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Filling/bleeding new brake system by jonrev
Started on: 04-21-2015 10:23 PM
Replies: 10 (398 views)
Last post by: gen2muchwork on 04-24-2015 06:35 AM
jonrev
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Report this Post04-21-2015 10:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jonrevClick Here to visit jonrev's HomePageClick Here to Email jonrevSend a Private Message to jonrevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rebuilding the entire brake system (except booster) on my 88 Formula. Going in are:

-ACDelco MC
-FieroStore SS hard lines
-FieroStore SS braided hoses
-rebuilt Brakebest calipers all-around
-Wagner Thermoquiet pads
-ACDelco rotors.

I assume I still need to bench bleed the MC; once that is in what is the procedure for filling the rest of the system? Open the bleeders and let gravity do its thing?

Thanks

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[This message has been edited by jonrev (edited 04-22-2015).]

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Shho13
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Report this Post04-21-2015 11:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds like fun! I did mine last year with the exception of replacing the brake lines since mine were still in good shape due to it apparently being undercoated at some point!

Install everything first, pads too! Make sure you don't get brake fluid on the new pads and rotors or you will need a few cans of brake clean to clean them up!

I would bench bleed the master cylinder before installing it; leave the cover off for now. Attach to the new system with all four bleeders open until fluid comes out at each wheel. Keep an eye on the fluid level! This should work fine but If that doesn't get the ball rolling with fluid flow through the system put the cover back on the master cylinder, close all the bleeders up except the passenger side rear and have a friend simply press the pedal to the floor and hold it. Close that bleeder and now simply release the pedal... DON'T "PUMP IT UP" FOR A HARD BRAKE PEDAL! (If you pump the pedal with air in the lines; especially since it is a new system, you are just pushing the air back and forth in the lines... you just want to push the air out!) Re open the bleeder and repeat the process on all four wheels. Keep an eye on the fluid level!

After you get most of the air out continue with conventional brake bleeding going from passenger side rear to driver side rear to passenger side front to driver side front.

This is how I did mine, and my brakes feel better than ever! Remember to adjust the rear calipers!

Keep in mind, remember;make sure the cover is back on the master cylinder before you press that brake pedal down to manually bleed it or you will have a volcano of brake fluid spray everywhere! :P

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Red 1988 GT under restoration!

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[This message has been edited by Shho13 (edited 04-21-2015).]

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jw3
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Report this Post04-22-2015 06:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jw3Click Here to Email jw3Send a Private Message to jw3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What he said, except you want to start with the driver's side rear due to how the lines are routed.
Driver's side rear caliper is the farthest away from the master cylinder.
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theogre
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Report this Post04-22-2015 10:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have not order Brake hoses... see rubber brake lines vs stainless steel
88 "rubber" SAE J1401 hoses are available thru RA etc as RAYBESTOS/ACDELCO "Professional Grade" hoses.

You should bench bleed MC because MC is not level after install.
See my Cave, Bleeding MC notes

Many/most MC come w/ a bleeding kit... Two rubber lines and fittings.
After bleed cap the tank and pinch off the bleed lines to stop spilling fluid during install. Just fold the rubber and "tie off" with scrap wire, etc.

Rise the kit w/ water after done, Dry off and Save. The kit can come in handy sometime when problem happen.

All years, Drivers rear is farthest from the master cylinder in a Fiero but Bleed Order often does not = farthest from MC.
GM Bleed order is to give fastest time to bleed.
 
quote
4. If it is necessary to bleed all of the calipers, the following conventional sequence should be followed:
a. right rear
b. left rear
c. right front
d. left front
Source: 88 FSM, page BRAKES 5-8

Front calipers have direct line to combi valve and really does not matter.
Rear order get air free fluid on shortest section on line and close caliper then bleeding next short line and caliper.

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css9450
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Report this Post04-22-2015 11:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Some good videos on bench-bleeding the MC on Youtube.
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jonrev
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Report this Post04-22-2015 04:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jonrevClick Here to visit jonrev's HomePageClick Here to Email jonrevSend a Private Message to jonrevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
-Bleed MC noted. Came with plastic plugs for bench bleeding but no rubber lines.

-Got SS hoses well-before reading up, but will be sticking with and monitoring them.

Rotors will be scrubbed and calipers will be loaded; both probably going on tonight. Think I need to rotate one of the rear pistons because compared to the other one I'm sure it's not all the way down. Hoses will be figured out tomorrow and then I will probably start bleeding.

What all do I grease (spring pins on calipers?) and is blue Loctite/teflon tape recommended for securing anything (T55 slider bolts, line fittings, etc.)?
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Report this Post04-22-2015 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jonrev:

What all do I grease (spring pins on calipers?) and is blue Loctite/teflon tape recommended for securing anything (T55 slider bolts, line fittings, etc.)?


The sliders need to be greased so they move back and forth within the bores on the calipers. Being new rebuilds, yours should be OK. Check and make sure they move. If you wanted to be sure, you could take the sliders out and re-grease them but then you're faced with having to get them back in with the boots back in their slots properly. Probably better to leave them alone.

The springs and roll pins shouldn't need any grease that I'm aware of, unless maybe a dab at the back of the outer pad to prevent rattles. But I think the springs on the 88s calipers do a good job of preventing rattles.

I use blue Loctite on my T55 bolts. I had one come loose and fall out some years ago! I was on the way to a car show and started hearing a clunk every time I applied the brakes. The second bolt was starting to come just loose enough to let the caliper rock in and out a little and make the clunk. Better I caught it when I did than have the caliper come off entirely and get jammed there between the wheel and spindle somewhere. Now I use the Loctite.

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theogre
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Report this Post04-22-2015 11:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jonrev:
What all do I grease (spring pins on calipers?) and is blue Loctite/teflon tape recommended for securing anything (T55 slider bolts, line fittings, etc.)?

Only use Brake grease! Coat inside slider hole and slider itself.
Brake rubber hates most oil and grease including synthetics.

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jonrev
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Report this Post04-23-2015 06:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jonrevClick Here to visit jonrev's HomePageClick Here to Email jonrevSend a Private Message to jonrevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Calipers were reman'd so the sliders were already well-greased; was only referring to hardware, earlier.

Calipers and rotors went in tonight, I left a very thin film of the Moly brake grease that came with the Wagner pads on the roll pins and blue-Loctite'd the T55 bolts. Could not get P/S parking brake cable to reach lever however I'll deal with it later - at this time I don't plan on getting the P-brake operational, just need to get the car drivable by the end of next week.

Tomorrow I will start hooking up hoses and tightening hard line fittings. On the hoses I know to replace the copper washers, but can the banjo bolts from the old calipers be re-used or should I replace them?

[This message has been edited by jonrev (edited 04-24-2015).]

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jonrev
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Report this Post04-24-2015 03:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jonrevClick Here to visit jonrev's HomePageClick Here to Email jonrevSend a Private Message to jonrevEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anyone have pics of how they ran their hoses? Am only finding images of pre-88's.

[Edit: Nevermind, got some answers...]

[This message has been edited by jonrev (edited 04-24-2015).]

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gen2muchwork
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Report this Post04-24-2015 06:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gen2muchworkClick Here to Email gen2muchworkSend a Private Message to gen2muchworkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jonrev:

On the hoses I know to replace the copper washers, but can the banjo bolts from the old calipers be re-used or should I replace them?



ok to use banjo bolts again, not ok to use washers.
For the parking brake... I used two vice grips to hold the cables extended out behind the cradle, then dropped them in the splice connector thingy. You really want them to work. do this after you bleed maybe. you dont want that piston moving around too much without fluid in there.
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