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It's 2015, there should be a better easier way to figure out wheel fitment by zmcdonal
Started on: 06-14-2015 08:17 PM
Replies: 13 (329 views)
Last post by: thesameguy on 06-15-2015 01:25 PM
zmcdonal
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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A little background, i bought an 87 GT with a 3800sc swap last year that was an unfinished project. From day one I knew I'd be in the market for new wheels and tires. The car had a hub conversion done on it and is currently a 5x4.75 pattern.

After reading pretty close to every thread on here that involves wheel size, fitment, or offset, i thought I knew exactly what I was going to need but wanted to find a shop that would measure and make sure.

Well I've run into some issues getting my wheels with the shop I was using. Waited almost a month and the couldn't produce an order. Buying a set of wheels for your car is supposed to be a fun, enjoyable thing. It's a big expense and a difficult decision, but it's also a landmark day for a car enthusiast. I'd like to thank World of Wheels in Michigan City Indiana for totally screwing that up for me.

I've been saving for wheels and tires for my 3800 Fiero since I first bought it and knew I'd have enough money after tax time. I went to world of wheels in the winter after posting on Facebook asking for advice on a good wheel shop in the area and the owner started chatting with me. After explaining that my car has been built with parts from many different cars they said they need to measure to figure out what will fit properly. I was ok with that and told them I'd bring the car over in the spring when the weather cleared.

Jump ahead to May, I take the car over to their shop to talk wheels and remind them that they would need to measure. They claim that they don't have to measure and the wheels should fit just fine, and if not they'll make it right and find me something that I'll be happy with. (that should have been red flag number one) I get a written up estimate which, they messed up the tire and wheel sizes in which we were discussing. I get the typos straightened out and I make my final decision on May 15 and ask again if they are sure they don't want to check measurements before I give them a hefty deposit. That was a Friday, the following Monday was a holiday which may affect shipping but the wheels were estimated to arrive mid week the next week. It was only supposed to be 2 day shipping from New York.

Wednesday/Thursday of the following week arrives and I call to check what's going on, the owners not in and the guy said he'd call me back in 45 minutes. (no call back, red flag number 2) I call before closing and he claims to have just gotten in yeah right, sure, but for some reason has not received tracking info on my wheels yet. Tells me they should be in next week. So I call in the next week and he still has no tracking number or any idea where my wheels are. But I'm going out of town that weekend and they should definitely be in when I get back.

Following Monday I call to find out if my wheels came in, he'll look into it and give me a call back, I recieve a call saying there's a slight issue and we need to discuss how to move forward. Come to find out the issue is with their credit card, apparently their vendor had an out of date credit card info and cancelled the order and my wheels never shipped. I told them on no big deal stuff happens, let's go ahead and reorder them, when would be an outside date for them to arrive, they tell me the end of the week again. I call in on Saturday inquiring about my wheels, they have no info on them, and tell me Monday/Tuesday.

End of my work day Tuesday rolls around and I still have not heard from them, so I give them a call. We have another small problem apparently. They were shipped the wrong sizes. Kind of curious why they didn't call me and let me know the wheels were in but there's a problem, instead I have to call to find out what's going on. I get pretty pissed at this point as we are closing in on a month since I gave them my deposit and walked in their store with the exact sizes I wanted, they didn't have to do anything except place the order because I had done my research.

Wednesday morning I drove to their shop to retrieve my deposit. Surprise surprise they didn't open on time, what kind of shop do you run here? As the owner is counting back my cash he says "oh no wonder we didn't get the right size, our invoice is wrong" , gee so was your estimate dumbass. WTF! My reciept was right because I double checked it before I left their shop and looked it over numerous times to make sure everything was correct. Would you admit that to your customer at this point? You look like an idiot.

Then the owner claims that he's now stuck with those wheels since they were a special order, I don't buy that for a second or why were you so confident that you'd make it right if they didn't fit. AND if it happens to be true that he IS in fact stuck with those wheels wouldn't that give them even more reason to measure in the first place to make sure they'll fit before placing the order?

Now I'm back to square one and since I've had so much time to think, I'm debating if I want to stick with that style wheel or go a different route now and also questioning width and offset again. Very frustrating.

After I got my money back I went over to discount tire because I know they sell the wheel I was interested in. After chatting with the guy at discount tire things got more complicated. My car has had a 5x4.75 hub conversion done on it, I guess to make it easier to do the Corvette brake upgrade, not real sure what the previous owners motivation behind it was. But there is not a whole lot of wheel selection in the 5x4.75 pattern. My car is currently running BMW wheels which are 5x120mm. I tell the sales guy about the hub conversion and what wheels are on the car now and he proceeds to tell me that legally they cannot mount 5x120 wheels on my car if I were to order them. And I'm more than welcome to do it myself but if I buy them I own them. That was kind of my whole motivation for going to a shop was that if they don't fit it's on them. So just to clarify I told the guy that if I just wanted to replace the tires on my car and put the same wheels back on it they would refuse to service it and he said that was correct.

Now I know that 4.75 and 120mm aren't equal but there's no way he would have been able to tell unless I told him. And I don't know how unsafe it is, it seems from what I've read that s10 and blazer guys have been running them forever with no issues. After all the difference is 0.65mm's. So I'm not sure what I should do at this point.

[This message has been edited by zmcdonal (edited 06-14-2015).]

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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zmcdonal

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Member since Oct 2005
Originally I had ordered 18x8.5 with a +35 offset for the front and a 19x9.5 with a +35 offset for the rear. I was planning to run a 225/40 up front and was hoping I could fit a 275/35 on the rear. From everything I've read, that should fit with no issues.

Ok so I just went out and pulled the rear wheel to see what markings were on it. Currently it has BMW 3 series wheels, the rears are 17x8.5 with a +50mm offset but I'm also using a approx 10mm spacer (I don't have a caliper to measure with). And I'm running 10" coilover springs.





I mounted the wheel back up without the spacer and it still bolted up ok and cleared the coilover. (pics of wheel mounted without spacer)





This is how the wheels fit with the spacers. Fitment isn't bad, the tire just looks small in the wheel well, and I don't want to lower it more because it already drags the cradle in my driveway sometimes when my blue one with the nicer stance does not.




Now my biggest question/concern is the bolt pattern since I am running 5x4.75 all the way around. The wheels currently on it are 5x120mm and I don't know if it's safe or smart to buy new wheels that are 5x120mm or not, but there is very limited selection in 5x4.75. I took an old 5x4.75 hub I had laying around and set it inside the wheel and you obviously can't tell by eye that it's not the same. As long as I was running hub centric rings or had the proper center bore I don't see how there could be an issue.

[This message has been edited by zmcdonal (edited 06-14-2015).]

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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So the issue is with the lug nuts seating correctly with the 5x120. They will appear to seat just fine on the first lug that you torque down but the others will be a hair off so the conical seat of the lugnut may not be making contact with the entire bevel of the wheel. Without the entire lugnut seating correctly, you need to make sure to check your torque more frequently than if you used the proper wheel bolt pattern.

Also 4.75 is actually 5x120.65. I THINK you can find wheels with the 120.65mm pattern.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 06-14-2015).]

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Neils88
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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm sure there a number of online places that would give you better service, and replace the rims if there is an issue. You might be on the hook for shipping costs though. I would try to stick with 5x4.75 if you can. I know each stud is only off by 1/3 mm but that could lead to a small misalignment....causing vibration and extra wear (small though it would be).
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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:

Also 4.75 is actually 5x120.65. I THINK you can find wheels with the 120.65mm pattern.



Yeah there isn't much out there, unless I want American Racing or torque thrusts or a couple others, or some corvette takeoffs. I was looking at the TSW Nurburgring's, which they make in a 5x4.75 pattern but only in one size for the new corvette, which is 19x9" wide and 20x10.5" I think not sure about the diameter, I know they're staggered and too wide.
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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTClick Here to Email IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zmcdonal:


Yeah there isn't much out there, unless I want American Racing or torque thrusts or a couple others, or some corvette takeoffs. I was looking at the TSW Nurburgring's, which they make in a 5x4.75 pattern but only in one size for the new corvette, which is 19x9" wide and 20x10.5" I think not sure about the diameter, I know they're staggered and too wide.


If you still have the wheel off the car, set it on a bench under a light and see if you can see even seating marks from the lugnuts or uneven groves. Also here is a webpage that lists cars with the 120.65 pattern:
http://www.wheel-size.com/p.../?PageSpeed=noscript
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Report this Post06-14-2015 08:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IMSA GT:


If you still have the wheel off the car, set it on a bench under a light and see if you can see even seating marks from the lugnuts or uneven groves. Also here is a webpage that lists cars with the 120.65 pattern:
http://www.wheel-size.com/p.../?PageSpeed=noscript


I already put the wheel back on but can pull it off again at some point. I have been very careful every time putting the lugs back on and snugged them as evenly as possible a little bit at a time. Another big issue with my wheel choice is brake clearance, I'm running 13" Corvette brakes up front and my current 17's barely clear. Maybe I could find some Jag take offs, I didn't know they share that pattern.
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Report this Post06-14-2015 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I see a lot of issues here. You have to expect problems when you highly modify something. Id deal ONLY with someone local, not online or over the phone. If they write the order wrong, they eat it, not you the customer. You did keep a copy of the correct order you made right ? If their manufacturer got the numbers wrong, THEY eat them. I never put more than a token payment down (like $50) and pay the balance when they arrive. If I buy online or over the phone, Ill pay the cost IF I know the company by reputation or previous dealings. If you MUST have them special made, DONT go thru a dealer...go straight to the manufacturer and you dont have surprises. Chalk this up as a lesson learned, but hope it all works out for you in the end the way you want it. I always try to order wheels made for that car and stay away from mods that change all the specs and I never have a problem. Its just part of the business of making mods...expect LOTS of problems and hassles along the way. Ive never seen even just an engine swap go smoothly with no problems. Ive had problems even swapping a same motor from another year into a car made for it. Puting another 283 chevy (56) into another chevy with a 283 (58) should be as simple as they come...right. Wrong, the 56 chevy engine mount is in the middle under the damper, while 57 up has them on the sides of the block. To put it in, had to weld up a custom subframe to have something for the center mount to bolt to. That cost me more than the engine did, and added a week to my planned one day install.

Specificly on wheels, I went online and bought a set of OEM alloy wheels for my 04 sebring. They were new car take offs from a 04 Sebring coupe. Mine was a convertible. I drove 4 hours to pick them up and paid $300 for the set. Yep, they were as advertised, perfect condition, OEM factory wheels for a Sebring. I got home and took off the wheels and dropped them at the tire shop. They remounted all my tires on the new rims. That was $100 for mount and balance. Alls good right ? Nope, who knew that the bolt pattern on the coupe and convertible are different. I had to pay to have my tires remounted on the original wheels, and sold the new ones I bought at a swap meet for $100. So I ended up $400 in the whole and still had the original wheels on the car.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 06-14-2015).]

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Report this Post06-15-2015 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'd like to pass along this website.
http://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

Seems to be the best that I have been able to find, and although I haven't ordered wheels and tires yet, I am considering using this website.
Good luck
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Report this Post06-15-2015 02:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
5x120 is the bolt pattern that every BMW except the 3 series has had from the '70s, and every BMW since 1993 has come with. It's also the bolt pattern for Jaguars, a fair number of RWD GM cars, and Lambos. There should be no shortage of wheels to choose from - I think what you may be experiencing is a shortage of *cheap* wheels. HRE, ARE, Breyton, Team Dynamics, BBS, Work, Miro, Forgestar, and TSW all make a full line of wheels for BMWs. Many of these brands will make custom wheels (offset/width) and several make multi-piece wheels so you can assemble whatever geometries you want. Tirerack alone lists 193 17" wheels and 202 18" wheels! There should be zero problem finding wheels!

When it comes to custom applications, a lot of the burden of fitting is going to fall on the owner. Many shops won't touch custom stuff, and finding big wheels in the wrong bolt pattern for a 30 year old car is not research any wheel manufacturer is going to have done. When you add in tire sizes (which these days are remarkably approximate) it's a lot of work. I often start my shopping on Craigslist for used wheels - that way it doesn't hurt so much if it doesn't work, and sometimes you run into a cool seller who will let you test fit, maybe for a couple dollar tip.

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zmcdonal
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Report this Post06-15-2015 02:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for zmcdonalSend a Private Message to zmcdonalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by thesameguy:

5x120 is the bolt pattern that every BMW except the 3 series has had from the '70s, and every BMW since 1993 has come with. It's also the bolt pattern for Jaguars, a fair number of RWD GM cars, and Lambos.


The issue that I'm having is that technically my bolt pattern is 5x4.75 which equals 5x120.65 and there's a whole lot less selection there. Currently the car has 5x120 wheels on it though and I'm not sure if it would be smart to buy new wheels that are 5x120 or not.
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Report this Post06-15-2015 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is indeed hard to get good service anymore. Some shop owners and employees are like 5 year olds.

I would probly just run 5x120s and check the lug torque every once in a while, just make sure the hub is the right diameter. But I wouldnt ever let a shop torque my wheels on then.
I see what you mean the opinions are like picking a favorite oil.
Decent opinions:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/w...75-bolt-pattern.html


Dont be disheartened, you'll eventually end up with wheels you like

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-15-2015).]

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Report this Post06-15-2015 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check these out, look up "Wobble" lugnuts. Not recommending them but, interesting. $140 for 20 though.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 06-15-2015).]

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thesameguy
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Report this Post06-15-2015 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for thesameguyClick Here to Email thesameguySend a Private Message to thesameguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.65mm is less than a hair's width - they should not result in a problem mounting 5x120 wheels on a 5x4.75" pattern. Weirdos run Corvette slicers on their BMWs all the time, and a quick Google suggests people are running BMW wheels on their Corvettes as well. I would not sweat it.

I've used wobble nuts like 2.5 posted on a couple cars, most recently to run 4x108 (Saab) wheels on a 4x110 car (RX7). I originally found them to put wheels on an Alfa with a goofy 5x98 pattern. If you want to talk wheel selection, try finding wheels in a 5x98! Oddly they are not very popular in this country, but a recommended solution in Europe. That's actually how I came upon them - they were recommended to me by a UK Alfa dealer.

I don't think you'll need wobble nuts to make up half a mm, but what I would do is find wheels that otherwise work for you and run several miles on them. Pull off the lug nuts and inspect the seats for chafing or other signs of wear. I'm sure you won't find any, but if you do, get some wobble nuts.
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