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Battery Relocation cable sizes issue by darbysan
Started on: 07-05-2015 02:46 PM
Replies: 17 (705 views)
Last post by: Adjustso3 on 07-10-2015 08:22 AM
darbysan
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Report this Post07-05-2015 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Doing the Archie Battery relocation. I have the positive cable from my donor Riviera. Turns out to be 1/0 AWG ( 0 gauge). I bought 2 AWG wire for the negative, and was going to run it back to the engine block. Should I buy more 0 AWG wire for the negative? Heard it was important that they both be the same size.

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'87 GT in process, including GA / Seville brakes, Poly Suspension, '95 3800 Series 1 SC ( 225 hp ) T460e.

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Cajun
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Report this Post07-05-2015 03:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CajunClick Here to Email CajunSend a Private Message to CajunEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It would be wise to use the same size cable. I did the very same upgrade some years ago! However, I use 2/0 welding cable.

Good luck.
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seajai
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Report this Post07-05-2015 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Get another Riviera positive cable and swap out the red battery terminal cover for a black one. They pull off easily. I used 2 positive cables from a Buick LeSabre for mine and its worked great for the last 2 years.





[This message has been edited by seajai (edited 07-05-2015).]

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darbysan
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Report this Post07-05-2015 04:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've been looking for another cable, but hard to find here. I got the first one off my donor, and it was a bear to remove ( even in the garage, on the lift). I was trying to also remove the ECM harness at the same time, so maybe that makes it more difficult, but I ended up removing the HVAC unit and dash to get the cables out. I did find one Riviera at the Pick and pull a couple of weeks ago, but I would have to remove a lot of the interior to get to it, and it was 115 outside that day, plus the Pick and Pull's here are all paved with concrete, so it's even hotter! .

Probably just order another length of 1/0 cable in black - won't cost much more and saves me some cussing. If we get a cloudy day, and it drops into the 90's, I might go try the Pick and Pull one more time....
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seajai
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Report this Post07-05-2015 04:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for seajaiSend a Private Message to seajaiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Try the LeSabre or Bonneville. I pulled mine in the middle of winter in the snow, only took about 15-20min apiece.
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Patrick
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Report this Post07-05-2015 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darbysan:

I've been looking for another cable, but hard to find here. I got the first one off my donor, and it was a bear to remove ( even in the garage, on the lift).


I forget exactly which GM cars I took them from, but having them on a lift would not have been any advantage.

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

There are GM vehicles with their batteries under the back seat. These battery cables are perfect. Even have the correct connections for side-post batteries.

The best part... $3.95 apiece at the auto wreckers.

Splurge and buy two. Run the negative cable right up to the engine block.

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darbysan
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Report this Post07-05-2015 05:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote


I forget exactly which GM cars I took them from, but having them on a lift would not have been any advantage.


My donor was T-boned in the passenger door / rear quarter. Had to cut out most of the Qtr Panel just to get the rear seat out. Passenger seat would not move, which made it a little difficult to get a couple of the screws out that held the cable in place beside the seat. Then there was the 4-5 cable ties that were screwed into the footwell behind the ECM/ Air Bag Controllers. On top of that, I'm 250 lbs, and 65, so not real flexible anymore

May give it a try tomorrow. Forecast is only 101. Have to be careful not to touch any bare metal- it can burn you. Maybe the LeSabre's won't fight me as much. And I wish the Pick and Pull priced like that here. If you don't speak Spanish, the price seems to go up. Nothing less than $5-10, plus tax and fees.
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darbysan
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Report this Post07-06-2015 02:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, went to the Pick and Pull this morning. Had cloud cover, so not even 90 yet, although Humidity was way up at 30% Found a Bonneville and pulled the battery cable. SO much easier than the Riviera. However, got home and measured it, and it is 2 gauge vs the Riviera 1/0 gauge, so back to the same issue again of having mismatched cable sizes. I'm thinking of just running what I've got now- Riviera on the Positive and Bonneville on the Neg. ( or I could reverse them... ) Right way would be to find another Riviera cable, or buy some 1/0 cable and make my own. Maybe I'm just lazy?

I value your thoughts.

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'87 GT in process, including GA / Seville brakes, Poly Suspension, '95 3800 Series 1 SC ( 225 hp ) T460e.

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ltlfrari
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Report this Post07-06-2015 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've always used #2 welding cable. Never had any issues over the size.

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darbysan
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Report this Post07-08-2015 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK, went back to the Pick and Pull today and got a cable from a Riviera. I got lucky in that most of the dash area stuff had been removed, as there are two 10mm nuts you have to get to under there. I also picked up another Lesabre cable, so I have two now so someone else can have a matched set. Even picked up the black covers to make one of them the ground. If I had known how much they were going to charge me today, I would have only bought one cable Wish I spoke Spanish, so I could negotiate with them!)

Also for those that might be interested, I bought a Harbor Freight Hydraulic Crimper, but found out that the Die Markings do not even come close to AWG sizes. Returned it. Here's a good thread on it.
Starts 1/2 way down on Page 3. ( This is also a very good tutorial on doing large gauge crimping, if you go back to page 1) . I've got another crimper coming from Ebay, so I'll report on it when it arrives.

http://www.pbase.com/mainec...attery_cables&page=3

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'87 GT in process, including GA / Seville brakes, Poly Suspension, '95 3800 Series 1 SC ( 225 hp ) T460e.

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Patrick
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Report this Post07-08-2015 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darbysan:

I've got another crimper coming from Ebay, so I'll report on it when it arrives.


The only alteration we had to make to the cables when I front mounted my battery was to extend the smaller secondary positive lead that went from the starter to the power junction. And that didn't involve crimping as we were able to solder and shrink wrap the one join.
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darbysan
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Report this Post07-08-2015 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yep, the 2 gauge cables would work fine, and the attached lugs go through the conduit I'm going to use to protect the cables under the car. The Riviera cable end is too large to go through the conduit, so I have to cut them off.
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Blacktree
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Report this Post07-08-2015 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You haven't mentioned it yet, so I'll cover it just in case. The chassis needs a good ground path to the battery, as well as the engine. That's because just about everything else (aside from the engine electronics) is grounded to the chassis. I would suggest the following setup:

-- Long ground cable from engine to battery
-- Short ground cable from engine to chassis (there are several places in the engine bay to attach it)
-- Short ground strap from chassis to battery (there are several places in the spare tire area to attach it)

The redundant ground paths should work fine with 2ga wire.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post07-09-2015 09:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
At a 100' length #2 copper welding cable can carry 200 amps.
At a 100' length #4 copper welding cable can carry 100 amps.

At shorter lengths the current carrying capacity increases. I've used #2 on my recent swaps and #4 welding cable in the past and both work fine, #2 is stronger heavier but I am not sure that we need more. According to my measurements the Fiero starter motor draws near 100 amps when starting.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
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Report this Post07-09-2015 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I relocated my battery to the front compartment I ran the battery ground right to the chassis in the front. I also ran a good ground from the engine to chassis is the rear compartment. I had one power wire that led from the positive to the starter and one smaller gauge wire run from battery to the power distribution block on the passenger side of the engine compartment. The power wire I used I got from the battery section of walmart. I used to pieces and bolted them together to get the correct length, heat shrunk the joint and it worked fine.

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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK

12.3 is faster than a 13.2

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Adjustso3
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Report this Post07-09-2015 12:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What car is the easiest to get them out of ? What has to be pulled apart to get them out ? Just curious what tools to bring to the bone yard and not have to lug around a toolbox. Many thanks in advance.
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darbysan
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Report this Post07-09-2015 12:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darbysanClick Here to Email darbysanSend a Private Message to darbysanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Based on my experience this week, the 00-05 Bonneville or Lesabre are the easiest, followed by the Riviera / Aurora. The main difference I found is that the Riv/Aurora have two 10mm nuts that have to be removed , and they are behind all of the electronics stuffed into the passenger footwell. If you find one that has the ECM etc removed, then it's pretty simple. Not too many Riv's in the lot, so if you want two that match in size, the Bonne /Lesabre might be the best bet. The Riv is 1/0 AWG cable, while the Bonne/LeSabre are 2 AWG. Consensus here is that either will work, but the sizes Pos /Neg should match.

You will need : 15MM socket, 13mm socket, 10mm deep socket, wire nippers, long screwdriver to pry the side mouldings off, and maybe a razor knife. For the RIV, you will also need either a #15 or #20 torx, or a Phillips head screwdriver to get the door moulding free ( found both types- maybe replaced by PO?? The one I parted out had the Torx).

Start at the back, under the rear passenger seat. Battery should be gone. Disconnect cable from Fuse box, and then start pulling the cable free toward the front of the car. Under the door moulding, you will find a plastic cover with a couple of Zip Ties holding the cable down. Clip the zip ties, and move forward. Under the hood, disconnect the cable, and a couple of wire loom "loops" that hold the cable to the inner fender. Might have to move a couple of other cables out of the way, and maybe the washer reservoir. Now go back to the passenger door and pull hard a couple of times. If it comes free, pull it out. If it doesn't, then you have a couple of those nasty 10mm nuts to loosen.

If you want to pull two, and make one the negative cable, go back to the rear and remove the Negative Battery cable. The black end will slide of after you wiggle the little bolt out, and can be swapped out on the second cable.


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'87 GT in process, including GA / Seville brakes, Poly Suspension, '95 3800 Series 1 SC ( 225 hp ) T460e.

[This message has been edited by darbysan (edited 07-11-2015).]

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Adjustso3
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Report this Post07-10-2015 08:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Adjustso3Click Here to Email Adjustso3Send a Private Message to Adjustso3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the how to ! That was awesome and I really appreciate the time you put into that reply. I'm sure many members will find that very helpful.
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