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Can't Remove Wing Stands, Screws Spinning Inside Wing, HELP by Rocky Top
Started on: 04-26-2015 10:15 PM
Replies: 16 (517 views)
Last post by: 84fiero123 on 04-30-2015 09:43 AM
Rocky Top
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Report this Post04-26-2015 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rocky TopClick Here to Email Rocky TopSend a Private Message to Rocky TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trying to remove wing stands from wing. Some screws came out. Others just spinning inside wing. It is otherwise in good shape. Can't drill them out because they just spin. Will I need to cut sections out of the wing to hold the "inside" spinning nut ? Opinions ?Solutions ?
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Tony Kania
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Report this Post04-26-2015 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Tony KaniaSend a Private Message to Tony KaniaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pry slowly. Take the nut with the stud. Mine too spun. I epoxied new nuts back in, and restudded my wing. Good luck.

Edit: Give this thread some time. Others, those that are MUCH smarter than I, may chime in.

[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 04-26-2015).]

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MadMark
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Report this Post04-26-2015 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MadMarkClick Here to Email MadMarkSend a Private Message to MadMarkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the same thing happen on my 88. I ended up buying a different wing so I could install taller wing stands.
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Shho13
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Report this Post04-26-2015 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Usually if the bolts/screws are just spinning and not coming out, the adhesive or whatever that holds little threaded sleeves to secure those mounting screws through the wing is no longer holding and should just pull apart.

Try giving it a little tug and see if it comes apart.

Watch this video starting at 0:57 seconds.

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Red 1988 GT under restoration!

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fierofool
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Report this Post04-27-2015 12:19 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The stands use a well-nut for attachment to the wing.

With the stand removed, the long shank inserts into the wing. The shoulder prevents it from going all the way inside and also acts as a cushion between the wing and stand mounting surfaces. Inside the shank is a threaded brass sleeve. When the screw is inserted through the stand and into the well-nut and tightened, the threaded sleeve is pulled toward the screw, causing the shank to mushroom inside the wing, keeping it from pulling out.

Tony has the right procedure. You can exert a little force between the stand and wing while trying to turn the screw. It's best to use a small V-shaped staple puller so you can exert equal force on either side of the screw hole. Also, you want to work all screws just a little at a time so that you don't put too much force on one that's not equally loose. If you have a Dremel, or small de-burring tool that you can put into a drill, you might be able to pry slightly between the wing and stand to keep the screw from spinning, and grind off the head. Once you have the stand loose, you can finish removing the head and push the remaining pieces down inside the wing because they're mushroomed and you won't be able to pull them through the wing holes.

The well-nuts are made by Au-Ve-Co and might be found at some of the better stocked Ace Hardware stores, Tractor Supply or paint and body shops. They're still a common item used on GM cars, so you may find them at a dealer parts store. The size is either M6 x 1 or M6 x 1 x 5.5. I can't find my box to be positive, but I'm reasonably sure it's the M6 x 1. You will need a total of 6 plus the brass screws to go with the nuts.
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Rocky Top
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Report this Post04-27-2015 07:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Rocky TopClick Here to Email Rocky TopSend a Private Message to Rocky TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for suggestions. Hopefully I can save the wing without too much damage. It's the screw(s) deep in the wing stand cavity that will probably be biggest challenge.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post04-27-2015 07:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have seen some OEM wings that didn't have the well-nuts but the nuts are fuzed in the spoiler. If you can't get it out, try drilling off the head (or grinding off the head)... watch that you don't build up heat.

Buy new well nuts and stainless screws.
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fierofool
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Report this Post04-27-2015 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Something like this to get down inside and grind off the head of the screw. They have one that's 6 1/2 inches long by 1/2 inch diameter.

[URL=http://www.grainger.com/product/MONSTER-Single-Cut-Carbide-Bur-WP109442/_/N-1z0du7h?s_pp=false&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/22XY65_AW01?$smthumb$#nav=%2Fproduct%2FMONSTER-Single-Cut-Carbide-Bur-WP109442%2F_%2FN-pc8Z1z0du7hZ1z0ex knZ1z]http://www.grainger.com/pro...8Z1z0du7hZ1z0exknZ1z[/URL] 0n11dZ1z0o3c1%3FR%3D22YD47%26_%3D1430135543801%26picUrl%3D%252F%252Fstatic.grainger.com%252Frp%252Fs%252Fis%252Fimage%252FGrainger%252F22XY65_AW01%253F%2524smthumb%2524%26s_pp%3Dfalse

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 04-27-2015).]

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carguy8t8
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Report this Post04-29-2015 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for carguy8t8Click Here to Email carguy8t8Send a Private Message to carguy8t8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Try a little heat on the nuts under the trunk lid. Sometimes the black butyl that was used to seal the hole will get into the threads and bond the nut to the stud. Heat will break the bond by melting the butyl. A heat gun would probably work best here but a propane torch could be used if you are very careful. I recently had the same problem on the three rear roof panel nuts. I heated them up with a propane torch and the nuts came right off.
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fierofool
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carguy8t8:

Try a little heat on the nuts under the trunk lid.


I think he already has the spoiler off the decklid, but heating the studs is a good suggestion for removing the spoiler from the lid.

I saw a spoiler that had the stands removed and a previous owner had used small molly drywall anchors. They had a metal flange and as the screw was tightened, the pieces inside the wing bent outward. Like this: http://www.thisoldhouse.com...461_20813047,00.html They had cracked the wing, itself, I guess because there was no cushion on the inside, or they were tightened too much. Most of this type that I've seen have two or 3 barbs on the flange that bite into the surface to keep it from spinning. You definitely don't want to use these. Aside from damaging the wing, you will never be able to remove or replace them.
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Rocky Top
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Rocky TopClick Here to Email Rocky TopSend a Private Message to Rocky TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got the wind stands off. Pried under the wing while turning screw. Used a flat piece of metal laid across the wing to prevent damage to it while prying. Once the screws were up a little I locked vice grips on the head and pried as close as possible to the screw while twisting. Needless to say what was left of the inserts came out with the rust bonded nuts.

One of the stands didn't fare so well. Very brittle stuff. Broke off a couple of the hole corners. Oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Time to order replacements inserts, screws and possibly wing stands. They weren't in very good shape anyway. Don't know if they can be recovered. A shabby repair could result in my wing flying down the Interstate without a Fiero attached.
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fierofool
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
One of my cars had one corner hole of the wing stand broken off. I replaced all the well-nuts and bolted it back on with 1 corner screw and the one inside and it never came off. The other stand helps to stabilize it.
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grkboy707
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Report this Post04-30-2015 07:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for grkboy707Click Here to Email grkboy707Send a Private Message to grkboy707Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I used jack nuts that worked perfectly. Those are what the car originally had. PM me if you'd like me to send you some. They do require a riv-nut tool to install though.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post04-30-2015 07:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by grkboy707:

I used jack nuts that worked perfectly. Those are what the car originally had.


I think most came with well nuts, which have a brass insert. I recommend those and a stainless screw. No more issues of corrosion and such....

I have seen some with the metal inserted into the fiberglass and those are the ones I had problems with.
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fierofool
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Report this Post04-30-2015 08:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:


I think most came with well nuts, which have a brass insert. I recommend those and a stainless screw. No more issues of corrosion and such....

I have seen some with the metal inserted into the fiberglass and those are the ones I had problems with.


Yes, they did come with well-nuts. They are the smaller of the two sizes used to install the luggage racks and are shown in the P22 Fiero Parts Book. GM Cross Reference 10027795. Au-Ve-Co part number 16248. When I replaced mine, I also bought brass screws since they were easier to find than stainless. I applied a dab of anti-seize to each screw.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post04-30-2015 09:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:


Yes, they did come with well-nuts. They are the smaller of the two sizes used to install the luggage racks and are shown in the P22 Fiero Parts Book. GM Cross Reference 10027795. Au-Ve-Co part number 16248. When I replaced mine, I also bought brass screws since they were easier to find than stainless. I applied a dab of anti-seize to each screw.


Just to be clear, not all OEM spoilers came with well-nuts. It depends when they were made. The spoilers were not made by GM, but by a third-party supplier. I did hear that when GM canceled the Fiero, the company cut up a bunch of spoilers from their inventory (I guess they were not needed).

There are running changes with the spoilers. The '88s seem to have the most noticeable change (other than fastback vs notchback stands) is that they curve up slightly in the center. At least that is my observation over the years.
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84fiero123
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Report this Post04-30-2015 09:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 84fiero123Click Here to Email 84fiero123Send a Private Message to 84fiero123Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:


Just to be clear, not all OEM spoilers came with well-nuts. It depends when they were made. The spoilers were not made by GM, but by a third-party supplier. I did hear that when GM canceled the Fiero, the company cut up a bunch of spoilers from their inventory (I guess they were not needed).

There are running changes with the spoilers. The '88s seem to have the most noticeable change (other than fastback vs notchback stands) is that they curve up slightly in the center. At least that is my observation over the years.


I was working at GM in that time period and we called those Nutserts if these are what you are talking about.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie...ef=pd_sl_153r9rwmj_e
Some engineer thought those up, they gave us those to hold door pad assist straps on the 80s Oldsmobile's, I think they lasted a year before we found a faster more secure long lasting way to hold those on. That saved money, time, repairs and was stronger in the assist strap area anyway. My idea buy the way, That I never got a penny for !

So far I have not had to take my wing off, never mind apart so as far as that goes you better take the advise of those who have.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 04-30-2015).]

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