Rich, are you using the heat-sink paste under the ICM??
This is a must. Also, those 2 mounting screws for the ICM must be in good shape. Those screws are the typical grounding point for the ICM. The fiero store sells them as your GM dealer.
The heat-sink paste is included with the ICM...anyways supposed too. The AC Delco ICM did with mine.
The ICM is the main origin of heat in that area, but sometimes distributors get gummed up over time and the shaft binds. I would pull the distributor and see how easily the rotor turns. You may need to rebuild it, which is a pretty easy job. People have moved the ICM to another location, but it is supposed to work where it is, and you still would have the heat problem to deal with.
Having same issue even with a brand new distributor, Odd how they keep going to hell. In my car it seems to be after I run it for a long time it gets hear soaked then if I shut it down and not let it cool off first before starting it fries it.
If you use AC Delco parts, there's no reason to have issues with you ignition system.
Anything electrical / ignition for the fiero, go AC Delco.
Something is definitely wrong here if the system is acting poorly or blowing components.
Having no name or cheap brands mixed with good brands, don't expect reliability of your system.
Since 2008 I installed an AC Delco ICM, ignition coil, ignition pick-up coil, MSD cap & rotor, and performance Taylor wires. My other 88GT has all AC Delco parts...since 88 except a new ICM, pick up coil, and MSD cap & rotor. The reason I changed these parts was for reliability. I keep the old ICM for a spare, and the pick-up coil is a normal maintenance item. Both 88s have a new distributor o-ring from Rodney Dickman. No leaks what so ever.
If you use AC Delco parts, there's no reason to have issues with you ignition system.
Anything electrical / ignition for the fiero, go AC Delco.
Something is definitely wrong here if the system is acting poorly or blowing components.
Having no name or cheap brands mixed with good brands, don't expect reliability of your system.
Since 2008 I installed an AC Delco ICM, ignition coil, ignition pick-up coil, MSD cap & rotor, and performance Taylor wires. My other 88GT has all AC Delco parts...since 88 except a new ICM, pick up coil, and MSD cap & rotor. The reason I changed these parts was for reliability. I keep the old ICM for a spare, and the pick-up coil is a normal maintenance item. Both 88s have a new distributor o-ring from Rodney Dickman. No leaks what so ever.
I hear AC Delco isnt the same as it used to be either. Where does the AC delco part have to be made to know its good? My ICM is BWD and has made it 4 years so far.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-04-2015).]
All the troubles in my '88 Formula can be traced back to a distributor that gets so hot you can't touch it. No wonder it keeps frying ICMs. Rich Truett
I would think this heat is normal, it should get as hot as the engine does right?
Rich, you say you are using the heat sink paste, but is it aftermarket paste or the stuff that comes with the module? Go to a computer store or Radio Shack and get some heat sink compound. Radio Shack has a white compound and a silver compound. Micro Center, Tiger Direct and other computer stores should also carry a high quality heat sink paste. Just don't use the clear stuff.
Another thing, don't be so quick to dispose of the 'dead' ICM. I have had many rejuvenate and die several times, like a cat with 9 lives. Let it cool completely, reinstall and see if the engine fires off. If it does, mark on the metal plate "SPARE" and keep in the trunk. It will eventually come in handy to get you home or to a parts store.
I have been using the paste the comes with the ICM. On one ICM I tried some silicone underneath. It didn't make a difference.
There's no way electrical components are going to work properly at that temperature.
I don't have stock AC spark plugs. I might have platinums in there or some other kind. I wonder if that is causing resistance and making the distributor heat up.
I am really close to putting the car on eBay and moving on. I can't keep replacing sensors and things and having the same failures.
Try checking to make sure your timing is correct and not too far advanced? Could be burning them up fast that way.. How's the cap/rotor look? fried too?
Maybe you can try jumping the coil/alternator cooling fan so it stays on all the time. I did that, it's nice to know there is always a fan cooling the area at all times. There's a posting on how to do that somewhere in this forum..
The paste that comes with the ICM is probably the wrong stuff......considering BWD and it's reputation. You need heat sink paste that is white or silver in color. I would also recommend a Delco ICM.
Platinum spark plugs are a known problem in the 2.8. You are right to be suspicious of them. Inexpensive stock plugs are best.
If you really do put it up for sale, be sure to let is know, because someone will be getting a good car. We all have read horror stories about lack of maintenance and wrong choices that make it tough to get Fieros reliable, but after you get through 25 years of what others have done wrong, you really have something.
Maybe you can try jumping the coil/alternator cooling fan so it stays on all the time. I did that, it's nice to know there is always a fan cooling the area at all times. There's a posting on how to do that somewhere in this forum..
Here's what I am going to do: Install new AC plugs Install Delco ICM, using heat sink paste from Radio Shack. Install new Sachs rear shocks (the last of the parts I bought) Everything else has already been done, including Sachs front shocks, four new Delco rotors and new pads.
If the next go round of sensor replacement doesn't do the trick, then I can't fix the car, and it has beaten me -- the only car ever to do so. And I have owned more than 50 and done 4 engine swaps. There comes a time when you just have to stop throwing money at things and move on. I am not there yet -- but I am close. The car works fine 99 percent of the time. But that one percent annoys the hell out of me. Whatever car you are in MUST IDLE.
Install new Sachs rear shocks (the last of the parts I bought)
I recommmend against this, I put them on our 86 and they lasted 4 months before they began creaking loudly. I coudl hardly believe it thought I must have done something wrong, but no both struts were bad. I put KYBs on and all was well.
Sachs failed for me. Used to be German, now say made in China.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 05-04-2015).]
If the next go round of sensor replacement doesn't do the trick, then I can't fix the car, and it has beaten me -- the only car ever to do so. And I have owned more than 50 and done 4 engine swaps. There comes a time when you just have to stop throwing money at things and move on. I am not there yet -- but I am close. The car works fine 99 percent of the time. But that one percent annoys the hell out of me. Whatever car you are in MUST IDLE.
Dont give up yet you just now finally got good advice. If you havent yet also replace the pick up coil. There are a few things that should be replaced with a bad ICM.
quote
Originally posted by Gall757: Other factors can ruin an ICM. too much resistance in the spark plug wires or a bad Ignition coil can do it.
The coil and wires, cap and rotor -- all new. All from Fiero store, with the exception of the coil. Trust me: I wouldn't be on here if I hadn't done all that to start with. Or if there were trouble codes. I know from my British Leyland vehicles that some cars just have weird idiosyncrasies. But I never expected a Fiero to be some completely evil. I wonder if there is an aftermarket distributor -- or maybe a Pertronix unit -- that could take the engine heat better than the stock distributor?
As for the Sachs shocks, these are Mexican-made parts. and they are nice -- so far.
I have a 180 degree thermostat and a lower temp fan switch on my 85 GT and it gets hot but not abnormally so. Does your car still have the original catalytic converter on it?
New AC plugs installed tonight gapped at 45, as per tune-up specs. Stopped by Radio Shack and picked up heat sink paste.
Delco ICM is now on order.
We'll see how she responds.
Man, I am getting good at this. I changed the plugs -- all six of 'em -- in just about 45 minutes tonight. The NGK's that came out all looked really nice. Very clean electrodes. No signs of anything amiss inside the engine.
I have never messed with the timing. The car has only 55,000 original miles. The original cat is still on the car. The stuff inside it is noisy, especially at startup, so that will have to be replaced. I will probably check the timing one night this week.
Thanks, everyone, for all your words of encouragement.
One of the little items that's over looked on the Fiero are it's grounds. The Fiero just doesn't ever have too many. Ground the engine to cradle and engine to chassis at any place you can find connection points. It helps resolve many electrical issues.
A good ignition coil, like the one you have is often much better than some of the high voltage units. There have been more than a few on this forum that have experienced module failures after upgrading to brands like Accel, MSD and others.
Under normal operating conditions, the distributor will get too hot to hold onto. Though there's not much air movement inside the distributor, using some brake or contact cleaner to blow out the two round screens in the bottom plate might help.
Test your coil to module lead for resistance to see if both wires are equal. If you can obtain another, try replacing the lead. Too much resistance in that lead can result in module failure.
Do you have a laser thermometer? Everyone working on mechanical things should have one. In your case you could check the actual temperature on all parts of the distributor and surrounding area to see where the overheat is coming from or if it actually is hotter. They are really fairly cheap now. Make sure you get one with the red dot as they are easier to aim at a particular spot. Harry
I used an ignition coil from a local auto parts store. Standard Motor Products, I think. I have not replaced the pickup coil.
I can order one of those...
R
The Red box Standard Brand IS the best you can buy --- Use the Search Feature here on Pennocks --- There are a couple of great articles on adding a heat sink to the dizzy and also (I think it's Patrick) had a modification to move the ICM from the dizzy to a remote mount away from he hi heat area.
My 85 GT has a heat shield on the side of the ignition coil. I don't know if the 88's do but it wouldn't hurt to put some heat shielding on if it doesn't have any.
BWD is good quality. Borg Warner Distributing makes very good parts.
This has come up a lot lately, for some reason. BWD is a brand for a parts supplier called Standard Motor Products. It has nothing to do with Borg Warner. Standard Motor Products supplies aftermarket components to the 'Big Box' auto parts stores. They are often the low cost alternative if you you have a choice of brands.
I personally have had quick failures or inaccurate readings from oil pressure, temperature gauge and coolant temperature sensors, all sold under the BWD brand. I've since changed to NAPA and use either ACDelco or Echlin parts labeled 'Made In USA' or 'Made In Canada.'
This has come up a lot lately, for some reason. BWD is a brand for a parts supplier called Standard Motor Products. It has nothing to do with Borg Warner. Standard Motor Products supplies aftermarket components to the 'Big Box' auto parts stores. They are often the low cost alternative if you you have a choice of brands.
Ignition -- Standard Motors Products (USA) is now the 'parent' company that manufactures and imports ignition components under the follow brand names. Blue Streak / GP Sorenson / OEM / Inter-motion / Standard / and BWD. Within these groups you will find levels of price driven quality. Standard Blue Streak is the ultra performance line (limited coverage) / Standard Red Box is OE Quality or better / Standard Green Box is the price point line. BWD and GP Sorenson have similar 'multi' price point packaging. When BWD was independently owned it had a sister line called Niehoff that also had a 'line within a line'. This allowed the manufactures to offer different levels of packaging, line support and price points to the many chains and sources of distribution. Most chain stores have the price point line in their private label boxes. Some 'Super Chains' think Advance/Quest have the upper line in private label on some part numbers, usually the better sellers. The import lines are generally re-boxed OE. In a nut shell you get what you pay for - Rock Auto is a good reference point to check to see the price difference. Just look up a distributor cap for a FIERO. In my 20 year career in the auto parts business I sold and represented a number of lines. There is a big difference in the materials used in the manufacture of the plastics and electrical used in ignition and not enough room here to write it up. We are also dealing with 20+ year old vehicles with a limited fan base therefore the good parts are getting harder to find! If anyone is making 'new parts' it is manufactured to a price point (Think AC DELCO) and you can bet it's from an off shore source. If you plan on keeping your vehicle and can find items of quality---buy two.
