I am going to install my eibach lowering springs. I did the rears and I will be putting the fronts in soon. Do I NEED to cut the bump stops? Any pics, or documentation you can link me to ?
Thanks y'all!
Louis
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 06-13-2015).]
When I cut one coil out, it hit the stops so hard it knocked the mirror off the windshield. If you have a welder and grinder shortening the stops is a piece of cake. I used a strip of 1" masking tape for a cutting line once the stop was cut off.
Years ago I cut off two coils from my 84's front springs (which were longer than later years) and eventually discovered that my front suspension was actually riding on the bump stops.
After doing the proper procedure to shorten the metal bump stops (on '84-'87 Fieros), my '84 handled a helluva lot better at autocross with a functional suspension.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-15-2015).]
I don't know for sure, but why take a chance? while you have the springs out you might as well shorten them to be sure. You could install them and see if they work, but if you do start bottoming out you'll have to take it all apart again and shorten them.
I have. Eibach springs on all around my 87 GT for the past 9 years without any mods to the frame, it runs great. But if you hit a pothole Very hard you will feel it in your soul!!! so if you can modify it now, just do it.
I've been running my Eibach's for a few thousand miles now and while they are not riding on the bump stops, any form of decent bump slams the car hard. I'll be doing the bumpstops next chance I get.
Thanks guys! Any link to a thread on how to shorten them?
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
I posted about my experience doing this several years ago HERE with my '84. Make sure to look over both pages (and "click" the links to the other indicated threads).
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-15-2015).]
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
Not sure on the uncompressed length of the Eibach vs a stock spring with two coils removed. To my understanding the Eibachs are a progressive rate type thing too. Do the Eibachs actually require bump stop shortening? I haven't had mine on the track to experience any of the strange deleterious handling effects in your thread but I am going to have to peek my head under the car next time I'm in the garage.
the eibach's originally had two available drops if I remember correctly. 1", 1.5". the front springs 3802-001 have an actual drop of about 1.5" regardless of claims.(I had a set from a parts car) I think the rear was 3802-002. keep in mind theses are the old part numbers...
[This message has been edited by Ontario Fiero (edited 06-15-2015).]
I haven't had mine on the track to experience any of the strange deleterious handling effects in your thread but I am going to have to peek my head under the car next time I'm in the garage.
Just turn the wheels hard one way or the other (to make it easy to look in there) while the car's parked and see for yourself how much space there is between the rubber nub on the bump stop and the pad on the lower control arm where it makes contact. The ratio is about 2:1... in other words, whatever the gap is that you see, you have twice the amount of travel left out at the wheel. In the case of my '84, I had no gap (as the picture ten posts back shows) and therefore had no travel. Yes, I recall the ride was a little firm. The only "give" in my front suspension was the air in the tires and the rubber nub on the bump stop compressing. I didn't realize how bad it was until I shortened the bump stops... and had an actual working suspension again!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-15-2015).]
For what it's worth, shortening the bump stops is easy when you have the springs out. Disassembling the front to pull the springs is the hardest part. Once the springs are out I took a cut off wheel and cut the bump stop tower off in the middle. Then rolled a piece of 1" masking tape around the cut tower and cut out the 1" piece following the tape line. Then just welded that section back on.
After looking at Patrick's thread, I am weary about cutting the bump stops since i can't weld. I thought nothing had to come apart as far as the front suspension goes to get the springs out and swap in the eibachs. I figured I'd use the spring compressor, slide the stock springs out and compress and slide my eibachs in. I've seen threads where people say the front stock springs can be removed without spring compressors by popping hem out with a crowbar. But since autozone lends the compressors for free, why not use them? What has to come apart to swap the front springs? Do i have to remove the ball joint? Or can they just be compressed and pulled out, if I jack the car up by the front crossmember won't it spread the control arms enough to pull the compressed springs out? I wish I had someone local that knew how to cut the bump stops and could weld and help me with that. I may just install the eibachs and see how it is and if needed then remove them and try to cut the stops, the only option for me would be to bring them to a shop and have them welded after I cut them. Any other documentation with the cutting process more picture detailed? Thanks again guys for all this attention, I feel special.
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
You're already onto it as far as installation goes, I popped the lower ball joint and the spring pretty much is just a pop with a crowbar, if you really insist you can use compressors but there isn't much compression needed to get them free. The Eibachs you can pop in by hand, reverse the process, happy days.
Does the ball joint have to be popped off? Once the pickle fork hits it it will tear the boot and then new ball joint needed right? If I use compressors can I get the stock springs out without poppin off the ball joint?
I wish I knew how to weld so I can mod the bump stops...
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
But I can't weld so I don't know if ill be able to do the bump stops.
Can you tell me if I can remove the stock springs without popping the ball joint if I use spring compressors?
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
you can get new ball joint boots from the Fiero Store. You may want to see if you have a friend or relative that has a welder and can weld those back up. Quick and easy IF you can find someone with a welder. About the only way your going to get the old springs out without popping the lower ball joint is cut it, JUST WATCH YOUR HANDS. It will only take a second for that spring to take a finger off.
[This message has been edited by tebailey (edited 06-16-2015).]
I just realized I have boots from the poly suspension kit I bought. I can get a loaner pickle fork at autozone, now I just need to seek out a welder that can make house calls.....
Thanks guys !!
This forum is full of beautiful people !
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 06-16-2015).]
Originally posted by Lou and Blue: I just realized I have boots from the poly suspension kit I bought. I can get a loaner pickle fork at autozone, now I just need to seek out a welder that can make house calls.....
Using that can and will ruin the boot and the joint. Get or make the connect tool.
Polly boots will let grease out and water/dirt into the joint.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
You know I bought two moog tie rod ends for the rear and one had a boot like the oem with the metal ring part at the bottom that secures the bottom of the boot but the other had a boot that just pushes on . The rear ball joints I bought both just had the press on boots. All those were black and rubber, my poly ones are red.
Ogre can you link me to this "connect tool" so I don't harm my front lower ball joints?
And there's absolutely no way that I can get the front stock springs out without popping the ball joint even if I use spring compressors?
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
Originally posted by Patrick: That was a typo by Ogre. He meant "correct" tool.
Yes... Correct... Get Rodney's tool or make one. "They" make Rod End tools (Tie rod and others) to press out the end w/o damaging the boot or joint. Forks are only to remove Dead parts and often doesn't work well for that.
Well, after seeing that rock auto close out sale I went ahead and bought two new front lower ball joints. This way I can just use the pickle fork and it doesn't matter if I tear the boot or not as I will install new front lower ball joints.
Question... The rear lower ball joints came with nuts and bolts to attach them to the lower control arm. The picture on rock auto doesn't show that for the front. Do the front lower ball joints need to be pressed Into the control arm? That may pose an issue for this driveway project of mine. But I guess if I have to remove the lower control arms to press in the ball joints (I do have a press) then I can install my poly bushings in the control arms while I have it apart.
Thanks , all advice is GOLDEN !!!
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
Do the front lower ball joints need to be pressed Into the control arm? That may pose an issue for this driveway project of mine. But I guess if I have to remove the lower control arms to press in the ball joints (I do have a press) then I can install my poly bushings in the control arms while I have it apart.
I will read the thread but that link is a big YES!
Ok thanks !!!!
------------------ ===Always trying to find time to work on cars=== Louis Duet Baldwin, Long Island, NY "My mind spins like helicopter blades." -G. Rossdale ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT 3800sc series 2 swap in progress--IT'S ALIVE !!!!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12 VIN #5835 Stock PRV engine Peugot 604 Intake manifold Exhaust headers Anti-3rd brake light
One way to remove the ball joint it hit the spindle with 2 hammers. After you loosen the ball joint nut place a sledge hammer on one side of the ball joint boss as a backer. Hit the other side of the boss with sledge hammer. We used 2 or 3 pound short handle hammers. This works with tapered joint connections and saves the rubber boots.
------------------ 88 GT 5 Speed Black with gray interior 3800 SCII Swap Complete. Paint Complete Detailing in Progress
IT RUNS!! IT'S QUICK!!
"Real integrity is doing the right thing, knowing that nobody's going to know whether you did it or not."
so if you can modify it now, just do it.
The only "give" in my front suspension was the air in the tires and the rubber nub on the bump stop compressing. 
