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rebuild or not to by newfiejeff
Started on: 05-14-2015 10:57 AM
Replies: 26 (401 views)
Last post by: newfiejeff on 05-26-2015 07:25 PM
newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-14-2015 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
1986 2M4
Hi, I am pretty sure that I have one cylinder on my old duke burning oil or the compression is off on that one anyway and the car is burning some oil.

Should I do a rebuild or leave it alone. If I do a rebuild how much of it should I do - rings, pistons, crank, etc.

Open to all ideas, but I would like to keep the car stock.
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Report this Post05-14-2015 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check the compression and see how things are.
How much oil are you adding and how often, what weight of oil, also how much is leaking?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-14-2015 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
aprox 140 to 150 across except one that is a little lower and comes up with oil added.
10w30
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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post05-14-2015 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Most likely Valve seals. hard to tell without more info. whenever I " Open up" an old engine, I just do it all, not that much more and you know what you have in the end. ( especially on a 2.5, it's so easy)
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-14-2015 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I replaced the valve seals already, seemed to help with the blue sometimes on start up.

Mostly get smoke after I accelerate after coasting down a hill or sometimes idling over for a few minutes.
The amount of oil I go through is hard to tell but I think somewheres about a quart on 200 miles or so.
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Neils88
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Report this Post05-14-2015 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newfiejeff:

aprox 140 to 150 across except one that is a little lower and comes up with oil added.
10w30


Does sound like a worn ring. When you open it up you can see if there is any scoring on the cylinder walls. The decision to rebuild or replace depends how easy it is to find a replacement 2.5 in your area. If it's tough to find or pricey in NFLD, then you may want to rebuild. Cylinder / head condition will determine how much work / cost a rebuild will be.
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-14-2015 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No 2.5's in this neck of the woods.
There a while back I could have gotten a car with a 2.8 for about a $1000 with the cradle gone, but I would like to keep her stock.

I will have to check at the machine shops around to see what they will charge.
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Report this Post05-14-2015 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newfiejeff:
The amount of oil I go through is hard to tell but I think somewheres about a quart on 200 miles or so.


Thats a ton if oil, there are no leaks?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-14-2015 02:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well I checked around at the 2 machine shops we have here, it looks like without many parts only or any. Grinding, polishing, checking, etc, it's probably going to run me about $1000+.
So I figure with all the parts and machine work it will cost about $1500......
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-14-2015 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

newfiejeff

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Member since Aug 2013
No leaks...just imagine!!!!

It seems like if I drive it hard it goes through more and just around locally it's not bad.
Since I got the car finally working enough to drive each day I am going to keep an eye on the oil.

I think though the last time I checked it was around 400-500klm's to about a quart.
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Report this Post05-15-2015 08:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could put a wanted ad for a good duke in the "mall" section of this forum. Could save you alot of cash.
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Report this Post05-15-2015 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for GandalfSend a Private Message to GandalfEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newfiejeff:

Since I got the car finally working enough to drive each day I am going to keep an eye on the oil.



Did the car sit for a time? If so, it's POSSIBLE (though unlikely) that a stuck ring could be increasing oil consumption, might be worth giving an oil flush a go and pouring some Redex (or similar) into the cylinder and leaving overnight. If you're already considering having the lump rebuilt / replaced I'd say it's worth a go. I did this in an old 1300 Ford crossflow engine many years ago that had sat for a while and was run for about 40k between oil changes and it did improve the oil consumption quite considerably.
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Report this Post05-15-2015 10:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KillerFroggClick Here to Email KillerFroggSend a Private Message to KillerFroggEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
An easy and cheap check, but take a look at your air filter and PCV valve. If one or worse both are dirty and especially the PCV plugged, can lead to increased oil consumption.
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Report this Post05-16-2015 03:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newfiejeff:

aprox 140 to 150 across except one that is a little lower and comes up with oil added.
10w30


As long as the compression stays under 20% variance at all cylinders, the motor should be mechanically fine. Whats the reading on the once cylinder that was lower?
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Report this Post05-16-2015 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:
As long as the compression stays under 20% variance at all cylinders, the motor should be mechanically fine. Whats the reading on the once cylinder that was lower?

Yup... 10 psi diff is good most times. Most books allow 15-20PSI diff from high to low.

Most times, Oil burning means rings or valve. Very worn cyl walls won't help.
New seals on old valves may help but still loses oil.
Burning oil/coolant will kill the cat and O2 sensor.

Leaking oil check filter and OP sender. Both can leak w/ engine running and might not drip much or at all when the car is off.
Iffy/bad OP sender then use New 88 sender.
See my Cave, Oil Sensor

If you really want rebuild... look at jasper, some Auto parts stores, etc... They have engines ~$1500 for L4 w/ a warranty.

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[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 05-16-2015).]

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Report this Post05-18-2015 09:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by KillerFrogg:

An easy and cheap check, but take a look at your air filter and PCV valve. If one or worse both are dirty and especially the PCV plugged, can lead to increased oil consumption.


Good point I should have said that too.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 05:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey, not the PCV or air filter, both are new and no restrictions on it.

Without double checking again(I have it wrote down somewhere), I think three are high 140's and don't come up much with oil(pound or two) and the other one(if memory serves me correct), its the first cylinder closes to the drivers side that one has about low 130's and might come up to about mid 140's with oil.

I may try some kind of chemical down on the piston overnight and see if that helps.
I have the tripometer reset so I will monitor how much oil I will put in.

I guess another question do I have to get into spending $1200 - $1500 to do the old engine when I will probably only put 3000 or so miles on it each year? I was just hoping to get by with a ring job.

Question, is it possible to hone out the cylinders with the engine in the car, take head off, take basepan off and cover the crank(without removing)?
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Report this Post05-19-2015 06:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newfiejeff:

Hey, not the PCV or air filter, both are new and no restrictions on it.

Without double checking again(I have it wrote down somewhere), I think three are high 140's and don't come up much with oil(pound or two) and the other one(if memory serves me correct), its the first cylinder closes to the drivers side that one has about low 130's and might come up to about mid 140's with oil.

I may try some kind of chemical down on the piston overnight and see if that helps.
I have the tripometer reset so I will monitor how much oil I will put in.

I guess another question do I have to get into spending $1200 - $1500 to do the old engine when I will probably only put 3000 or so miles on it each year? I was just hoping to get by with a ring job.

Question, is it possible to hone out the cylinders with the engine in the car, take head off, take basepan off and cover the crank(without removing)?


The compression sounds a lot closer than was implied earlier. With the numbers that close, I don't think I'd bother opening the engine. If you do open it, then the cylinder wall condition will determine if you need to do more than just change rings.
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Report this Post05-19-2015 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think I will drive it more often now that this year it's really working well.

I will double check the compression again wet and dry and post back.

I put a post on the mall and got a chance for an 88 duke engine, how much is entailed to do a swap in my 86?
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Report this Post05-19-2015 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I replaced my '86 Duke with an '87 - as far as I understand, the '88 would be the same as far as installation goes.

The fuel lines hook up on the passenger side, so I made some lines to connect to the '86 lines on the driver's side.

The '88 air cleaner intake tube is longer.

Replace the '88 water pump with the '86 to keep the heater hose the same. The '88 heater hose connects to a 'Y' on the passenger side pipe under the door.

A little vacuum line customization will be required.

The '88 ECM will be needed including the mounting bracket. It's plug & play. (Or at least it was for me...)




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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-21-2015 08:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Here are the compression numbers, I thought the lower cylinder was further on the drivers side but I had it reversed.
starting from drivers side going to the passenger

dry 145 150 135 145
wet 146 152 149 149

What do you think of those numbers? What can I do with that lower cylinder?
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Neils88
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Report this Post05-21-2015 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by newfiejeff:

Here are the compression numbers, I thought the lower cylinder was further on the drivers side but I had it reversed.
starting from drivers side going to the passenger

dry 145 150 135 145
wet 146 152 149 149

What do you think of those numbers? What can I do with that lower cylinder?


Your compression is all great. No issues at all with these readings!
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-22-2015 03:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Valves causing the oil consumption?

I am going to attempt another leakdown test and report back.

[This message has been edited by newfiejeff (edited 05-22-2015).]

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Neils88
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Report this Post05-22-2015 04:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you checked or replaced your breather and PCV?
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newfiejeff
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Report this Post05-22-2015 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All new and see my latest thread, it may all be connected, probably why I am burning oil.

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/135566.html

[This message has been edited by newfiejeff (edited 05-22-2015).]

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84fiero123
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Report this Post05-22-2015 09:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Check the compression and see how things are.
How much oil are you adding and how often, what weight of oil, also how much is leaking?


just to be sure it is the rings, do a dry test first on each cylinder and then a wet test, spray a squirt of oil what ever you have into each cylinder before retesting and if the second test is higher than its definitely bad rings.

Old School Rules !

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Report this Post05-26-2015 07:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for newfiejeffClick Here to Email newfiejeffSend a Private Message to newfiejeffEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check the oil today and about 370klms/225 miles the car went down about half way on the crosshatch marks on the dipstick.

Not sure if this is a lot or not but it seems to me that it is.
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