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88 Suspension Issue / clearance on one side by Racer_JT
Started on: 06-09-2015 06:50 PM
Replies: 41 (526 views)
Last post by: cyrus88 on 06-14-2015 09:43 PM
Racer_JT
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Report this Post06-09-2015 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
when I bought the car there didnt seem to be any issues with the car. It had the corvette rotors already install and drove as should.

I had RD lowering ball joints installed on the car along with all new poly bushings and that is when things started acting weird. Started getting pops in the drivers side when stopping and or turning and so on..... Turns out the rotor upgrade hat was hitting the lower control arm. so switch back to stock brake until i could figure out the problem. in mean time the ball joints started loosing up even with weld. So I switched back to normal ball joints and cut the stock springs 1 1/2 coils. Now for the really weird part. The drivers side is slammed , the passenger side sits 1 1/2 inch higher. Right where I want it. So in wanting to figure out why. Thinking may one weak spring. I pulled apart and switched the springs the other side. Yes I moved the car each time to settle stuff. Well after switching springs to other side it still sits the same way. WEIRD EH... hang on. So i went to put back on ground after with out sway bar or shocks attached to eliminate those as the problem. and found that the drivers side brake caliper is hitting the little strike plate on the upper spring mount. and it seems the wheel is turning further in than the other side as well. See PIX............ PLEASE HELP

Why would it be doing this????


Drivers Side









Passenger Side



[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-09-2015).]

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Report this Post06-10-2015 02:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Left/d side LCA polly looks to have problems.

Just look at LCA pictures... The bolts must be centered in the polly. Left side isn't.
If very new then likely outer shell is bad.
Polly can wear out without making noise. Lack of lube can wear out fast.

Looks like Left side hit something too. Lowered cars love to hit speed bumps etc. The LCA could be bad.

Seems to have radiator/hose problems too. Green drip is not good.

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Report this Post06-10-2015 05:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes I noticed the coolant issue but at moment can't drive car until fix this issue. GOOD EYE

Can you point out on the pix(edit /mark) what you see. Got the green drop already :-)

Are you saying the lower control arm itself is the issue. As in get a new arm. The movement and popping sound started when the new poly was installed and lowering ball joints. Is it possible that the shop did something when installing? The car became undriveable just after the install. I mean that day. Initially the fact that the large rotor was impacting the LCA mask the problem. Once I took those off. Then I started getting shifting in something. I took back to them twice and they said the someone else left the ball joints loose. No one touched the car but them. I assumed the lowering ball joints was the culprit. The car began changing lanes when it felt like it. Touch the brakes and the steering wheel would shift 5 inches. accelerate and it would center again. Undriveable! And that and the fact i wanted the larger brakes back is why I reinstalled new lower ball joints and cut springs.

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-10-2015).]

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Report this Post06-10-2015 07:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Perhaps there is an extra spring rubber in the upper perch on the passenger side.
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Report this Post06-10-2015 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post






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Report this Post06-10-2015 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah no spring perch issue. It seems everything is good on the passenger side. The issue is the drivers side. Why would the LCA bushing area make the car set so low? I understood it could cause misalignment with the brake caliper if it's sitting crooked.

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Report this Post06-10-2015 08:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LCA bushings and control arms look fine.
Are both lower ball joints fully inserted into the knuckle?
In your first set of pics its obvious that the D/S LCA is at a different angle than the P/S LCA. Your D/S spring is either weak, short or inserted into the upper and lower perches further than the P/S.
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Report this Post06-10-2015 08:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not totally familiar with 88's, i have an 87 gt, but just throwing out the ideas of bumpstops for the ride height issues. Maybe your on one on the pass side and the drivers is missing? I know you swapped springs with no luck, but check the pockets on the arms to make sure they are in there. Also 88 are problematic with uca bolting to the crossmember maybe causing popping and lane changes, also fieros are super sensitive to alignment. I am pretty damn good at getting cars straight after all these years underneath them, but it took 3 times to get it where i wanted it, with the correct specs.
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Report this Post06-10-2015 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
in the first set of pix the car is sitting at the two different heights. So there are two issues going on. The height (1) and the interference (2). The height I believe is a result of what ever is causing the interference. The springs them selves are not the issue as I have switched sides to check if one was weak. the springs are stock with 1 1/2 coil cut out. That should not be enough to drop that side so low. The drop on the passenger side seems correct and has no interference with the brake caliper.

The UCA would not effect height as the spring perch is the piece under it. With the car jacked up the fender to top stud is with in 1/8 of other side.

Nothing appears out of place but yet it is doing this. I wondering if I should just replace the LCA and see if that changes things. I really dont have the funds right now to just throw parts at it until finding the issue.

what points are adjusted on an alignment? Could there be something in the alignment of the UCA or LCA that would cause the interference?

Side note what is the correct length of the sway bar end links?

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-10-2015).]

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Report this Post06-10-2015 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lets zero in on the height of the drivers side, which when fixed will correct the interference issues with the brakes. I only mentioned the popping sound and lane shifts as part lf another issue which maybe caused by incorrect alignment/incorrect bolt torque on the uca. Did the shop do upper bushings, did they align it after the initial work?
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Report this Post06-10-2015 10:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-10-2015).]

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Report this Post06-10-2015 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Racer_JT

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Yes they did. Thank you.

They did all bushings and lowering ball joints. I then went back to normal ball joints myself

But when they aligned it the brake rotor was impacting the LCA. So that should have changed alignment or something
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Report this Post06-10-2015 11:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lets zero in on the height of the drivers side, which when fixed will correct the interference issues with the brakes. I only mentioned the popping sound and lane shifts as part lf another issue which maybe caused by incorrect alignment/incorrect bolt torque on the uca. Did the shop do upper bushings, did they align it after the initial work?
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Report this Post06-10-2015 11:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes they did. Thank you.

They did all bushings and lowering ball joints. I then went back to normal ball joints myself

But when they aligned it the brake rotor was impacting the LCA. So that should have changed alignment or something

Also when the car is on jacks the with both sides at same height there is still interference with no load. and trying to go to full turn the caliper heads the UCA. A.ll the first pix are with car on stands
Therefor this is why I thought the issue of height would be second???? Not to deter you from helping. PLEASE all help is greatly appreciated.
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Report this Post06-11-2015 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry, second pic's look Ok. Hard to tell looking at pictures. They often "lie" because how their taken, like a bit different angle can cause a part(s) to look wrong but really ok or other way around.

First I look at both LCA (Bottom pic in both sets) and left side bolt looks off center.
Left side LCA is up more at the BJ.
If not bent... and bushing outer shell is good... then could be spring or cross-member problems.

If you or anyone cut down the spring, use short aftermarket springs, then can/will cause you to hit the bumper or slam the shock causing bent/broken parts etc. Slammed shocks can look ok on outside but big problems inside.
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Report this Post06-11-2015 01:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
These pix are all with no shock or sway bar attached. I wanted to eliminate them as a possible culprit. So I never put the shocks back on after switching springs. Also didn't reinstall end links.
And bump stops on both sides cut in half

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-11-2015).]

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Report this Post06-11-2015 08:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
so this morning I went out to take some more pix and see what else I see per our replies
this is what I found

It does look to me like the UCA is the shifting issue under breaking and take off.




i wonder if this could be causing the interference.
this pic is with car on stand. no load. full extension
you will notice the caliper bolt is hitting the strike plate



this is with car at full compression
you will notice the caliper itself is hitting the UCA



both ball joints look fully seated

passenger


driver



this are the passenger side pix showing the UCA bolts and the full extension and full compression clearance of caliper



[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-11-2015).]

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Report this Post06-11-2015 09:13 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK so what I found is the UCA was in fact loose and moving. This was causing the interference. as the UCA point of UBJ was pushed forward by the was causing the caliper to impact. FIXED, awaiting a GOOD shop to do alignment

Still have the height issue though??????

This evening I will pull the springs again and just verify SEAT and nothing interacting with them above
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Report this Post06-11-2015 10:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Be sure the bottom of the spring is properly indexed to the LCA spring pocket.
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Report this Post06-11-2015 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is. I made sure when installing. But will be pulling back apart this evening to check the top
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Report this Post06-11-2015 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I installed the offset caliper adapters for my corvette brake kit, I found that the calipers would not clear with the wheel turned completely to one side or the other. I made a set of dogbone adapters for the front calipers and that solved the problem.

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Report this Post06-11-2015 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Show me pix.

I didn't have an issue until I let someone else install the bushings and do alignment
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Report this Post06-11-2015 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok so i just switched springs again from sides and flipped them over so that the more spaced coils are on bottom. made sure nothing was in the perchs. made sure the bottom point is seated correctly. STILL NO CHANGE. Still drivers side 1 1/2 inches lower than passenger. checked that both ball joints are same height. they are less than 1/8 different. Are all LCA for 88 the same?? SE vs. formula vs GT?

Drivers side 23 5/8
Passenger 25 1/8


WHY?????

Is there any measurements or someway of telling if the LCA is bent and could be causing this?

How can this be????

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-11-2015).]

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Report this Post06-11-2015 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Glad you got one solution, now ride height is the next. Its time to start measuring distances to look for bent or damaged parts. Ive spent hours staring at cars that have hit things and have bent something, its tough to tell whats not straight without a new or good parts by it. A fancy alignment machine can show a lot of stuff included angle, sai, caster swings, scrub, etc. But a measuring tape is just is good for stuff like this. Springs are not the problem, we know that. Now its down to measuring from the upper spring perch to a point on the chassis to eliminate a bad crossmember, whats the lenght of the springs, are your lca's straight, are those two different balljoints? (Two different boots) why does the one look like the taper goes waaaaay inside the knuckle vs the other one?
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Report this Post06-11-2015 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They were purchased at same time from AutoZone but are not identical. But I did measure from bottom of spindle to top of LCA. They are very close to identical in height. Maybe 1/16 - 1/8 off. Springs are identical in length. I will measure next time out. I cut 1 1/2 coil off.

Where would you measure to check cross member?
Also to check LCA's.

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-11-2015).]

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Report this Post06-11-2015 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My primary concern is the difference between the balljoints, one looks like the taper (stud with threads) isnt right or both arent right. The boot on the pass side seems very straight and not round like it isnt inserted fully into the knuckle, the driver looks lime the taper is smaller allowing it to go far into the knuckle. Ive been around a while and watched guys kill balljoints with impacts, what happens is they open up or wallow out the hole in the steering knuckle, at which point the knuckle has to be replaced. Balljoint studs are HARD compared to the steering knuckles they go in, im worried that the hole has been compromised, and the balljoints arent correct. This all started after new rd balljoints were replaced and poly installed. Its even possible the lca is bent if some r-tard used a press the wrong way and bent them.
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Report this Post06-11-2015 08:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The lowering one's were put in by the shop. I removed those and installed these myself.

After I tightened then down.... By hand. They are where they are now. About 1/16 different between the LCA and the bottom of spindle.
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Report this Post06-11-2015 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My primary concern is the difference between the balljoints, one looks like the taper (stud with threads) isnt right or both arent right. The boot on the pass side seems very straight and not round like it isnt inserted fully into the knuckle, the driver looks lime the taper is smaller allowing it to go far into the knuckle. Ive been around a while and watched guys kill balljoints with impacts, what happens is they open up or wallow out the hole in the steering knuckle, at which point the knuckle has to be replaced. Balljoint studs are HARD compared to the steering knuckles they go in, im worried that the hole has been compromised, and the balljoints arent correct. This all started after new rd balljoints were replaced and poly installed. Its even possible the lca is bent if some r-tard used a press the wrong way and bent them.
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Report this Post06-11-2015 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

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Report this Post06-11-2015 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The lowering one's were put in by the shop. I removed those and installed these myself.

After I tightened then down.... By hand. They are where they are now. About 1/16 different between the LCA and the bottom of spindle.

Where would I take measurements from to check the cross member?
How do I check for bent LCA? I truly believe at this point that is where going to find problem. Next is which one is the problem one? L/R?
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Report this Post06-12-2015 12:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Still looking thru my 11 year thread for pics. They might be on the corvette brake thread too. Will try to find them.
Something else I'm wondering, are you sure the rear of the car is still correct? If something is off there it could affect how the front looks.

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Report this Post06-12-2015 12:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The rear is coil over and not set exact yet but only 1/2 off
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Report this Post06-12-2015 08:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for cptsnoopyClick Here to Email cptsnoopySend a Private Message to cptsnoopyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
take a quick look at this thread

If your front brackets are like the ones in the drawing on the first post, they do not work as they interfere with the uca and usp.

Look at the the dogbone brackets below. they do not interfere.

there is lots of good info in that thread alone. You just think they were ok, they were not and now that your front is lowered it puts the interference directly in play instead of at the extreme.

Charlie
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Report this Post06-12-2015 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Racer_JT:

and it seems the wheel is turning further in than the other side as well.


Fix that and your problem should probably go away.

------------------
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Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Report this Post06-12-2015 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There is no interfere any more. It turned out to be UCA was loose and crooked causing upper point to pull it over and cause that problem. Alignment fixed. That fixed it.


Problem of 1 1/2 height difference is still there.

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Report this Post06-12-2015 11:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Shop Should Not Align the car w/ uneven ride height. That can/will F the alignment when you find the problem.
Toe mostly. May have a crooked steering wheel because Toe is off on one side.
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Report this Post06-12-2015 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like they put in only one of the drop ball joints. Your lower ball joints do not match. Ones looks like mine. The other is not mine and looks shorther. They should both look 100% the same. That would explain why one side is lower and one side is higher.

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Rodney Dickman

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All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
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Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Racer_JT
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Report this Post06-12-2015 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They are both the same height. I removed yours and reinstalled stock style because of the larger brake rotor hitting the LCA
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Racer_JT
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Report this Post06-12-2015 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Racer_JTClick Here to Email Racer_JTSend a Private Message to Racer_JTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i measured from LCA to perch. and I am seeing that 1 1/2 difference at the point of the spring. Which I would come back to and say has to be spring. but I know is not spring as I have switched and flipped and everything stays the same





in the morning I am going to pull the springs out once again and investigate if the passenger side is inserting into the perch the same as drivers. I know there is nothing in the way but maybe the spring is seating on the lip of perch or something. I pretty sure it is not but what the hey!

[This message has been edited by Racer_JT (edited 06-12-2015).]

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olejoedad
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Report this Post06-12-2015 09:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
They can be a pain to get to seat in the upper pocket - Sylglide helps.
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