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How much power can a Fiero handle? by Koert
Started on: 04-18-2015 10:25 PM
Replies: 123 (3302 views)
Last post by: Koert on 05-16-2015 11:38 PM
Koert
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Report this Post04-21-2015 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Great news!! I found a getrag 5 speed for only 150 dollar. I am EXCITED haha. I have nobody to tell it too, so I decided to post it.
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Report this Post04-21-2015 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROPHREK:
The Getrag was in the 87-88 GT's and 88 Formula's. Someone correct me if i'm wrong but I'm thinking 861/2 GT's had the getrag. Not sure if the 86 SE had a getrag or the 4spd. There are other GM cars that ran the getrag and can be used in the fiero with the apropriate swap parts. You can always have your part cryo treated to help beef them up.


All 86+ V6 cars had the 5 speed Getrag after it was introduced. There is no "86 1/2". All early 1986 V6 cars had the 4 speed.
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Report this Post04-21-2015 12:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

dobey

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quote
Originally posted by Koert:


I absolutely don't think it will be done in a weekend, my planning is to buy a SBC in this summer and get it ready, then build a wiring harness, than do all the other stuff required while saving up for a new tranny than I will buy the tranny and put everything together as far as I can do that without putting it in the engine yet. Than when all that is done I will wait until I am off from school for at least 2 weeks and I will try to take the Iron duke out myself and then get all my friends over just to put everything into place.
Thanks for the help, I know there is a ton of building threats out there. And I have gone through many of them but sometimes things are confusing and the one person says this and the other says something else, so I like to post questions just so I can compare everyone's opinions and take the best conclusion for myself. I appreciate you being worried about my Fiero but I have enough people telling me why I shouldn't do it, so I come here for some support. You do sound like one of the people that knows what is involved, and yes there is still a ton that I need to learn, but while I am doing it I will learn so much, and I will research for hours and hours. Also I don't NEED my car every day, so if the actual swap doesn't work in 2 weeks like I hope than it is not like I am in trouble for transportation.


Why are you planning to go with the SBC? How much money do you plan to spend on the swap? These and all the other questions I asked in http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/135223.html#p15 are very important things you need to answer before you really decide on anything.
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Report this Post04-21-2015 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Koert:

Okay, so I can keep pretty much everything stock and go like 130 miles an hour without anything breaking down?

Also stock transmission or should I really swap that too?
If I have to swap my transmission too I would like to get a 6 speed, but that is probably very expensive is it?
What transmission would you guys recommend?


Haha, sounds like a post I would have said a couple years ago... If the GPS was accurate with my 3800sc my buddy and I got over 145mph... It was scary but frankly wasn't that bad.. Since then I got smart and rebuilt the whole suspension, whole brakes, better front aero too... Now with my turbo I can cruise 180mph all day! ;P

------------------
1987 Fiero GTX 3800 Turbo... My Build, ST3 Cam, Lowered, Wheels, and pics enjoy!http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/089483.html

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Report this Post04-21-2015 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PacNWFieroSend a Private Message to PacNWFieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Great news!! I found a getrag 5 speed for only 150 dollar. I am EXCITED haha. I have nobody to tell it too, so I decided to post it.


I hate to be a stick in the mud, but be careful about cheap transmissions. While you might be getting a great deal, you may also be getting a dud transmission that will fall apart quickly. Again, I wish you the best of luck if you choose to buy it, but be warned.

------------------
'88 Formula T-Tops

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Koert
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Report this Post04-22-2015 07:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by PacNWFiero:


I hate to be a stick in the mud, but be careful about cheap transmissions. While you might be getting a great deal, you may also be getting a dud transmission that will fall apart quickly. Again, I wish you the best of luck if you choose to buy it, but be warned.



Yes, I know, I actually wondered when someone would warn me about that. But it came out of a BMW and it has "Only" 36.000 miles on it, which is good for the price. And I'll give it a good inspection before I buy it, but the guy is a mechanic and he didn't sound like he would sell me junk. But of course I don't know.
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Koert
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Report this Post04-22-2015 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Koert

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quote
Originally posted by IanT720:


Haha, sounds like a post I would have said a couple years ago... If the GPS was accurate with my 3800sc my buddy and I got over 145mph... It was scary but frankly wasn't that bad.. Since then I got smart and rebuilt the whole suspension, whole brakes, better front aero too... Now with my turbo I can cruise 180mph all day! ;P



Well, going 180mph doesn't sound like cruising to me haha. Sounds awesome though!
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Report this Post04-22-2015 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Why are you planning to go with the SBC? How much money do you plan to spend on the swap? These and all the other questions I asked in http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/135223.html#p15 are very important things you need to answer before you really decide on anything.


I want to do the small block chevy because they are around a lot and easy to get. Also it has been done a lot, and there is tons and tons of info available about 350 small blocks, most people who rebuild old cars use a 350 SB, also there is a huge aftermarket. I will spend as much money as I need to, even if I am still buying parts for my car in a year or two. This is like my dream, and I am going to make it happen. I have wanted this since I bought the car, the guy who sold it to me recommended me to find a supercharged SMC and out it in. That is what he had done to some of them, and he was going to do it to this Fiero too, but he needed money for a car for his wife.
I have read your questions and I appreciate the time you take in answering my many questions and I have many more. But I feel like I am bothering because how I feel like you are like:
"That kid has no clue what he is doing... This is going to be a disaster."
I am pretty confident that I will make it. I hope in the summer of 2016. Or at least get close to being done.
But do you think I should not use the SBC?
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Report this Post04-22-2015 09:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wait, you bought a tranny from a BMW? That will not work. Getrag makes a gazillion transmissions

Not trying to be a jerk, but from just reading this whole thread, you are in WAY over your head.

[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 04-22-2015).]

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Report this Post04-22-2015 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Koert:


Yes, I know, I actually wondered when someone would warn me about that. But it came out of a BMW and it has "Only" 36.000 miles on it, which is good for the price. And I'll give it a good inspection before I buy it, but the guy is a mechanic and he didn't sound like he would sell me junk. But of course I don't know.


how are you going to get a BMW rear wheel drive longitudinal transmission work in a fiero . you seem to have great enthusiasm but you need to read about what you are going to do and learn more so you do it right
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Report this Post04-23-2015 10:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Koert:
I want to do the small block chevy because they are around a lot and easy to get. Also it has been done a lot, and there is tons and tons of info available about 350 small blocks, most people who rebuild old cars use a 350 SB, also there is a huge aftermarket. I will spend as much money as I need to, even if I am still buying parts for my car in a year or two. This is like my dream, and I am going to make it happen. I have wanted this since I bought the car, the guy who sold it to me recommended me to find a supercharged SMC and out it in. That is what he had done to some of them, and he was going to do it to this Fiero too, but he needed money for a car for his wife.
I have read your questions and I appreciate the time you take in answering my many questions and I have many more. But I feel like I am bothering because how I feel like you are like:
"That kid has no clue what he is doing... This is going to be a disaster."
I am pretty confident that I will make it. I hope in the summer of 2016. Or at least get close to being done.
But do you think I should not use the SBC?


What I think is that your enthusiasm and posts seem like you're still young and in school, and you don't quite know what you're getting yourself into. If you are really going to go with an SBC, you're likely going to end up spending $10K to get it done (or you will never get it done because it costs too much), and you'll end up with only 200 HP or so. SBCs are indeed plentiful and easy to find, and can be had for cheap, but the cheap ones almost always need rebuilt and don't make much power at all. They are certainly common things to swap into older cars, as most older GM cars were available with one. But they were almost all front endgine rear wheel drive vehicles, and not Fieros. A lot of older guys like to put SBCs in anything and everything, simply because SBCs are all they know, and all they have to do to "tune" them is turn a screwdriver.

I think you need to hold off on buying anything or doing anything to the car, until you do a lot more research, especially since you're talking about buying a Getrag out of a BMW. Getrag is just an engineering firm in Europe that designs and builds transmissions. The Getrag 282 in the Fiero was designed by Getrag and built in Indiana at GM's Muncie transmission plant.
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Report this Post04-23-2015 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Koert,

I hope you can take all this advice in the constructive manner that it is being given. Collectively, there is a vast amount of valuable knowledge and experience available here at PFF. Listen closely to the advice since it will save you thousands of dollars and likely save you from getting in way over your head. Inexperience could even lead to you or someone else getting badly injured.

There are lots of things you should tackle before you jump into an engine swap. Start with things such as the interior, the stereo system, complete tune-up of your current engine, etc, etc. These are things that you can do slowly with minimum amounts of money. It's a way to get your hands dirty learning everything you can about the car. You really need much more research and base mechanical knowledge before you are ready to commit to something bigger. You'll get there, but don't rush it !
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Report this Post04-24-2015 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For many folks including myself considering buying an already swapped car (someday) makes more sense.
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Report this Post04-24-2015 12:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for no2pencilClick Here to Email no2pencilSend a Private Message to no2pencilEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

4. The second indication that you are going too fast will be the headlight doors slamming open and scaring the .......... out of you.


I saw head-lamp hold downs for sale on a website (some years ago) & the caption read "you already know if you need these".
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Report this Post04-24-2015 11:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, it does make me feel very stupid. I thought that a getrag was a type of tranny. Good that all you guys are here

Sorry to all the people who think I shouldn't start the swap yet. I am going to start to collect all the things I will need for it. That is just the thing I really really want to do. So I will fight myself through all the problems. Don't worry too much though. nothing will happen to my car for a long time. Well of course the minor things like oil change and stuff like that, but that doesn't have anything to do with the swap.

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Report this Post04-26-2015 10:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for f85gtronSend a Private Message to f85gtronEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Making do with what you can find is how advances and discoveries are made. If you can see in your head how to get there, why not take that path? If you run into trouble, just post and someone will help. Please check out the Ga site. They've done everything under the sun that was not supposed to be possible. These forums are your best friend. They're also good about slapping reality back into you when you've lost your mind!
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Report this Post04-29-2015 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by f85gtron:

Making do with what you can find is how advances and discoveries are made. If you can see in your head how to get there, why not take that path? If you run into trouble, just post and someone will help. Please check out the Ga site. They've done everything under the sun that was not supposed to be possible. These forums are your best friend. They're also good about slapping reality back into you when you've lost your mind!


Thank you!!! There responses are why I am a fan of this forum.
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Report this Post04-30-2015 12:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 4 speed from the 85/86 is the strongest. It is a 3.65 so it gets buzzy on the freeway but it is a street light champion.

The problems will be a few. Swapping in a v8 is a big job.

For the SBC you need a conversion plate for the engine to mount to the tranny.

That is just the start

I have a carb'd Caddy 4.9. it is about 215 hp when I put high octane in it and advance the timing a couple degrees. Normally I run 87 Octane and de-tune it a bit to prevent knock. It still dyno's at 213 hp with that. At that hp the car is plenty fast. The axels are just fine and the Spec II+ clutch works well.

If you want more power though, the formula changes quite a bit. If you go to the 300 hp neighbourhood you an get breakage. I have a friend who had 500 hp in his and it was scary fast with a Caddy automatic tranny in it. He sold it.

For a swap, the 4.9 is easier, but the SBC gives a bit more power depending on how you equip it.

You have a big job and it is going to take time and money. Good luck with it.
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Report this Post04-30-2015 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DizzixxClick Here to Email DizzixxSend a Private Message to DizzixxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

The 4 speed from the 85/86 is the strongest. It is a 3.65 so it gets buzzy on the freeway but it is a street light champion.

The problems will be a few. Swapping in a v8 is a big job.

For the SBC you need a conversion plate for the engine to mount to the tranny.

That is just the start

I have a carb'd Caddy 4.9. it is about 215 hp when I put high octane in it and advance the timing a couple degrees. Normally I run 87 Octane and de-tune it a bit to prevent knock. It still dyno's at 213 hp with that. At that hp the car is plenty fast. The axels are just fine and the Spec II+ clutch works well.

If you want more power though, the formula changes quite a bit. If you go to the 300 hp neighbourhood you an get breakage. I have a friend who had 500 hp in his and it was scary fast with a Caddy automatic tranny in it. He sold it.

For a swap, the 4.9 is easier, but the SBC gives a bit more power depending on how you equip it.

You have a big job and it is going to take time and money. Good luck with it.


I am going to second the 4.9 recommend. Its supposed to be one of the easiest swaps for someone doing everything themselves, and believe me it can still take a while to get it right, ask me how I know.... Also it is supposed to be the cheapest (when I tallied what I had spent my eyes still did this )

While you can skimp on making other upgrades, be 100% honest with yourself and realize you are going to want to upgrade/replace a bunch of things for show or performance, and then there is the giant can of worms that is all those unforeseen expenses after you are committed to the project. Any swap is probably going to run at least 5k when your done. There are experienced guys that can do it for less but believe me it can easily cost more than this so be sure you have planned your expenses, both in terms of energy and money before you run off half cocked.

To help you in this endeavor I recommend this link to the Rodney Dickman 5spd Getrag information page. It should give you some basic insight into the Getrag as well as where you can find other non-Fiero versions and what you need to do to make a swap
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Report this Post04-30-2015 04:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Koert:

Okay, so I can keep pretty much everything stock and go like 130 miles an hour without anything breaking down?

Also stock transmission or should I really swap that too?
If I have to swap my transmission too I would like to get a 6 speed, but that is probably very expensive is it?
What transmission would you guys recommend?


You've been getting a lot of good advice. I'll add mine.

You won't be doing 130 mph in a Fiero unless it is on the way to jail, and even then it will probably scare you more than it will the people you pass (and your headlights will rise up and tell everyone you are doing stupid illegal speeds).

Torque is indeed the factor with transmissions. My Fiero was fine for many years with ~300 BHP from a turbo 3.2 engine.

The pre-88 chassis is not the best choice - it sucks, frankly, and I say that having owned both 88 and 87 at the same time.

You will spend double + what you think it will cost and you may never finish when you run out of money and/or enthusiasm.

Best advice is to buy a car someone else has done a good job on converting. I guarantee you'll pay way less than he put into it.

The ventilated brakes on the 88 are significantly better than the solid rotors on the earlier cars, but with the right pad material in a non-competition situation they will do the job at any legal speed.
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Report this Post04-30-2015 07:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
this is a heck of a deal you wont ever be able to do it this cheap http://minneapolis.craigsli.../cto/4997449832.html
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Report this Post04-30-2015 08:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DizzixxClick Here to Email DizzixxSend a Private Message to DizzixxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

this is a heck of a deal you wont ever be able to do it this cheap http://minneapolis.craigsli.../cto/4997449832.html


While I disagree Bills and think that taking on someone's project is a 50/50 proposition if the above car actually has even just half the listed parts/work it is a steal. Totally awesome

[This message has been edited by Dizzixx (edited 04-30-2015).]

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Report this Post04-30-2015 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for engine manClick Here to Email engine manSend a Private Message to engine manEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes you are right he should go drop a few grand on a Archie kit then go buy a car and go get a engine and start figuring it out since he hasn't the skill set yet
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Report this Post04-30-2015 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by engine man:

this is a heck of a deal you wont ever be able to do it this cheap http://minneapolis.craigsli.../cto/4997449832.html


Hmm looks awesome, just way to far away
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Report this Post04-30-2015 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Koert

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quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

The 4 speed from the 85/86 is the strongest. It is a 3.65 so it gets buzzy on the freeway but it is a street light champion.

The problems will be a few. Swapping in a v8 is a big job.

For the SBC you need a conversion plate for the engine to mount to the tranny.

That is just the start

I have a carb'd Caddy 4.9. it is about 215 hp when I put high octane in it and advance the timing a couple degrees. Normally I run 87 Octane and de-tune it a bit to prevent knock. It still dyno's at 213 hp with that. At that hp the car is plenty fast. The axels are just fine and the Spec II+ clutch works well.

If you want more power though, the formula changes quite a bit. If you go to the 300 hp neighbourhood you an get breakage. I have a friend who had 500 hp in his and it was scary fast with a Caddy automatic tranny in it. He sold it.

For a swap, the 4.9 is easier, but the SBC gives a bit more power depending on how you equip it.

You have a big job and it is going to take time and money. Good luck with it.


You think the stock 4 speed can handle the torque from a 4.9?

Yesterday I figured out I should get a F40 transmission, because it is supposed to handle the torque way better.

Thanks for the reply!
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Report this Post04-30-2015 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Koert

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quote
Originally posted by BillS:


You've been getting a lot of good advice. I'll add mine.

You won't be doing 130 mph in a Fiero unless it is on the way to jail, and even then it will probably scare you more than it will the people you pass (and your headlights will rise up and tell everyone you are doing stupid illegal speeds).

Torque is indeed the factor with transmissions. My Fiero was fine for many years with ~300 BHP from a turbo 3.2 engine.

The pre-88 chassis is not the best choice - it sucks, frankly, and I say that having owned both 88 and 87 at the same time.

You will spend double + what you think it will cost and you may never finish when you run out of money and/or enthusiasm.

Best advice is to buy a car someone else has done a good job on converting. I guarantee you'll pay way less than he put into it.

The ventilated brakes on the 88 are significantly better than the solid rotors on the earlier cars, but with the right pad material in a non-competition situation they will do the job at any legal speed.


I am actually looking to sell my 84 Fiero and buy a 88 because of the better suspension. But I doubt that I can find a 88 Fiero in the same shape as mine for the same price.
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Report this Post05-01-2015 09:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DizzixxClick Here to Email DizzixxSend a Private Message to DizzixxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Converting partially or fully from 84-87 suspension to 88 suspension is easier than an engine swap and I have heard some people argue that a mixed 84-87/88 suspension system is best. Something to consider. Though if you have other reasons for wanting to move away from an 84, like wanting something that was originally a v6 or a fastback then it would make sense.

I dont know what you got your 84' for but I see there are a number of options near you if you are really set on trading for an 88'

88 v6 Grey Automatic in McDonough $2900
88 4cyl Notchie 5spd in Covington -- Very clean on the outside but dead motor $1300-1800 depending on if you want the aftermark rims. This is a pretty good deal.
88 4cyl Automatic in Lagrange $1900

Man makes me wish I was in Georgia
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Neils88
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Report this Post05-01-2015 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dizzixx:

88 4cyl Notchie 5spd in Covington -- Very clean on the outside but dead motor $1300-1800 depending on if you want the aftermark rims. This is a pretty good deal.


I think that is a terrible deal for what you get (even at $1300). I bought my 88 notchie for $900 (Cdn)...(around $700 USD). All it needed was a new fuel pump. No rust on it. Mint interior. There are better deals out there, just have to be patient.
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Report this Post05-01-2015 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlammedClick Here to Email SlammedSend a Private Message to SlammedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The '88 rear is better, yes. But, with solid cradle bushings, a rear sway bar and refreshed everything on your 84, it's very close IMO. Driving around on the road push the car fairly hard, the difference isn't big enough to sell your car.

Just be on the lookout for an 88 at the wreckers, or someone may be selling their cradle and suspension. They pop up. I am one of those who prefers the pre-'88 frontend with '88 rear. I used to auto cross an '87 4.5l many years ago. Went from a new rear '87 to '88 and while it was tighter and the slight bumpsteer was eliminated, it didn't drastically affect my times.

F40 is silly. F23 is much easier and cheaper

[This message has been edited by Slammed (edited 05-01-2015).]

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Dizzixx
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Report this Post05-01-2015 04:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DizzixxClick Here to Email DizzixxSend a Private Message to DizzixxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I agree that they can be had for less. I got a working 87 v6 GT Auto for $700 and an 85 GT v6 5spd parts car for $500, but if you're jones'n to get in the game you pay market price, in his market this is the best deal in my opinion, and given my interpretation of his wants. This all also does not take into account that it is not a working car meaning he can most likely talk the guy down at least 25% if not more depending on how long he has been trying to sell it.

Just my 0.02
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Will
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Report this Post05-01-2015 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:

The '88 rear is better, yes. But, with solid cradle bushings, a rear sway bar and refreshed everything on your 84, it's very close IMO. Driving around on the road push the car fairly hard, the difference isn't big enough to sell your car.

F40 is silly. F23 is much easier and cheaper



Basically the only advantage that the early rear has over the '88 is the ability to swap in knuckles from other cars with larger wheel bearings and outer CV's. This matters if you want a lot of power, but incurs an unsprung weight penalty.

I've popped Fiero inner CV joints. The F40, with larger stronger stub shafts and CV joints, doesn't seem silly to me at all, although the F40 also incurs a weight penalty.
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Dizzixx
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Report this Post05-01-2015 10:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DizzixxClick Here to Email DizzixxSend a Private Message to DizzixxEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Will:


Basically the only advantage that the early rear has over the '88 is the ability to swap in knuckles from other cars with larger wheel bearings and outer CV's. This matters if you want a lot of power, but incurs an unsprung weight penalty.

I've popped Fiero inner CV joints. The F40, with larger stronger stub shafts and CV joints, doesn't seem silly to me at all, although the F40 also incurs a weight penalty.


How big of a weight penalty and how much bigger are the CV joints for the F40?
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Koert
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Report this Post05-01-2015 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KoertSend a Private Message to KoertEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Slammed:

The '88 rear is better, yes. But, with solid cradle bushings, a rear sway bar and refreshed everything on your 84, it's very close IMO. Driving around on the road push the car fairly hard, the difference isn't big enough to sell your car.

Just be on the lookout for an 88 at the wreckers, or someone may be selling their cradle and suspension. They pop up. I am one of those who prefers the pre-'88 frontend with '88 rear. I used to auto cross an '87 4.5l many years ago. Went from a new rear '87 to '88 and while it was tighter and the slight bumpsteer was eliminated, it didn't drastically affect my times.

F40 is silly. F23 is much easier and cheaper



Okay thanks man, the F23 is indeed easier and cheaper, but it can handle up to 170 lbf ft of torque. A small block has much more than that. The F40 can handle up to 300. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post05-02-2015 09:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I purchased my first Fiero in 1997, I was led to believe that putting a high power engine in a Fiero would bend the frame. At that time the V8 was the most popular V8 swap and it led to many debates on the old Fiero List. V8 Archie always insisted that this was not the case and he proved to be correct.
Fast forward a few years and guys with Fieros were now doing some incredible things. We now had Fieros doing the 1/4 mile in the 12's, 11's and 10's. The Fiero was able to handle the power with no ill effects and the newer autos emerged as the most durable transmissions.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post05-02-2015 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 05-02-2015).]

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Report this Post05-02-2015 10:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Justinbart

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Member since Sep 2009
 
quote
Originally posted by Koert:


Okay thanks man, the F23 is indeed easier and cheaper, but it can handle up to 800 lbf ft of torque. A small block has none of that. The F40 can handle up to 300 one time. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.


corrected

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

[This message has been edited by Justinbart (edited 05-02-2015).]

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dratts
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Report this Post05-02-2015 01:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for drattsClick Here to Email drattsSend a Private Message to drattsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
No kidding? An F23 can handle 800 lbs. of torque?
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Gall757
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Report this Post05-02-2015 03:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dratts:

No kidding? An F23 can handle 800 lbs. of torque?


Yes...kidding. But what GM says a transmission can do is not what the transmission can really do. They have lawyers, you know.
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Will
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Report this Post05-02-2015 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dizzixx:

How big of a weight penalty and how much bigger are the CV joints for the F40?


The Getrag is about 85# without flywheel or clutch. The Getrag flywheel clutch combo comes in pretty much at 30#.

I'm not sure what the F40 weighs by itself. I'd guess 115#, but that's a guess. The factory flywheel for the F40 is about 30# by itself, so the flywheel clutch assembly is probably about 45#. However, intelligent installation of a Tilton dual disk should be able to knock the assembly weight down to less than 20#

Also, the knuckles from a Pontiac 6000 with JA2 brake option and 115mm bolt circle add 13# of unsprung weight per side. The rotor is ~10.5 x 1 vented and the caliper is a large iron single piston floater. The majority of the weight gain comes from the caliper.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 05-02-2015).]

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Will
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Report this Post05-02-2015 06:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Will

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quote
Originally posted by dratts:

No kidding? An F23 can handle 800 lbs. of torque?


It's pretty tough. Justin has found a few failure modes though.

The F23 is certainly much stronger than the stock inner CV joints. Justin with his F23 and I with my 282 have both wrung off the splined shaft where it goes into the side gears of the diff.
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