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No gas, why? by kevin
Started on: 04-16-2015 01:34 PM
Replies: 29 (444 views)
Last post by: jaskispyder on 05-06-2015 03:11 PM
kevin
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Report this Post04-16-2015 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fellas,
While messing (fixing?) my HVAC controll unit on my '85 SE Duke, I idiotically forgot to disconnect my battery. 😡 The result is my engine is not getting gas! If I simply remove and replace my sending unit, will that fix my problem? Or, if I do that job, is there any other thing I need to do, replace or fix, that I need do? Thank you for your help😀
Cordially,
Kevin Sullivan

P.s All the fuses are good.
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Scott2scott
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Report this Post04-16-2015 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott2scottSend a Private Message to Scott2scottEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
what about the relay?
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tom10122
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Report this Post04-16-2015 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tom10122Send a Private Message to tom10122Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can you hear the pump kick on? I'm assuming not.
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kevin
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Report this Post04-16-2015 02:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you guys😊
When I put my key in the ignition and turn the key to the "on" position, I do not hear a small whirl or small noise indicating the pump is primed. Therefore, I must have shorted something. All my fuses are good. Where else can I look to solve my problem?

Cordially,
Kevin Sullivan
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kevin
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Report this Post04-16-2015 02:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

kevin

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Member since Jan 2000
Scott2scott,
Good idea, where is the relay you are referring too?
Cordially,
Kevin Sullivan
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Scott2scott
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Report this Post04-16-2015 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott2scottSend a Private Message to Scott2scottEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
fuel pump relay on back firewall near the left deck lid hinge. I belive.
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kevin
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Report this Post04-23-2015 11:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fellas,
I, and a friend, by-passed the relays. We jumped the power directly to the battery. We then listened for the pump to pump gas. Nothing 😣
Do I now replace the fuel pump? Let me know.
Cordially,
kevin


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jaskispyder
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Report this Post04-23-2015 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
did you apply 12v to fuel pump terminal in ALDL?

I would check wiring, and if that looks good, pull the tank.
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Vogtoauto
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Report this Post04-23-2015 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VogtoautoSend a Private Message to VogtoautoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you jump directly to the three-wire connector in the center of the firewall? I believe the power is a brown wire with black stripe, the ground is black and the fuel level sender is in the middle, don't remember that color. Don't put twelve volts to the sending unit, you'll burn it out!
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kevin
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Report this Post04-23-2015 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
jaskispyder,
Thank you for your reply.
Damn, I wish I would not have to do this, but for the love of the FIero, I guess I have too. All this trouble is because I forgot to disconnect the battery while working on the HVAC system!!!! I did not realize a large amp "short" within the HVAC wiring would "putz-out" the fuel pump, but I guess it will.
Cordially,
kevin
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post04-24-2015 03:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It is unlikely you burned out the fuel pump in fixing the other problem.

How did you jump the power to the fuel pump to test?

Does the check engine light come on key on engine off? It should. If it doesn't look for a non-running ECM. Most likely cause of that is an unplugged ECM reset connector. Left unplugged it will cause the ECM not to run and thus you will not hear the fuel pump run during priming.

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kevin
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Report this Post04-24-2015 01:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
phonedawgz,

Thank you immensely!

Question: The picture that you sent me, I am unsure where that pictukre is on the Fiero? If I go to my Fiero now, what part of the car do I look at to see your detailed outline? Second, Is there a YouTube video I can learn from? Perhaps you have one to offer? Please let me know. Again, me and my Fiero thank you.

Cordially,
kevin
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Gall757
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Report this Post04-24-2015 01:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The battery is just off to the left of that photo.
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kevin
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Report this Post04-24-2015 02:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Gal757....

Cordially,
kevin
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kevin
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Report this Post04-27-2015 11:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
phonedawgz,

I thank you for sending me that picture. All I know what to do is to check the ECM reset connector. I disconnected it, then re-copnnected it after double checking there wasn't a spider living in there. What do I do now? All I see is the wires, but I don't know how to diognose the problem? It was mentioned that the pump was probably not shorted out. Any videos?

Help me?

Thank you,
kevin

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 04-27-2015).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post04-27-2015 02:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Key on....engine off. You should hear a pump motor noise for 2 seconds coming from under the arm rest. Check engine light should be on. If not...post for the next step.
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kevin
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Report this Post04-28-2015 03:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Gall757,
OK, I anxiously await your next suggestion. I did not hear a sound from under the armrest as I turned the engine to the 'on' position. Patiently waiting.......

Cordially,
kevin
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Report this Post04-28-2015 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If the SES light lights up when you turn the key on, the next thing to check is the relay that runs the fuel pump.

//www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/120729.html
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kevin
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Report this Post04-29-2015 02:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fellas,

All others chime in if you knoew this answer.
(Q.) I'm about to swap the two relays (the two that sits on the firewall behind the driver) . If I simply swap the two wiring relay looms ( A goes to B, and B goes to A) . Can I then simply turn the key 'ON' and get the fuel pump to pump gas? I do not want to ruin anything else!! I would then know that the relay (for the fuel pump) is bad. Can anyone assist me? Gall757 thought I could so this. Thanks Gall 757

Cordially,
kevin
PS I have a 85 Duke

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 04-29-2015).]

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jaskispyder
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Report this Post04-29-2015 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The relays on the firewall behind the driver are interchangeable.


Have you tried applying 12v to the fuel pump ALDL connection? If you don't get the fuel pump to turn on doing this, then it is a wiring or fuel pump issue. I use 12V from the cig. lighter. I would do this first, before swapping relays, etc... otherwise you may be wasting your time checking everything else.

(double check the orientation vs the pic below, as it may be upside-down.



http://www.fierostore.com/Tech/Default.aspx?Id=347

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 04-29-2015).]

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kevin
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Report this Post04-30-2015 05:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fellas,
I hate bring stupid👺 I placed my 'hot' probe on the G slot on my ALDL. [this is the probe that looks like a screwdriver, that has a pointy probe and an alligator clip, it lights up when the probe finds a 'hot' lead.] Anyway, when I placed this probe on this part of the ALDL, it does not light up! Why? The probe does work 'cuz I tested this phone on my new battery.
It is possible I could have shorted out something at/in the ECM? In other words, why should I place a 'hot' source to this port, to activate the fuel pump, when it does not light up? I never learned electricity.
Cordially,
Kevin
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Report this Post04-30-2015 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Kevin.....your reading is correct. It is not 'hot'. You are supposed to provide 12 v to that pin to run the pump.
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kevin
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Report this Post04-30-2015 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Gall757😊,
How am I supposed to get 12v plugged into the 'G' port? Do I have to purchase as special tool? Then, after the pump comes on (hopefully😬) can I then simply turn the ignition key on? If that happens, what particular part do you think I need to purchase? In other words, what went bad❓
Cordially,
kevin
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Gall757
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Report this Post04-30-2015 06:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What's on the other end of your 'probe'?.....if that will plug into the G slot....probe the cigar lighter for 12 volts and bingo.....
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post05-01-2015 07:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Take the cig lighter off, unplug the center wire, leave the black wire, you don't need it. The wire that goes to the center (maybe orange in color) should have 12v. Test this, get a multimeter and set it on DC voltage (yes, a probe light will work, but it would be nice to know the voltage also).

Remove probe, take a short piece of wire, stick it into the end of the orange connector and then stick that other end of that short wire into the fuel pump port on the ALDL. If done correctly, the fuel pump will kick in. If it doesn't, you don't have a good connection, or your fuel pump (or wire going to the pump) is bad.


For a short piece of wire, I have used a paper clip, just jamb it into the orange wire connector and use that to probe the aldl fuel pump port. Don't touch anything else with that wire, or you will blow a cig. lighter fuse, or worse.
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kevin
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Report this Post05-05-2015 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank you jaskispyder!!!

I followed your succinct information. I did not hear anything after I plugged the hot cigarellte (Orange) into the 'G' ALDL. I got nothing but crickets😒 So I suppose I gotta Drop the tank and R&R the fuel pump. I'm going to ask again,'cuz I learn slow. Can I double check the relays, one last time? Can I swap relay 'A' over to relay 'B' and 'B' over to 'A' [visa versa]❓I want to double check that method with you before I get the jack stands out.
Much appreciation,
Kevin

[This message has been edited by kevin (edited 05-05-2015).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post05-05-2015 09:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Both relays are the same...check for corrosion on the pins and socket.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post05-06-2015 07:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


This shows you the wiring... and I have to say that if the fuel pump didn't kick on with the ALDL supplied 12v, then the pump is bad, or the wiring (tan/white or ground) is bad. Either way, I would be looking at the wires. Maybe someone put in a fuel pump cutoff switch, so you need to trace the wiring from the ALDL to the pump and look for things that are just not factory.

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kevin
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Report this Post05-06-2015 02:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kevinSend a Private Message to kevinEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks again jaskispyder👍🏼
My 85 Duke is a perfectly stock car. No external modifications whatsoever. All my relays are clean. Hell, even my battery box is pristine! My last question: I did not switch the relays yet, 'A' to 'B' then 'B' to 'A' at the back do the fire wall. This is my last step before dropping the tank. Can I safely do this? Are you sure I won't damage anything else? Let me me know as soon as you can.
Cordially,
Kevin
Ps. Anybody else have an idea.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post05-06-2015 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kevin:

Thanks again jaskispyder👍🏼
My 85 Duke is a perfectly stock car. No external modifications whatsoever. All my relays are clean. Hell, even my battery box is pristine! My last question: I did not switch the relays yet, 'A' to 'B' then 'B' to 'A' at the back do the fire wall. This is my last step before dropping the tank. Can I safely do this? Are you sure I won't damage anything else? Let me me know as soon as you can.
Cordially,
Kevin
Ps. Anybody else have an idea.


The relays are the same... no harm will come swapping them. Sometimes they are a pain to get to. I had one stick open on me and it took longer for the car to start, but tapping on the relay fixed that. Again, if you are not getting the fuel pump to turn on via the ALDL, the relays are not going to solve anything as the ALDL has a direct connection to the fuel pump and is not controlled by those relays.

On the plus side, it really isn't that bad to drop the tank. The hose connections are the worse, but the rest is easy.

Check the wiring in the engine compartment, the ones from the tank to see if the connector is disconnected, or melted. I believe it is a three wire connection... you will see a wire harness coming from the tank... follow it.

The tan/white wire in this harness.... apply 12v to it. I can't remember if the harness has a ground (it looks like it should and it will be a black wire... .ground this and apply 12v to the tan/white wire), or if the tank is the ground, so maybe someone else can chime in. This is as close as you can get to the pump without dropping the tank. If applying the 12v here doesn't do anything, drop the tank.

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 05-06-2015).]

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