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Trying to remove passenger fender by Dylpro
Started on: 06-12-2015 12:43 PM
Replies: 46 (1107 views)
Last post by: Jason88Notchie on 06-30-2015 09:11 AM
Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A few days ago my Fieros headlight would no longer go up on the passenger side. I've been following the instructions per this troubleshooting guide- click
I ruled it wasn't the Delrin cylinder because the headlight would open on occasion but after once I'd put it back down and it would go back up, so I'm assuming it's a faulty wire. I've now moved on to removing the fender (I have an 88 so following that part of the guide)
I began to remove the fender per the instructions of this webpage- Click
However I can't seem to get the fender off after removing all the bolts, however in step three, the bolt that is tucked behind the fender towards the engine block, I don't believe I've removed this one, however I can't figure out where he's talking about, so if anyone has more detailed info itd be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much! I can upload pictures if need be.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-12-2015 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since the fender is a long way from the engine block, i dont have a clue. Not sure that guide has anything to do with Fieros since in the rocker portion there was no mention of rivets, only bolts that dont exsist.

The fender needs to move upward to come off, it kind of wraps over the top of the frame. there is a sneaky screw at the very front top just behind the front fascia that gets missed. I have some fenders off the car right now, if you need a pic of a section id be happy to take one.
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Since the fender is a long way from the engine block, i dont have a clue. Not sure that guide has anything to do with Fieros since in the rocker portion there was no mention of rivets, only bolts that dont exsist.

The fender needs to move upward to come off, it kind of wraps over the top of the frame. there is a sneaky screw at the very front top just behind the front fascia that gets missed. I have some fenders off the car right now, if you need a pic of a section id be happy to take one.


The fender won't budge from this spot
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
I've gotten the front bit out from under the front but that lower but just won't budge.

[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 06-12-2015).]

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-12-2015 01:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That trim piece has to come off, its screwed on under it.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-12-2015 01:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Mike Gonzalez

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Wait, think im wrong, gonna go look

Ya, I was thinking of the rear lower section...

Heres some pics tso you can see if youre missing anything



[This message has been edited by Mike Gonzalez (edited 06-12-2015).]

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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Wait, think im wrong, gonna go look

Ya, I was thinking of the rear lower section...

Heres some pics tso you can see if youre missing anything






Looking at the pictures in almost certain its the first picture where I'm missing something because that's the area it won't move from. Is there anything I need to do to get to that screw or do I need to remove the rocker panels or what?
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-12-2015 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ya, the lower rocker panel covers those screws, and locks into the upper rocker.
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Ya, the lower rocker panel covers those screws, and locks into the upper rocker.


So I do need to remove the rocker panel
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hiwil88formula
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Report this Post06-12-2015 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes rocker panel has to come off, should be 2-3 rivets holding the fender on.
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 02:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hiwil88formula:

Yes rocker panel has to come off, should be 2-3 rivets holding the fender on.


What do I use to remove the screws holding the rocker I can't get it with anything and I'm afraid one appears to be stripped
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 02:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here's the screws I'm unable to get. Seven in total.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-12-2015 03:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Those are rivets, you have to knock the center pin through then pry the rest out.
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-12-2015 03:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Those are rivets, you have to knock the center pin through then pry the rest out.


Okay I plead ignorance, I'm not too knowledgable about handy stuff, but I want to learn and to learn I have to try so last question before I get to work, do I need to drill out the centre pin or can it be done with a hammer because I tried that and didn't seem to work. Will I need to buy new rivets after these are out?
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-12-2015 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Either way, but drilling is easier. I rplaced mine with bolts washers and nyloc nuts.
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Report this Post06-12-2015 11:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't feel bad. There was a poor fellow on here a few years ago, just like you, that wanted to remove a fender for some reason. He was really frustrated and tee'd off and claimed he would have to remove the whole side of the car just to get a fender off. I believe he even challenged the Pontiac engineers, online of course, that came up with the concept. It must of been like putting together 3 jigsaw puzzles from the same box. Don't give up.

Spoon

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Patrick
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Report this Post06-12-2015 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

A few days ago my Fieros headlight would no longer go up on the passenger side.

I've now moved on to removing the fender...


Ummm... I haven't read the guide, but it seems to me you're going through a helluva lot of trouble to fix a headlight. And... if I remember correctly, there's NO wiring under the passenger side front fender that has anything to do with the headlights or their motors. There's wiring (and a module) under the driver's side front fender (on '87-'88 Fieros).

If for whatever reason you need to look under a front fender (either side), I suggest you just remove all the obvious screws along the top, under the side marker light, and inside the fender wells and flex the fender out from the top. I think you should be able to pull it out enough to see what you want to see. I know I've done it this way to gain access to my radio antenna base.

You really don't want to go through all the trouble of removing the rocker panel just to peek under a front fender. The rivets are a nuisance to deal with. I've got my rocker panels off right now as I want to paint them a different color, but man oh man, I wouldn't remove them just to check out non-existent wiring under the passenger side front fender.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 06-13-2015).]

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post06-13-2015 02:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Ummm... I haven't read the guide, but it seems to me you're going through a helluva lot of trouble to fix a headlight. And... if I remember correctly, there's NO wiring under the passenger side front fender that has anything to do with the headlights or their motors. There's wiring (and a module) under the driver's side front fender (on '87-'88 Fieros).

If for whatever reason you need to look under a front fender (either side), I suggest you just remove all the obvious screws along the top, under the side marker light, and inside the fender wells and flex the fender out from the top. I think you should be able to pull it out enough to see what you want to see. I know I've done it this way to gain access to my radio antenna base.

You really don't want to go through all the trouble of removing the rocker panel just to peek under a front fender. The rivets are a nuisance to deal with. I've got my rocker panels off right now as I want to paint them a different color, but man oh man, I wouldn't remove them just to check out non-existent wiring under the passenger side front fender.



I though the same thing actually, but figured he knew what he was looking for, something i dont know about.

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Patrick
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Report this Post06-13-2015 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

I hope the OP isn't out in his garage ripping the rocker panels off his Fiero for no reason.
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Report this Post06-13-2015 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As mentioned the wiring harness comes through on the driver's side and then across the car just forward of the radiator to the passenger's side. The control module is under the forward part of the driver's side fender. However, your problem doesn't sound like a wiring problem.
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Report this Post06-13-2015 04:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Neils88

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quote
Originally posted by Patrick:


I hope the OP isn't out in his garage ripping the rocker panels off his Fiero for no reason.


Here's a picture from when he changed the oil in his other car...



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Report this Post06-13-2015 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

Here's a picture from when he changed the oil in his other car...


The saddest thing is... I don't see any containers of new oil in that shot.
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-13-2015 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm just trying to fix my headlight. The rocker panel isn't off yet as I haven't had the time to work off the rivets so worse comes to worse I'll just need to get the front of my fender tucked back under. In that case, any idea what may be wrong with my headlight?
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Report this Post06-13-2015 07:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

I'm just trying to fix my headlight. The rocker panel isn't off yet as I haven't had the time to work off the rivets so worse comes to worse I'll just need to get the front of my fender tucked back under. In that case, any idea what may be wrong with my headlight?


I just saved you hours of unnecessary work, and that's all you can say?

I dunno, I guess I'm just from a different era.
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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-13-2015 07:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you for that but it's all really besides the point if I still don't know what is wrong with the headlight. The only information I have thus far is from the webpages I've linked and I'm simply following their instructions. If you have some more information that will help me actually find and fix what is wrong I'd greatly appreciate it.

[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 06-13-2015).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post06-13-2015 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

Thank you for that but it's all really besides the point if I still don't know what is wrong with the headlight.


So, it's "all really besides the point" to have saved you hours of unnecessary work? Maybe I should've just not posted and let you tear your Fiero apart for nothing?

I suspect that many people don't understand how a public forum works, especially a forum where members volunteer their time.

It's not just you I'm frustrated with, it's people in general that have an "entitlement" attitude.

I think I'll just go outside and attend to my own Fiero.
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Report this Post06-13-2015 08:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SpoonSend a Private Message to SpoonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Go to ORGES CAVE. The banner is at the top of this page. click on it & hunt down through the electrical section. / Electrical, Lighting, HL Motor.

Spoon

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"Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne." - Kurt Vonnegut

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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-13-2015 08:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Like I said thank you, but I'm just asking for some guidance. There's a thank you in the original post and I'm very appreciative to the those who help me. I'm very sorry sir to not give you a direct thank you. Please don't think I did that intentionally just to offend you, but thank you again for saving my time.
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Report this Post06-13-2015 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

A few days ago my Fieros headlight would no longer go up on the passenger side. I ruled it wasn't the Delrin cylinder because the headlight would open on occasion but after once I'd put it back down and it would go back up, so I'm assuming it's a faulty wire.



You say you ruled out the delrin pins as the problem only based on the fact that it still sometimes works. While those pins do turn to dust, there may still be enough chunks in there to cause the motor to work sporadically. Have you actually taken the headlight assembly off the car, removed the motor and opened it up to look at the pins?

This is the first step. If the drive pins look good then you need to look into the control module that is attached to the driver side inner frame (under fender). They occasionally fart out and are pretty easy to replace. If the module checks out then you need to inspect the wiring.

I am fairly certain your issue is with the drive pins. Take a look at the pins and let us know what they look like.
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Report this Post06-13-2015 09:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by mrfiero:
You say you ruled out the delrin pins as the problem only based on the fact that it still sometimes works. While those pins do turn to dust, there may still be enough chunks in there to cause the motor to work sporadically. Have you actually taken the headlight assembly off the car, removed the motor and opened it up to look at the pins?

This is the first step. If the drive pins look good then you need to look into the control module that is attached to the driver side inner frame (under fender). They occasionally fart out and are pretty easy to replace. If the module checks out then you need to inspect the wiring.

I am fairly certain your issue is with the drive pins. Take a look at the pins and let us know what they look like.


Thank you I'll be on that ASAP! The other thing that made me rule out the Delrin pins was because in the guide it mentions if you turn the knob and the mechanics of the light still work then it's not them, the light still went up when I'd turn the knob manually so that's another reason why I assumed it may not be them.

Also, maybe unrelated to the issue, however, when the car would be off and I'd turn on the light, 9 times out of 10 the light with said problem now would come up about 2/3 of the way. Like I said maybe unrelated and coincidental that it's the same light, but if that helps narrow anything down I figured I'd mention that. Thank you for the help so far everyone.
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Report this Post06-14-2015 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't really know why you would remove the fender to fix the headlight. If you remove the wheel well you cal get to the control module.
But the motors can be changed by removing the hood at most.
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Report this Post06-16-2015 04:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
tomight I'm going to remove the headlight motor and see if I can find out if the pins are no good? Could any refer me to a guide on removing the motor or is this a correct guide to do it from ehow? Click

Thank you everyone the help so far! Much appreciated!
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Report this Post06-16-2015 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You'll need a 10mm socket, 3" extension & ratchet (1/4" drive is a little easier to maneuver). You'll also need a 7mm socket, a T15 torx driver and a very small (& thin) flat blade screwdriver.

Here's how I do it:


-Open the hood

-Loosen, but don't remove, the two 10mm nuts that hold the headlight assembly to the chassis

-Raise the headlight to the "up" position

-Loosen, but don't remove, the two 10mm nuts on the bottom of the headlight assembly. You probably won't be able to see them, but you can feel where they are. You'll have to feed the ratchet down there and if you have big hands you'll hate life, but it is possible

-Once those two nuts are loose then unplug the headlight motor from the main wiring harness (gray plug). Be careful not to pry too much on the tab....it may break off.

-Unplug the harness from the headlight and remove those top two 10mm nuts

-Put the headlight in the "down" position

-Pull straight up on the headlight assembly and fish it out.....I find it a little easier to manually pop open the headlight door on the hood for more clearance (you'll have to hold it open manually since it is spring loaded.

-Once the assembly is out of the car you need to remove the 10mm nut that holds the arm to the motor shaft. Once the nut is off you can pop off the arm with a screwdriver (won't take much pressure). Make sure you note how that arm is orientated so you can install it correctly when you're done

-Remove the three 10mm bolts that attach the motor to the assembly. There are two long bolts and one short one.....the short one should be the middle one, but make a note of where it goes as you remove it

-Now you can remove the motor from the housing

-Remove the three 7mm bolts from the side of the motor....this is where the gear & drive pins reside.

-Carefully pull the cover from the motor. The gasket has probably dried up, or has stuck to one side or the other. Carefully (with that small screwdriver) detach the gasket so it does not rip. You may be able to reuse it.....if it does tear then new ones aren't expensive

-Depending on which side it is (I can never remember) the gear will just pull out and you will immediately know what condition the drive pins are in. On the other motor, the gear needs to be carefully pried out before you can access the drive pins (again, I can't remember which side is the "hard" one and which is the "easy" one.


The drive pins will either be perfectly intact, split or beginning to split, chunky or complete dust. Anything other than perfectly intact should be replaced. Rodney Dickman sells the gears, gaskets and whatever else you need for this job.

If the pins are dust then make sure you clean it all out before installing new ones.


Installation is the reverse (give or take).

I hope this helps.....I have no pictures, but it's pretty straightforward.

Good luck!
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Report this Post06-16-2015 07:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

mrfiero

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I just noticed you are from Illinois. Extra care should be taken when removing the 7mm screws from the motor. They tend to rust in place and can snap off when you try removing them. Take your time and don't rush things.....fixing snapped off screws/bolts will add a lot of time and misery to the job.
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Report this Post06-16-2015 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you very much! I have been doing some reading and have read elsewhere about the rusty screws. I've run out of daylight today but I'll make it my project for tomorrow! In the meantime it appears if I turn the manual knob a little bit to get it started and THEN flip the switch the headlight works perfectly. It'll work for about two flips then will stop again and I'll turn the knob slightly and it'll work again, so that'll get me through for at least tonight! Thank you very much!

[This message has been edited by Dylpro (edited 06-16-2015).]

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ltlfrari
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Report this Post06-16-2015 11:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ltlfrariClick Here to visit ltlfrari's HomePageClick Here to Email ltlfrariSend a Private Message to ltlfrariEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Per the original issue which was the headlight motor. It 'could' be the controller. Swap wiring from left to right motors (might need to make some extension leads) and see if the problem moves to the other side. If it does, it the controller. If not, the motor. Either way, no need to remove the fender.

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Anything I might say is probably worth what you paid for it, so treat it accordingly!

Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

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Dylpro
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Report this Post06-18-2015 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you very much mrfiero for that guide! Made everything very easy and straightforward. Luckily the 7mm were not rusted and in fact looked brand new. The pins were in perfect shape as well, also looked brand new so I'm guessing when the previous owner said he rebuilt the motor he wasn't lying, however he probably didn't replace the gear as it appears to be the culprit.
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Probably waiting until payday to order the gear. Until then she's going to just have to be a daytime driver! Thank you everyone for the help and the info regarding my fruitless efforts in removing the passenger fender! I spent more time doing pointless attempts to remove the fender than I did removing the entire headlight motor. Lessons learned I suppose, thank you Patrick for letting me know about the wiring, or lack thereof. And once again thank you very much to mrfiero for the fantastic guide!
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Gall757
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Report this Post06-18-2015 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got that...Patrick?

4 thank yous in 1 post!
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Patrick
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Report this Post06-18-2015 10:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Got that...Patrick?

4 thank yous in 1 post!


Yeah yeah yeah...

Just to be clear... when I go on these little tangents, it's not necessarily to seek recognition for my own efforts. It's for everyone who volunteers their time here.

Dylpro and I have communicated through PMs. We're good.
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mrfiero
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Report this Post06-18-2015 11:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfieroClick Here to Email mrfieroSend a Private Message to mrfieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow! I don't think I've ever seen a gear break like that....weird. I'm glad I could help you out and I'm glad it's ultimately something easy to fix (versus chasing down an electrical gremlin).
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sricka01
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Report this Post06-20-2015 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sricka01Send a Private Message to sricka01Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This thread gave me Forrest Whitaker eye.
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