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How to: C4 Corvette Tail lights with dimming LED rings by mr_corean
Started on: 10-06-2015 07:13 AM
Replies: 14 (742 views)
Last post by: theogre on 10-09-2015 12:04 AM
mr_corean
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Report this Post10-06-2015 07:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mr_coreanSend a Private Message to mr_coreanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
https://youtu.be/NWGh0O4cBrw

Here is the video I just finished up on my tail lights. I have a corvette tail light panel from Doug at Fiero Warehouse and made this little setup to give the lights an even more custom look. The way it works is the original Corvette bulb only works as a blinker, the LED ring around it is the marker and brake lights. I built a simple little circuit that dims the ring for the marker lights and then provides full power and brightness to it when you hit the brakes. It's all explained in the video. I have some LED bulbs for the backups and blinkers coming in too. I'll post an update on here with those in when they get here. Basically the blinker and backups will be brighter and whiter is all.

If you can solder then this is a super easy project. If you can't solder then watch a 2 minute youtube video and you will be able to. Solder irons are ten bucks at Walmart. Any questions hit me up and I can help you out. This can be adapted to other setups as well if you want to use them for that.
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mr_corean
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Report this Post10-06-2015 07:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mr_coreanSend a Private Message to mr_coreanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This probably should have gone in the How to section, sorry about that. Feel free to move it if you'd like, Cliff.
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Sage
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Report this Post10-06-2015 08:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SageSend a Private Message to SageEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Excellent!

Do you have a build thread on your car?

HAGO!
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theogre
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Report this Post10-06-2015 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry but you can fail inspection and cops could stop you for wired like this.

Red Marker lights for All Fiero are on rear side behind rear tire well.
What you call running lights are parking/taillights and required by law to be dimmer than stop or turn lights.

1157, 2057, and others have a dim and bright Filaments... See my Cave, Lighbulbs
Parking/Taillights are all connected to the Brown wire and goes to "dim" side of bulb.
Stop/Turn goes to "bright" side of bulb.

86+
Stop Turn functions are easy to program and cost little to nothing for fastback GT or SE/Coupe that uses one bulb for both functions. Program is done by simple jumper (SE) or lack of (GT) on C500 between H8 and G7.

84 and 85 is harder because they are all built with Notch back taillights if they convert to fastback.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-06-2015).]

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mr_corean
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Report this Post10-06-2015 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mr_coreanSend a Private Message to mr_coreanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Sorry but you can fail inspection and cops could stop you for wired like this.

Red Marker lights for All Fiero are on rear side behind rear tire well.
What you call running lights are parking/taillights and required by law to be dimmer than stop or turn lights.

1157, 2057, and others have a dim and bright Filaments... See my Cave, Lighbulbs
Parking/Taillights are all connected to the Brown wire and goes to "dim" side of bulb.
Stop/Turn goes to "bright" side of bulb.

86+
Stop Turn functions are easy to program and cost little to nothing for fastback GT or SE/Coupe that uses one bulb for both functions. Program is done by simple jumper (SE) or lack of (GT) on C500 between H8 and G7.

84 and 85 is harder because they are all built with Notch back taillights if they convert to fastback.



This setup fully meets the requirements that you posted.

While driving with the lights on the rings are the only things illuminated, (unless in reverse in which case the reverse lights are on as well), and the power going to them is provided by the brown wire traveling through the 270 ohm resistor. Because of the resistor the rings are significantly dimmer. When compared to my wife's bone stock 2011 Chevy Equinox the difference in brightness between her tail lights and mine is indistinguishable. When you step on the brakes the rings receive power from the blue wire, which is the brake wire, and since the circuit from that wire doesn't have a resistor the ring receives full power and lights up completely being significantly brighter then when receiving power only from the brown wire. I'll put a little paint drawing below that shows it all in case the video didn't make it completely clear. The blinkers being in the middle of the ring makes it so that when the brakes or running lights are the only things on then the ring is truly a ring with a dead space in the middle. When you have a turn signal on as well it lights up the middle of the housing creating a complete circle with the ring. Granted the center of the circle is blinking.

All the modifications to this set up are at the bulb and nothing is needed to be changed anywhere else on the car. I personally changed to the Corvette bulb sockets, but the Fiero ones fit just fine, they just don't have the lock so they could potentially twist around in the housing. I ran the Fiero sockets for quite some time and never had any issues though. If you left the stock Fiero bulbs all you would need to do is put a blinker in the corvette housing and wire the ring as I showed in the video. Only cutting needing to be done with that set up is one tail light per side. Everything else remains in place should you want to go back to stock.



Edit to get picture down to a reasonable size.

[This message has been edited by mr_corean (edited 10-06-2015).]

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JohnWPB
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Report this Post10-06-2015 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great job on the tutorial! I have been going back and forth trying to decide of I wanna keep the stock tail lights, or go to 4 rounds ones as you have done.

 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Sorry but you can fail inspection and cops could stop you for wired like this.


I have to ask, do you work for the DOT / Law Enforcement? Every post that has anything whatsoever to do with side markers, headlights, tail lights, reproduction tail lights ect, you post that they are illegal. I am sure some of them are not legal. But I think after so many repetitive posts, or so, people understand that they are doing changes / making improvements for "Off Road Use Only"

[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 10-06-2015).]

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theogre
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Report this Post10-06-2015 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mr_corean:
This setup fully meets the requirements that you posted.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

So ring is brake light And Bulb is Turn signal?
And you say did nothing else...
Sorry but No. Still fails etc in most places.

LED could pass for taillight but you can't treat Red turn the same as Amber turn.

GM setup is: Red turn interrupts Red Brake light. IOW Red turn active then Brake is off on that side.
Hazard usually is opposite... Red hazard on then hit the brake and both rear will turn on full while brake pedal is pushed.
GM and Every other brand is same when they use red only and Is why GM put the jumper on C500 w/ notch back lights. That simple jumper is a Quick way to "program" the setup for light use for SE/coupe or GT.\
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

(88 is close... they move Big B to C500 G7 )

The fix is simple:
Jumper/splice G7 and H8 wires at C500. Easier to do this on body side of C500 since most won't have extra C500 pins.
Cut brake wire and ignore. (Make sure cut ends can't short.)
Move Turn signal wire to light the bright side of bulb.
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mr_corean
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Report this Post10-07-2015 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mr_coreanSend a Private Message to mr_coreanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

So ring is brake light And Bulb is Turn signal?
And you say did nothing else...
Sorry but No. Still fails etc in most places.

LED could pass for taillight but you can't treat Red turn the same as Amber turn.

GM setup is: Red turn interrupts Red Brake light. IOW Red turn active then Brake is off on that side.
Hazard usually is opposite... Red hazard on then hit the brake and both rear will turn on full while brake pedal is pushed.
GM and Every other brand is same when they use red only and Is why GM put the jumper on C500 w/ notch back lights. That simple jumper is a Quick way to "program" the setup for light use for SE/coupe or GT.\
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE

(88 is close... they move Big B to C500 G7 )

The fix is simple:
Jumper/splice G7 and H8 wires at C500. Easier to do this on body side of C500 since most won't have extra C500 pins.
Cut brake wire and ignore. (Make sure cut ends can't short.)
Move Turn signal wire to light the bright side of bulb.


I gotcha on the color of the bulb and you are probably correct on that. I actually wanted to run four back up style lenses and put amber bulbs in the outside housings but because of the reflective red part of the housing I couldn't make the rings sharp. Instead the light just bled all over the place. If anyone knows of a light housing that doesn't have that reflective part and still has the clear center section then I would love to hear about it.
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thesameguy
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Report this Post10-07-2015 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How can amber vs. red be illegal? Mountains of cars have no amber lights whatsoever, and sometimes manufacturers switch within a single model in a single year based on trim. I think an example is the Focus SVT - regular Focus has a red turn signal, SVT has an amber. I think Honda did the same thing with the Civic Si vs. all the other Civics.

Pretty sure the color is not the issue - red or amber are both acceptable in the US. The issue is that all lighting has to be DOT approved, and if it's not it's illegal. Given how many people ran around with knock-off "Altezza-style" lights back in the Fast & Furious age, I think it's far to say nobody really cares.
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Report this Post10-07-2015 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:
I have to ask, do you work for the DOT / Law Enforcement? Every post that has anything whatsoever to do with side markers, headlights, tail lights, reproduction tail lights ect, you post that they are illegal. I am sure some of them are not legal. But I think after so many repetitive posts, or so, people understand that they are doing changes / making improvements for "Off Road Use Only"
You don't have to be a expert but can be hard to find good info. I have been dealing w/ lighting issues for Many years.

Many have problems passing inspection or stopped by cops for light issues. While "funny" for TV shows and Ads, like GEICO Pig Pulled Over, the Reality is that ANY lighting issues can get you stop then cop could just warn or ticket you for that or can go fishing for other problems for bigger tickets, impound the car and/or arrest you. Example: Get stopped by Philly cops for dead lamp then can't find current Insurance card? Cop can forget about ticketing for the dead bulb because they can tow your car on the spot thanks to Philly's Live Stop BS. That cost ~$200 or more.
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Report this Post10-07-2015 05:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

theogre

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Member since Mar 99
 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:
How can amber vs. red be illegal? Mountains of cars have no amber lights whatsoever, and sometimes manufacturers switch within a single model in a single year based on trim. I think an example is the Focus SVT - regular Focus has a red turn signal, SVT has an amber. I think Honda did the same thing with the Civic Si vs. all the other Civics.

Pretty sure the color is not the issue - red or amber are both acceptable in the US. The issue is that all lighting has to be DOT approved, and if it's not it's illegal. Given how many people ran around with knock-off "Altezza-style" lights back in the Fast & Furious age, I think it's far to say nobody really cares.
Both colors are legal and wiring is different to make them work. Even on cars w/ close to same trim.

Amber Turn CAN work at the same when Red Brake is on because other drivers can see the different colors. Amber is turn signal regardless Red brake is on/off or whatever. Even tho a light meter shows same output, Amber is brighter then Red to most people so very hard to confuse the two.

Almost all cars and trucks sold in the U.S... (Might be a few exception but I've never seen one.) On the side w/ active turn signal, Red Turn will Cancel Red Brake to prevent confusing other drivers.
Because Many times the brake light blink too when people slow down or stopping because people don't push the pedal constantly. When that happens, w/o canceling the Red brake, hitting turn signal to change lanes etc often can not be seen by or confusing to other drivers.

That's what the problem is here...
GT wiring was "legal" for use with Amber turn but now trying to use Red Turn on same wiring, Worse in same small light fixture.
Even ignoring legal issues, Both red stop and turn lights on GT wiring in same fixture on the highway is a very good way to wreck the car.
If the jumper fix is done then Red turn/brake should be safe, pass most places and cops should not bother him.
Trailer adapter was never needed for this. Just the jumper at C500 will reprogram the car to work Red turn/stop light.

DOT Approved?
My guess the Corvette DOT "SAE codes" molded on the lens is IST or ISTA for the one w/ LED and R or RA for backup light. Dim Ring should pass as Taillight(T) and Bright Side Bulb should pass as turn/hazard(I) and stop(S). Should for both because he added LED. If that fixture has A then technically the ring is illegal. (Ring etc directly under reflector but most won't bother.)
Before you ask... backup up = R and reflector = A. The rest should be: year mold was design/made, maker of part, and GM code for model line the lamp was design for.
SAE codes are standard worldwide. See NHTSA Truck_Bus_MPV Poster

Fact is DOT/NHTSA does NOT approve anything. They only test when whatever has problem for investigating a Recall.
NHTSA did order APC and other to recall many illegal "Altezza-style" lights. see http://fmvss108.tripod.com/ if needed you have to search NHTSA of new links for Recall info.
Some Fools won't care until they have problem get thru inspections, cops stopping them, or dealing insurance/sued after a wreck. Many will whine to the planet and they did nothing wrong, Cops hate ___, etc.

(Edit to add small fixture)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 10-07-2015).]

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Report this Post10-07-2015 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am not sure I followed what you said, but if you are suggesting that red brake lights and red turn signals are not on at the same time you are mistaken. There are numerous cars where this doesn't happen, a number of Hondas and Toyotas come to mind as well as a lot of recent BMWs. The only time the signal cancels the brake is where there is only one bulb. When there are discrete bulbs for turn and brake, there is no reason for one to cancel the other.
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Report this Post10-07-2015 08:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mr_coreanSend a Private Message to mr_coreanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm not really worried about being stopped for the lights. From the outside they look and operate completely stock. Also I live in las Vegas and it's pretty common place for cars to be running green or purple headlights, let alone red and blue blinkers. Thought that was all illegal too but no one seems to care.
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Report this Post10-08-2015 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
... issues can get you stop then cop could just warn or ticket you for that or can go fishing for other problems for bigger tickets, impound the car and/or arrest you.

No front plate in Ohio is another common issue for fishing for other larger ticket issues. Drill it or risk how they feel about no plate or your plate placement.
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theogre
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Report this Post10-09-2015 12:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:
The only time the signal cancels the brake is where there is only one bulb.

Yes, is what his Corvette set is design for. (Newer have Backup light near the tag.)
Most factory SM I've seen don't have discrete reds so might be true. Said maybe exceptions. Fiero coupe and others have 2-3 reds but all in same fixture or too close to counted as discrete or GM and other doesn't use them as discrete. New Corvette is cheaper to make One lens assembly and wire both fixture the same.

This is from ebay 84-90 Corvette taillight Looks close to above then I flipped and adjusted color to read the DOT "string." Says DOT AIST 83 GUIDE IY

Then above shows three wire socket w/ 1157, 2057, or 2357 bulb. all are 2 filament bulbs, Dim filament for T, Bright for IS
A is just the reflector. Light can go thru a reflector part but the light bulb/led can't be directly under that part. (OE Fiero Markers, Marked DOT AP2 etc, have just enough "lens" area to be legal w/ the 194 bulb or a simple LED setup.)

 
quote
Originally posted by mr_corean:
I'm not really worried about being stopped for the lights. From the outside they look and operate completely stock. Also I live in las Vegas and it's pretty common place for cars to be running green or purple headlights, let alone red and blue blinkers. Thought that was all illegal too but no one seems to care.

Maybe so for cops at home... Drive in/thru another town or state and be careful.
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