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Anyone changed the clutch on a V6 without pulling engine or dropping cradle? by Todd Hayes
Started on: 05-03-2015 03:51 PM
Replies: 11 (446 views)
Last post by: 2.5 on 05-05-2015 10:27 AM
Todd Hayes
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Report this Post05-03-2015 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Todd HayesClick Here to Email Todd HayesSend a Private Message to Todd HayesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Years ago I seem to remember someone had changed the clutch on a v6 without pulling the engine or dropping the cradle,. Is it possible?

Thanks!
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Report this Post05-03-2015 04:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tom10122Click Here to Email tom10122Send a Private Message to tom10122Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
From Fiero factory

" You don't have to drop the engine and cradle to remove the transaxle. You are going to pivot the cradle and remove the transaxle from under the left lower frame rail. No need to unwire the engine or even drain the coolant. However, you WILL need a special tool to make it easier.............a piece of 2X4 about 8" long! Also, jackstands and a floor jack.
Do the following from the top. Disconnect the battery, take the "S" air inlet tube off and detach the dogbone from either end. Remove the slave and it's heat shield and mount bracket, leave the line attached, and hang it out of the way. Take the shift cables, back up light, and VSS connections loose. Remove the exhaust crossover bolts to manifold and heat shields, disconnect the EGR valve pipe from the adapter (carefully or it WILL crack, may anyway). After getting the car on jackstands, remove the starter to get the dustshield off. Then replace the starter (important part of the trick). On the drivers side remove wheel well, break the tierod from the spindle, remove the pinch bolt from the ball joint, take the emergency cable off the caliper, remove the caliper or the hydraulic line (we do that and bleed later), the three strut bolts from inside the engine compartment. and then using a prybar, "pop" the axle out of the trans. This allows removing the entire left suspension including the axle (except lower control arm) as a unit without messing up alignment when reinstalled and it leaves a "clean" space for the trans to come through.

Place floor jack (with piece of flat wood) under the engine oil pan for support/slight lift. Remove trans mounts and BRACKETS. Lower engine/trans onto "Special Tool 2X4" placed between starter and engine cradle. Remove select cable bracket. Removing the various brackets gives less possibilities of catching the trans on anything. Then place floor jack under the rear of cradle and remove the cradle bolts on pass side rear, and drs side front and rear. Lower jack until necessary trans clearance is attained. This will kink the coolant hose but no harm should happen as the necessary clearance is just before that point. Remove bellhousing bolts (remembering where the studded ones are, and that the lowest one toward the trunk is from the pass side). If you do not have enough clearance to remove the bolts, then remove the exhaust crossover from the downpipe. Remove trans axle. Should take about 1 1/2-2 1/2 hours. You will need an extra hand to reinstall. That is used to guide the pass axle into the trans. Should take 2-3 hrs. Suggest you remove the clutch and inspect. Also remove the flywheel and reseal the cam cover (use black RTV, not a gasket). Rear main seal if leaking.

This is basically what is required to change a clutch in 84-87 Fieros.. In the case of the imput bearing/release bearing collar has snapped off the Getrag 5 spd at the bellhousing, if so, "Proper" way is to split the trans case and drive the bearing out from the inside. Rodney has the necessary pages, for only a few $, from the Pontiac manual explaining how to split the 5 spd case (88 was the only manual with instructions). "Improper" way is to carefully cut the remaining bearing out with a dremel tool, flush the trans several times, and install a new imput bearing, all from the outside. Either way will take several hours. NOTE: With the 88 cradle being hard mounted, it will not tip. It has to be rotated from both front attaching bolts. This requires the removal of both rear strut assemblies. The lateral links can be left on the cradle (similar to a control arm) and will be out of the way. Special Tool "2X4" is still the key. The engine wiring (not the ground strap attached to the trunk hinge, take that loose) and hoses have just enough slack to allow rotating the engine until it is nearly touching the trunk wall. That will give sufficient clearance to remove the trans. "


http://www.thefierofactory.com/qaeasyremoval.php

[This message has been edited by tom10122 (edited 05-03-2015).]

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tom10122
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Report this Post05-03-2015 04:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tom10122Click Here to Email tom10122Send a Private Message to tom10122Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

tom10122

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Edit: Double post

[This message has been edited by tom10122 (edited 05-03-2015).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post05-03-2015 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Todd Hayes:

Is it possible?


No.

The cradle can pivot on the front mounts and be tipped down to pull the tranny, but in essence the cradle is still "dropped". I've done it this way a couple of times... wasn't too bad.
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Old Lar
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Report this Post05-03-2015 04:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Old LarSend a Private Message to Old LarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have "helped" in swapping a clutch without dropping the engine, but it was a PITA.
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Shho13
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Report this Post05-03-2015 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Out of curiosity they say this is for the 84-87... is it completely impossible to do this on an 88?

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Patrick
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Report this Post05-03-2015 05:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Shho13:

... is it completely impossible to do this on an 88?


What is meant by "this"?

The following applied to my '84 duke and my '88 Formula...

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

The cradle can pivot on the front mounts and be tipped down to pull the tranny, but in essence the cradle is still "dropped". I've done it this way a couple of times... wasn't too bad.

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Report this Post05-03-2015 07:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The critical task with a clutch replacement that requires the most space (6-8" from bellhousing face of engine) is installing the clutch disk alignment tool before you tighten down the pressure plate bolts (and pulling it back out). Everything else you only need the engine/transmission about 2-3" apart. You will not get the room needed with the engine & transmission bolted to the cradle.

If all you are doing is replacing the clutch, and you have access to a twin post lift (or low profile scissor lift), and have an engine support brace... then (and only then) is it quicker/easier to just drop or rotate the cradle down 90 degrees to get it completely out of your way. If you can only rotate it down 45 degrees, then it will be in the way and greatly complicate the reinstall of the transmission.

If you want to do more than the clutch, or don't have a twin post lift or the needed engine support beam... its easier to just drop the whole cradle and do the work out in the open.

Remember, the transmission is about 90 lbs... and if it doesn't start out feeling heavy, after a minute or two of holding it while trying to get the input shaft splines aligned, it will get very, very heavy. You can make the best of it by using whatever method gives you the best body position to support the transmission.
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Formula88
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Report this Post05-03-2015 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Formula88Send a Private Message to Formula88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Shho13:

Out of curiosity they say this is for the 84-87... is it completely impossible to do this on an 88?



I've swapped several 88 clutches, both 4 and 6 cylinder.
You disconnect the strut top plats, dog bone and rear cradle bolts and slowly pivot the rear of the cradle down until you have enough clearance to take the transmission out the wheel well.

Obviously, the suspension, wheel well liner, etc. have to also come off. Have someone watching to make sure no hoses or wires get hung up as you can rip some loose if they're not routed just right. If you have a engine hoist, dropping the entire cradle may be easier, but this method does have the advantage of not having to take all the coolant and fuel lines off.

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

Remember, the transmission is about 90 lbs... and if it doesn't start out feeling heavy, after a minute or two of holding it while trying to get the input shaft splines aligned, it will get very, very heavy. You can make the best of it by using whatever method gives you the best body position to support the transmission.


Excellent point. I found out by accident that Mercedes Benz head bolts studs fit the Fiero engine bellhousing, so I thread a couple of those in on the bellhousing to hang the tranny on, then slide it in. It's still a bear getting the tranny on those bolts, but you're not mucking around the input shaft while you're doing it.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 05-03-2015).]

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2.5
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Report this Post05-04-2015 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Whats a stock V6 Fiero clutch job cost in parts, and how many hours at a shop?
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-04-2015 10:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While the stick trans can be removed with the methods described above, we find it much easier to just drop the cradle to change the clutch. Dropping the cradle, even for the inexperienced, is about a half days labor. Separating the trans, installing the clutch and putting the cradle back in place is another half days work. Is it simpler to remove the wheel house liner, then disconnect the lower control arm and strut and lower the cradle or is it simpler just to drop the cradle down? I can tell you one thing, alignment and installation of the trans to the engine is much easier with the cradle down. At least for me it is.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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2.5
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Report this Post05-05-2015 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

While the stick trans can be removed with the methods described above, we find it much easier to just drop the cradle to change the clutch. Dropping the cradle, even for the inexperienced, is about a half days labor. Separating the trans, installing the clutch and putting the cradle back in place is another half days work. Is it simpler to remove the wheel house liner, then disconnect the lower control arm and strut and lower the cradle or is it simpler just to drop the cradle down? I can tell you one thing, alignment and installation of the trans to the engine is much easier with the cradle down. At least for me it is.



Half a day as in 4 hours, x2? So $800 labor if its $100 per hour. Plus parts.
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