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Any ideas for these crazy wheel locks? by Slammed
Started on: 05-18-2015 07:49 PM
Replies: 46 (925 views)
Last post by: David Hambleton on 05-25-2015 09:50 AM
Slammed
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Report this Post05-18-2015 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Aside from me machining a new key?

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Report this Post05-18-2015 08:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That's exactly what I would do, have a key made.
Take some clay or modeling putty and push it around the luglock.

Then once it dries take it to a good CNC company or aluminum shop and have them make you a socket key for it.
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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post05-18-2015 08:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Search the entire car for the key, if it still has factory locks, they must have had the key. Go by the big wheel and tire shops and see if they have one. Go by GM dealerships and see if they still have any. If that all fails, have one made or hammer a 12 point socket over it and hope its not too tight.
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post05-18-2015 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How about welding on a lug nut?
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Slammed
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Report this Post05-18-2015 09:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mike Gonzalez:

Search the entire car for the key, if it still has factory locks, they must have had the key. Go by the big wheel and tire shops and see if they have one. Go by GM dealerships and see if they still have any. If that all fails, have one made or hammer a 12 point socket over it and hope its not too tight.


The picture not showing up?

I'm a machinist so I can make a new key but really don't want to have to. The cutaway is so shallow and they are really on there. I have a feeling I will strip it. I've never seen a lock like this one before

[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 05-18-2015).]

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theogre
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Report this Post05-18-2015 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Definitely not OE lock.
OE locks "Master Key" could be found at many GM dealers.
See my Cave, Tires

I don't think it's a McGard lock either. They make best one on the aftermarket.

Pull out spare tire and look there. Maybe key is hidden or fall down the well.
If you can't find the key then remove them however method and junk them.

If they run that w/o plastic covers then very likely you have rust problems too. I would spray the lock w/ PB blaster etc several times over a few days before trying to remove the lock.

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Report this Post05-18-2015 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott2scottClick Here to Email Scott2scottSend a Private Message to Scott2scottEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the same problem when i got my car. I tried everywhere trying to find a key . I ended up just welding a nut on top and got the locks off . I hate wheel locks.
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Gall757
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Report this Post05-18-2015 09:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Whatever happens, you should start spraying PB blaster right away.....
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FieroG97J
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Report this Post05-18-2015 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FieroG97JClick Here to Email FieroG97JSend a Private Message to FieroG97JEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is MOST DEFINITELY and POSITIVELY a McGard locking lug nut. Factory original type. The last address I have for them is 3875 California Road, Orchard Park, NY. Send the pic you have here and I bet they can send you a NOS wrench for it.
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post05-18-2015 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks just like the original on my 1984 SE. They might not send a wrench though; kind of defeats the security purpose... They will if you have the registration card. http://shop.mcgard.com/

[This message has been edited by David Hambleton (edited 05-18-2015).]

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Mike Gonzalez
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Report this Post05-18-2015 10:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mike GonzalezClick Here to Email Mike GonzalezSend a Private Message to Mike GonzalezEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That is the same factory locks ive had on two of mine, picture shows up fine
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Report this Post05-18-2015 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As mentioned earlier, weld on a lug nut...or a big bolt. The heat from the welder will also help to break any rust holding it on tightly.
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Slammed
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Report this Post05-18-2015 11:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Look at how recessed the lock is, there is no way I'd get the stinger in there and make a solid weld. If it was an open hole on a flush faced wheel, maybe.
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Neils88
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Report this Post05-19-2015 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:

Look at how recessed the lock is, there is no way I'd get the stinger in there and make a solid weld. If it was an open hole on a flush faced wheel, maybe.


I've welded in much more confined spaces than that. I don't see that as being too tough to weld. If you use a large nut, then you would be welding on the inside of the nut. This would make it simple and no issue of catching the wheel.
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Reallybig
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Report this Post05-19-2015 12:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ReallybigSend a Private Message to ReallybigEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can buy a "stripped nut removal socket" and take that locking nut off easy. The socket has a tapered reverse thread inside that bites into the nut as it is turned counter clockwise. There are different sizes to remove many different sized nuts. One socket will remove several different sized nuts, both metric and standard. I've used them on wheel locking nuts in the wrecking yard many times with just a breaker bar, but work best with an impact. They don't bite into chrome lugs well but a thin strip of leather from a torn seat at the yard wrapped around the chrome lug was all it needed to grab hold and twist it off. I bought mine at "princess auto" here in Canada.
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viperine
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Report this Post05-19-2015 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for viperineClick Here to Email viperineSend a Private Message to viperineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks to me, under quick glances, this is a "blue" coded key you need from mcgard. There is a key on eBay for it right now, $30 or best offer. Listed for camaro, firebird, vettes. I apologize if the following link does not work. I did this quickly so do more research if you're really interested, before buying.
http://pages.ebay.com/motor...271512376845&alt=web
Pattern appears identical to me. You be the judge.
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Patrick
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Report this Post05-19-2015 01:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by viperine:

" BLUE "<>SECURITY LUG NUT LOCK KEY<->CORVETTE-CAMARO-FIREBIRD <>WHEEL LUG LOCKS

Pattern appears identical to me. You be the judge.


If both the inner and outer ridge of the "key" needs to fit, IMO it's not a match.

.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 05-19-2015).]

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viperine
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Report this Post05-19-2015 02:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for viperineClick Here to Email viperineSend a Private Message to viperineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great job on image matching, patrick, I'm jealous! I see a good reason to introduce Macguyver to Dremels in this particular instance. "Where there's a will, there's a way!".
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Slammed
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Report this Post05-19-2015 02:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm going to make a key tomorrow. O well
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Report this Post05-19-2015 08:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hmm, doesn't look like the OEM wheel lock that came with my '84. Maybe there were different ones depending on the dealer?
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Report this Post05-19-2015 11:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FieroG97J:
It is MOST DEFINITELY and POSITIVELY a McGard locking lug nut. Factory original type. The last address I have for them is 3875 California Road, Orchard Park, NY. Send the pic you have here and I bet they can send you a NOS wrench for it.

I dug thru 22P... 84-86 did not have locks in the 22P... So may or not be a factory option. maybe lock installed by Dealers.

GM Factory installed Locks is PB4 (Lock Control, Wheel) on RPO label on the car.
Many Factor locks are (maybe were before GM went bankrupt) made by AMCOR per GM TSB and other docs. (I don't have TSB # right now.) Fiero and others are Amcor PN 057 (22P is 999057. Original 999057 kit came w/ 4 locks, 4 black covers and 1 key. Newer number(s)/kit(s) don't have covers. Other new numbers might not fit Fiero plastic cover.)
I have Amcor locks for 87 w/ RPO PB4 code

 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:
Hmm, doesn't look like the OEM wheel lock that came with my '84. Maybe there were different ones depending on the dealer?

If Key and Lock are shown at Amcor site and this...

The key is "tube" w/ "bumps" to fit the notches on the lock.

If not could be McGardw/ different key or another aftermarket lock.

Dealer Installed... Very possible. Dealer often installs aftermarket items or Dealer installed GM Parts to make an option. Cars with Dealer install parts won't have PB4 option code.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 11:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:





That is what I had.

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Report this Post05-19-2015 11:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Would another option be remove the other 4 nuts, then break and replace the stud?
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theogre
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Report this Post05-19-2015 11:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:
Would another option be remove the other 4 nuts, then break and replace the stud?

Not a good plan... You can break/bend the "axle" flange or the wheel before the stud breaks.
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Chelo Fiero
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Report this Post05-19-2015 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Chelo FieroClick Here to visit Chelo Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Chelo FieroSend a Private Message to Chelo FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Definitely. Not stock wheel locks. I used to own a few original ones and the teeth are on the outher side not on the inside of the nut.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 12:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ogre, the Amcor locks were used on Fiero's starting in 86. 84 and 85 used the McGuard style locking lug nuts. The Amcor locks had the same outer diameter and exterior thread as the non-locking nuts, so there was only one size black plastic cap used on all lugs. The 84-85s used the McGuard style which also had and external thread for a plastic cap, but the McGuard lugs were larger diameter so those cars had two different sizes of the plastic caps. If you were to rotate your tires on an 84 or 85 with the factory locking lugs you would have sixteen plastic caps of one size, and four that were shorter in height, and larger in diameter.
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quote
Originally posted by lateFormula:

Ogre, the Amcor locks were used on Fiero's starting in 86. 84 and 85 used the McGuard style locking lug nuts. The Amcor locks had the same outer diameter and exterior thread as the non-locking nuts, so there was only one size black plastic cap used on all lugs. The 84-85s used the McGuard style which also had and external thread for a plastic cap, but the McGuard lugs were larger diameter so those cars had two different sizes of the plastic caps. If you were to rotate your tires on an 84 or 85 with the factory locking lugs you would have sixteen plastic caps of one size, and four that were shorter in height, and larger in diameter.


Well, that make sense, mines were 86-87. And on the front compartment they have a sticker with the GM part# for the key.
Sorry no pictures... But it was an aluminum sticker on the fender well.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 02:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for viperineClick Here to Email viperineSend a Private Message to viperineEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Has anyone tried having a national brand tire and battery place to resolve this? I can imagine lost keys are so common that bigger businesses would have to have a contingency plan for cars dropped off for wheel/tire service. Imagine the money lost on cars they would otherwise refuse to service only after they've already put the car on a rack. I'd be tempted to check into a place like NTB.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 05:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got them off. If anyone comes across these locks, you can borrow the key I made
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Report this Post05-19-2015 05:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:

I got them off. If anyone comes across these locks, you can borrow the key I made


Good job. Now that you have the right tool you can keep using these locks
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Report this Post05-19-2015 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:

I got them off. If anyone comes across these locks, you can borrow the key I made.


The thing is though, there are probably several variations of those locks. Your key will fit just one.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:

I got them off. If anyone comes across these locks, you can borrow the key I made


Did you use an impact gun? The first time I took the wheels off my '84 SE the lug nut cavity on one wheel wasn't big enough to allow the sleeve to thread on. Without the sleeve holding the key onto the nut, the key kept slipping off. I couldn't put enough pressure on the socket, so I ground the OD of the sleeve to be able thread it on. It was too thin and broke later, so the key in the pic is a replacement from McGard.

Here's the option list from my bill of sale in Sep '83 showing the PB4 lock package, and a pic of the lock key showing the sleeve.


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Report this Post05-19-2015 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:



Air Tax?

Do you have to pay that if you promise to hold your breath?
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Report this Post05-20-2015 03:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KillerFroggClick Here to Email KillerFroggSend a Private Message to KillerFroggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by David Hambleton:


Did you use an impact gun? The first time I took the wheels off my '84 SE the lug nut cavity on one wheel wasn't big enough to allow the sleeve to thread on. Without the sleeve holding the key onto the nut, the key kept slipping off. I couldn't put enough pressure on the socket, so I ground the OD of the sleeve to be able thread it on. It was too thin and broke later, so the key in the pic is a replacement from McGard.

Here's the option list from my bill of sale in Sep '83 showing the PB4 lock package, and a pic of the lock key showing the sleeve.




My car (purchased Jan/84) had the same key, and thank the socket gods none of the locking nuts. Promptly tossed the lock nut socket.
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I had a broken locking wheel nut on a car I bought a few years ago, it was recessed and there was nothing to grip. I bought a Long 3/8 Cobalt drill bit and drilled straight all the way through the actual lug, I had an extra hub to replace afterwards but I saved the wheel with only a few minor blemishes.
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Report this Post05-22-2015 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
anytime I have had locks on my wheels I have gotten a sticker that you can put under the hood or anyplace you like for that matter that has the key number or whatever its called for that set of locks. Check under both the truck and hood for that as well as anywhere else you think someone would put that label.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

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Report this Post05-24-2015 09:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1fast2m4Send a Private Message to 1fast2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Snapon makes a universal wheel lock removal tool that is basically a cone shaped socket that you beat on over the outside and then remove the lock. I have also used a cheap 12pt socket thats a tad to small. using a impact gun is critical and not a beaker bar.

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1986 SE 3800SC/4t65eHD (12.871@104.96)
HX-40, FrozenBoost I/C, 80lb injectors & E85 Coming soon.....

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Report this Post05-24-2015 09:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 1fast2m4:

Snapon makes a universal wheel lock removal tool that is basically a cone shaped socket that you beat on over the outside and then remove the lock. I have also used a cheap 12pt socket thats a tad to small. using a impact gun is critical and not a beaker bar.



That's how a tire store took mine off of a car I had decades ago, most people never put those locks on with an impact gun so they are usually just hand tight and not really all that hard to do, once you get a good grip on the locking lug nut.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-24-2015).]

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Report this Post05-24-2015 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 1fast2m4Send a Private Message to 1fast2m4Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 84fiero123:


That's how a tire store took mine off of a car I had decades ago, most people never put those locks on with an impact gun so they are usually just hand tight and not really all that hard to do, once you get a good grip on the locking lug nut.

Steve



If you do use a wrench hit it with a hammer. you don't need an impact gun because it will be tight but with a quick and deliberate hit your less likely to twist your tool of choice off the lock.

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