test will be during winter cold weather when battery capacity is really taxed.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
While it might work I don't believe that most people want to keep a battery on charge for days on end.
"Days on end" probably only applies to batteries that have been dead for years.
I'm currently trying the procedure shown in the video on two different batteries. The first battery is one that didn't seem to want to hold a charge for more than a week at a time. Putting it on the charger overnight is sufficient to bring it up enough to then do the discharge part of the procedure. I'm in the middle of cycling through these steps a few times to see if the battery improves. So far it's looking good.
The second battery has been dead and sitting for a half-dozen years. I'm not optimistic about restoring this one, but I'll give it a go just out of curiosity.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-03-2015).]
If we can cure the zombie once once in a while that is a major achievement. Have you priced a new auto battery of late? They are $100+ a pop. That's not chump change. Just a few years ago we use to buy new batteries for $60. Now they are 55% higher in price. Nothing wrong with saving a few bucks. Restored battery still holding 100% charge.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I found that you can buy new batteries online, with a coupon (Autozone, Advance) and pick them up at the store. Savings is usually $20-$30 doing it this way. FYI.
I don't doubt this will work for some people. I would be concerned with wearing protective equipment when messing with battery chargers and old batteries.
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: If we can cure the zombie once once in a while that is a major achievement. Have you priced a new auto battery of late? They are $100+ a pop. That's not chump change. Just a few years ago we use to buy new batteries for $60. Now they are 55% higher in price. Nothing wrong with saving a few bucks. Restored battery still holding 100% charge.
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: That is a fair question and we will eventually find out. I believe that the battery that I just restored has sound plates and no internal damage. All we did was to clean it up, remove the sulfation, refill with distilled water and recharge. Its holding steady at 12.7 Volts-full charge. Remarkable since the battery has been sitting outside for 5 months. I see no reason why we can't get some service life from it. I am estimating 1-2 years but that's a guess. The real test will be during winter cold weather when battery capacity is really taxed.
Right off the charger or in a car after running a good battery should be 13.1-13.7 volts and stay up often for hours or more.
Low batteries have weak electrolyte and can freeze up. 10°F and up is easy.
You need an accurate hygrometer to find electrolyte strength. Simple 3-4 "BB" ones that most people have won't do for this. Good ones will measure the temperature and the strength because temperature affects the float. Without that than most are accurate only when the electrolyte is that room temperature or about 70 to 80° F.
Or go digital or get a refractometer.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
Hi guys, This is a little sideline to this topic, but I found an interesting thing when you run your battery down (say with lights on for example)...
Take an aspirin and split it and then grind it up into a powder. Put one of these half-aspirins in each cell of the battery. Wait a little while. Car will start (maybe not like a new or good one, but it will give it a crank or two).
I am not sure of the chemical reasoning for this, but it helped when I left my park lights on once. I was told this by an old mechanic and have kept small bottle of then in my glovebox since just in case.
Hi guys, This is a little sideline to this topic, but I found an interesting thing when you run your battery down (say with lights on for example)...
Take an aspirin and split it and then grind it up into a powder. Put one of these half-aspirins in each cell of the battery. Wait a little while. Car will start (maybe not like a new or good one, but it will give it a crank or two).
I am not sure of the chemical reasoning for this, but it helped when I left my park lights on once. I was told this by an old mechanic and have kept small bottle of then in my glovebox since just in case.
Anyone ever heard this idea before?
Never heard of this one, but batteries do work with an electro-chemical process. Aspirin is acetylsalicylic acid, a salicylate. As such I have no idea how this would influence a battery charge or restoration or a lead acid cell. My opinion is that it would have a negative long term effect. Update: 5 days later and the battery is still holding a charge. I notice that the battery takes a better charge from the car alternator than it does from a battery charger. It could be the the DC put out by the alternator is purer that what the charger puts out.
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 11-07-2015).]
Hi guys, This is a little sideline to this topic, but I found an interesting thing when you run your battery down (say with lights on for example)...
Take an aspirin and split it and then grind it up into a powder. Put one of these half-aspirins in each cell of the battery. Wait a little while. Car will start (maybe not like a new or good one, but it will give it a crank or two).
I am not sure of the chemical reasoning for this, but it helped when I left my park lights on once. I was told this by an old mechanic and have kept small bottle of then in my glovebox since just in case.
Anyone ever heard this idea before?
Yup.. but I can't see where it would help... chemically speaking. Maybe on an old 6v, or something... maybe...
One of my Stored Dead Batteries that I would like to try this procedure on is a Optima Red Top, but it does not seem to have any cell fill caps.
Are these Optima Batteries permanently sealed closed during manufacturing, and not able to drain and refill?
Optima batteries are hermetically sealed plus they are gel cell batteries. I doubt if there is much that you can do to restore via the chemical method but the charge procedure outlined in the video might work
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Optima batteries are hermetically sealed plus they are gel cell batteries. I doubt if there is much that you can do to restore via the chemical method but the charge procedure outlined in the video might work.
No. Optima batteries are spiral wound Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) types and Does use Wet Acid same as normal car battery. "Flat Cell" setup are sold under DieHard Advanced Gold AGM Battery and others.
quote
Originally posted by hdryder: One of my Stored Dead Batteries that I would like to try this procedure on is a Optima Red Top, but it does not seem to have any cell fill caps. Are these Optima Batteries permanently sealed closed during manufacturing, and not able to drain and refill?
Yes. AGM do not have flooded cells. You can breaking the plastic w/o leaking much or any acid and why many repeat the Myth they are Gell types. You can't get them to leak etc because the separator is a "sponge" that keeps wet acid traps inside.
Optima batteries are hermetically sealed plus they are gel cell batteries. I doubt if there is much that you can do to restore via the chemical method but the charge procedure outlined in the video might work
That's what I was thinking, but since I did not buy this battery new and I came in a car I bought, I was not really sure about the Optima units.
I do have a Duralast Gold and an EverStart dead cores that I will try.
Will anything detrimental happen if the Baking Soda stays in longer than 5 minutes? Would it help any more with the additional time?
AGM Batteries, like the Optima series, requires a specific method for restoring a depleted battery. I've used it and it seems to work. Here's the tech tip from the Optima site.
Originally posted by darbysan: AGM Batteries, like the Optima series, requires a specific method for restoring a depleted battery. I've used it and it seems to work. Here's the tech tip from the Optima site.
This is done so "smart" charges will work. Most will see a bad battery and won't charge at all. If you try this do it outside because could damage the good one and any out gassing hydrogen can catch fire or explode.
I would like to add since I've done this many times. When buying Epson Salts, DO NOT USE THE FRAGRANCED KIND of Epson Salts. The Fragranced kind such as Epson Salts with Lavender makes the battery over-volatile and an explosion hazard for about 6 hours. Believe me I know from experience. Remember Regular is fine Fragranced is potential bomb.
I would like to add since I've done this many times. When buying Epson Salts, DO NOT USE THE FRAGRANCED KIND of Epson Salts. The Fragranced kind such as Epson Salts with Lavender makes the battery over-volatile and an explosion hazard for about 6 hours. Believe me I know from experience. Remember Regular is fine Fragranced is potential bomb.
Do you first dump the old battery water out, neutralize with water baking soda mixture and wash before filling with distilled water w a few teaspoons of epson salts or do you just add epson salts and recharge?
Everyone has their own priorities, but a bit of effort to save a hundred bucks is worth it to me.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I'm currently trying the procedure shown in the video on two different batteries. The first battery is one that didn't seem to want to hold a charge for more than a week at a time. Putting it on the charger overnight is sufficient to bring it up enough to then do the discharge part of the procedure. I'm in the middle of cycling through these steps a few times to see if the battery improves. So far it's looking good.
The second battery has been dead and sitting for a half-dozen years. I'm not optimistic about restoring this one, but I'll give it a go just out of curiosity.
I gave up on the long dead battery, but I ended up putting the better "dead" battery in my '94 Elantra which often sits for extended periods of time. (I normally drive my Formula unless I need more than two seats, etc.) I was concerned when the temperature dropped below freezing here a few days ago (and continues to do so each night) that this would kill an "iffy" battery. So far, the battery's fine. The Elantra cranks over quickly on minus 3°C mornings. I'm pleased with the results.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-29-2015).]
Yeah, I've noticed car batteries are getting way too expensive.
They typically last about four years up here regardless of the type you buy. When I get a new one I get around 14 volts (I have a pretty accurate volt meter on the car) and each year it drops about a half a volt.
So can I rejuvenate a battery using this method?
I don't take chances up here in the north. The last thing I need is to come out and find a dead battery when it's twenty below outside.
I don't know if you're asking Dennis about the method he described, or asking me about the method I posted a YouTube link to... but rejuvenating a battery is what this thread is all about.
I can't speak to the method that Dennis was discussing, but the method I used was to improve the performance of a sulfated battery.
Two separate methods were brought out in this post and according to the results, both seem to work. I am no chemist but the H2O bicarbonate of soda washout method apparently works by neutralizing the acid sulfate on the plates. The other method works by electrical process. So how did the method that I used work? Remember I started with a battery that was left outside dead for 5 months. As of today (about 1 month later) the battery is still holding a charge and starting the car. I suspect that it doesn't have the same capacity as when it was new, but it does start the car. The real test will be when the temperatures drop below freezing. Last night it was 25*F up here and when I started the car it was around 46*F. All that I can say is so far so good.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Success!!!!! Thought that it was time for an update . After the battery restore, let car sit for five months. Went out today, put the key in and it started right up. I believe that as long as your battery does not have internal damage the dump out/ clean out, rinsing with bicarbonate of soda/water, dumping that out, rising with plain water , dumping that out, refilling with distilled water with a bit of Epson salts in it then charging will do the trick. Worked great for me and saved about $90 for a new battery. Got another battery here that has lots of stuff shaking around it it and I've decided that it is scrap but another one that looks pretty good will be restored next week.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-24-2016).]
And on a related note... make sure you haven't got a higher than normal battery drain. I finally took the time to track down the one I had in my non-Fiero.
Like many of you I usually have a few old batteries in the garage lying around that had died in storage. I would often keep them as trade in cores but with the recent heavy spike in battery prices I use an old restoration trick on my dead stock and some batteries came back to life.
Thanks for taking the time to share, but after the first few sentences I knew it was too much work for me. Like most of us I have several dead batteries laying around. I would rather trade them in for the $10 core then go through all that work with dangerous chemicals.
Thanks for taking the time to share, but after the first few sentences I knew it was too much work for me. Like most of us I have several dead batteries laying around. I would rather trade them in for the $10 core then go through all that work with dangerous chemicals.
Not that much work to restore a structurally sound DEAD battery and IMO not extremely dangerous. Just to be safe though wear safety glasses , work clothing and vinyl gloves. We are working with dead batteries here. A batteries electrolyte in a dead condition is mostly water or a very weak acid. The electrolyte in a fully charged battery is concentrated sulfuric acid. Once you neutralize the dead battery with the bicarbonate of soda water, the battery is relatively safe. The drained water can be neutralized too but since it is mostly water its probably safe to discard. What I have found is that this method works great but it doesn't give instant results.The battery has to undergo several charge/ discharge cycles to come up to speed. If it worked on a battery that laid outside for a year the method probably has merit. TIP; After you have emptied the battery, then filled it with the bicarbonate of soda water mix and emptied it again; Shake the empty battery around. If you hear lots of loose stuff shaking around at the bottom don't go any further. The battery is toast.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
My Fiero battery is two-half years old. From 14.5 volts when she was new to 12.5 volts now. Typical of my experience with batteries, I lose about a volt a year, and at four years need a new one.
Instead of the Epson salt mixture can you refill with regular sulfuric acid?
I also heard, from a friend who as a engineer in the Navy, that you should remove the caps and overcharge the battery. The whole theory behind all these methods, as he explained to me, is that the battery loses it charge because the surface area on the cells is diminished by sulfur oxidation. Once that is removed, even by mechanical means, maybe even hitting the battery it regains a charge.
My Fiero battery is two-half years old. From 14.5 volts when she was new to 12.5 volts now. Typical of my experience with batteries, I lose about a volt a year, and at four years need a new one.
Instead of the Epson salt mixture can you refill with regular sulfuric acid?
I also heard, from a friend who as a engineer in the Navy, that you should remove the caps and overcharge the battery. The whole theory behind all these methods, as he explained to me, is that the battery loses it charge because the surface area on the cells is diminished by sulfur oxidation. Once that is removed, even by mechanical means, maybe even hitting the battery it regains a charge.
The way I understand it, sulfuric acid in a dead battery has already absorbed into the plates. After the neutralizing washout, I would only add distilled water + a little epson salts before re-charging. If you add sulfuric acid afterwards, I believe that you will kill the battery. BTW, the battery that I restored last year is still starting the car but when it sits I disconnect the battery. There is some drain for the radio clock and ECM that will with time discharge it.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
I mentioned my car sitting still for long periods and he said that the overcharging also functioned to mix the battery fluid up. The electrolyte will layer, stratify, and the upper portion of the cells will go dry. The bubbling not only mixes up the fluid, but also knocks off the crude on the plates.
Like I said he was in the Navy and maintaining batteries on a ship was a big deal and also his job. We are so use to maintenance free everything we just assume you purchase another when they are dead.
Also, but only for NiCads, you can use an electric welder to restore them but a similar means. The jolt knocks of the crystals that form on the cells. Never tried it, but way not!
I mentioned my car sitting still for long periods and he said that the overcharging also functioned to mix the battery fluid up. The electrolyte will layer, stratify, and the upper portion of the cells will go dry. The bubbling not only mixes up the fluid, but also knocks off the crude on the plates.
Like I said he was in the Navy and maintaining batteries on a ship was a big deal and also his job. We are so use to maintenance free everything we just assume you purchase another when they are dead.
Also, but only for NiCads, you can use an electric welder to restore them but a similar means. The jolt knocks of the crystals that form on the cells. Never tried it, but way not!
There is a way to de-sulfate a battery by pulse charging but my method has worked so I'll stick with it. As for attaching an electric welder to a battery the question is why not? Answer: because the battery might explode in your face!! We can discuss this at Carlisle. It will be the largest Fiero show in the area this year by far.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Spintech/Hedman Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
