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Paint inputs by Dylpro
Started on: 04-14-2015 11:40 AM
Replies: 23 (471 views)
Last post by: rogergarrison on 04-24-2015 06:18 PM
Dylpro
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Report this Post04-14-2015 11:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So posted a few days ago as I've now joined the club of Fiero owners and I've recently gotten a very reasonable quote on a paint job for my car as it is not factory paint and it's chipping very badly. I was hoping for an input on my colour choice before going. I'm aware that once a car has been painted from its factory it loses value. In that aspect, is it worth restoring it to the original colour (white) or would doing so not make much a difference. That currently is what the deciding factor is for which colour I get. Thank you for the input!

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Report this Post04-14-2015 12:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

I'm aware that once a car has been painted from its factory it loses value. In that aspect, is it worth restoring it to the original colour (white) or would doing so not make much a difference.


I suppose it depends on what you're seeking to accomplish. A bone-stock restoration? If so, yes, you'd probably want to paint it the same color shown on the RPO label. OR one of the other stock Fieros colors.

Or you could paint it a custom color. Its been repainted once already, so any "value" in having the original paint is already gone. Not that it matters much for Fieros anyway; a good repaint is almost always preferable to a faded, peeling, cracked original. Its not like having a 1953 Corvette where having the original paint might add thousands to its value. If you're going to do custom work like an engine swap, custom wheels, etc might as well pick a color you like as well and go for it.

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fierosound
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Report this Post04-14-2015 12:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

I'm aware that once a car has been painted from its factory it loses value.


Depends. A Fiero is not a collectible in the sense that "original paint" means anything to anyone but us (even that's a maybe).

I had a neighbor who had that same idea that "original" meant everything.
His old 60's Bonneville was never driven, sat on the street year-round through summer rain and winter snow.
Yet, he wanted to park (store it really) on my side of the street in the shade of the trees.
Ironically, most the paint had been sunburned off years ago.
But he figured it was worth its weight in gold because "it's original". LOL

Some people here think I've "ruined" my Indy because it's not factory original - paint or powertrain.
But it's been appraised and insured and it's near the same value as the #3 Indy Pace Car sold for.


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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-14-2015).]

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Dylpro
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Report this Post04-14-2015 01:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DylproClick Here to Email DylproSend a Private Message to DylproEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
In that case she may be sporting a nice new black paint job! Thanks for the input guys!
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Report this Post04-14-2015 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dylpro:

In that case she may be sporting a nice new black paint job! Thanks for the input guys!


I'm a fan of black

Be warned it is the color that takes the most work to keep looking nice
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lorennerol
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Report this Post04-14-2015 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lorennerolSend a Private Message to lorennerolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, get it done the color you want and enjoy it. Fieros are about fun, not investment.

FYI, my car is in for paint right now. These are oddball cars with 3-4 different types of plastic body panels that have to be treated specially and differently in terms of repair and paint. You'll avoid headaches later if you do some reading now and review with the shop BEFORE they start. In particular, but not exclusively, the nose/front facia is a very soft material that tends to spiderweb new paint, and the hood, roof, and deck lid are SMC that tends to blister, especially in damp conditions. Those blisters and any other damage have to be repaired properly and with SMC-compatible materials or they will just re-blister.
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Report this Post04-17-2015 07:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So when getting a Fiero painted, is there something I should ask the body shop when getting an estimate? I plan on having my car re painted this spring/summer and I don't know what I should ask the body shop when getting estimates. Do I go in there and tell them what each piece of the body is made out of?

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Report this Post04-17-2015 12:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierosoundClick Here to visit fierosound's HomePageClick Here to Email fierosoundSend a Private Message to fierosoundEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can print and give the Shop the appropriate pages (1-6 to 1-11)
from this www.calgaryfieros.com/DOWNLOADS/BodyManual.pdf

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[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-17-2015).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-17-2015 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any reputable shop will know anything they need to about painting it. I dont do anything any different on a Fiero as far as just the paint than I do on any other car. Urathane basecoat/ clearcoat is flexible enough on its own that you dont need any of the other additives they want to charge you for. Prep is the key to everything. Every spot and crack must be sanded. Body panel repairs are a little different. Ive painted vehicles professionally for 45 years in my own business. Everything from motorcycles to passenger planes.
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Report this Post04-17-2015 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

Any reputable shop will know anything they need to about painting it. I dont do anything any different on a Fiero as far as just the paint than I do on any other car. Urathane basecoat/ clearcoat is flexible enough on its own that you dont need any of the other additives they want to charge you for. Prep is the key to everything. Every spot and crack must be sanded. Body panel repairs are a little different. Ive painted vehicles professionally for 45 years in my own business. Everything from motorcycles to passenger planes.



Yeah man, my only reason for concern was because my car has a lot of paint chipping, I was not sure if it is because the previous owner did a crappy job painting it, or if the shop didn't put flex agent or whatever it's called into the paint. It's really a shame, my whole car looks brand new right now except for the paint peeling off in chunks in random places along the body, especially the bumper! Haha

Thanks by the way FieroSound, I appreciate the link to the body manual... Also, I love your work... You are an inspiration to what I want to have done on my car!

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-18-2015 11:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Peeling was due to cheap paint or poor prep. You dont need a flex agent. That was invented for RUBBER and soft bumpers back in the day. You also dont need adhesion promoter if you sand it correctly. Thats just a cheap mans way out of sanding. I never use either in customer or my own cars and never have had a return for peeling paint. Some still use flex on soft urathane bumpers, but its only good enough to last long enough to mount them. It evaporates out within a month or so. Paint may crack if your in an accident...but your going to have to repaint it anyway in that case soooo.....
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Report this Post04-18-2015 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Shho13Click Here to Email Shho13Send a Private Message to Shho13Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks for the advice Rogergarrison! Ill just have to make sure the body shop does a good job... I have no experience or patience for body work! lol

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jimmo
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Report this Post04-18-2015 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimmoClick Here to Email jimmoSend a Private Message to jimmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just do yourself a HUGE favor. Whatever paint line you choose to go with...read the data sheets the manufacturer provides online with your own eyes. Ive been burned before listening to someone at the paint store who told me flex additive was not needed. It was ppg's deltron BC/CC system. The second time around the flex additive made a world of difference. I always use it on soft plastics with ppg. Its way too much work to paint a car twice because ya wanted to save 50 bucks on flex. Again, just check the data sheets as some paint lines are flexible and dont require it but some do.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-20-2015 10:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I use Sherwin Williams and RM/BASF paints almost exclusively. I never use flex and havent since the 1960s. Maybe they are more flexible than others, I can bend a bumper in half without it cracking. I had a guy back up over the nose of one of mine and 1/3 way over the hood. I sanded the surface scratches out and buffed it. Absolutely no damage at all. If its prepped right and you dont put on 10 coats of paint and primer its fine. Maybe PPG stuff needs it...I dont know...you cant give me PPG products. In any case, flex evaporates out anyway just like thinner and reducer. Thats my own experience for years of painting thousands of vehicles, so you can take it or leave it. It also never worked on what it was designed for... the original Duraflex/ Endura bumpers on 69 GTOs. You will not find an original one that is not cracked all over thats ever been driven.

In the end, this is the way I do it and others may not have same results. I have nothing to gain either way, it makes no difference to me if someone wants to spray their whole car with adhesion promoter and flex agent. Ya, I know some dealerships that only spray adhesion promoter and NEVER sand anything at all. ..then I have to fix them. It works fine for me my way, but it wont hurt anything to use everything they want except your wallet. By all means if it makes you feel safer telling them to use all that stuff, its your money. Im just as happy either way. You wont know which works best till you crash it and have to paint it anyway.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-20-2015).]

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jimmo
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Report this Post04-20-2015 08:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimmoClick Here to Email jimmoSend a Private Message to jimmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Roger, Im not trying to make someone waste their money, I would just hate to see someones paint flake off after all that work. Also, PPG does have paint lines that don't require the added flex it just so happens the last car I did was with a single stage DCC line which did require it.
Anyway, with that said, I was looking into the BASF lines on their website. I wanna paint my 86 GT soon and Im always up for trying new products if its in my budget but I couldnt seem to access any real info on the BASF site. Are their data sheets available online?
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-22-2015 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
R&M and BASF combined a while back, so it may be listed as RM/BASF. I use their Diamont line, or SW Dimension 4...both are basecoats. I use Finish 1 clearcoat on both. Again, PREP is the key...dont leave a single spot unsanded or shiney. Bumpers especially have little nooks and crannies, creases that are hard to get to...but use sandpaper or scotchbrites and get into it good. A lot I see peeling, I can tell they just breezed over the part with sandpaper and never got into all the little tight places...and thats where it starts peeling.

check this http://www.rmpaint.com/prod...heets-passenger-cars

http://www.refinish.basf.us/

Easiest answer is if he lets a shop do it, let them do it however they want...and provide a written guarantee. If it peels, make them honor their guarantee. I guarantee my work forever to the original owner except for rust repairs, or subsequent damage. Ive only had one return ever, and it was for a huge rust hole around a gas filler that I wouldnt guarantee ordinarily out the driveway. I did redo the panel for the customer for free because it showed again within a short time and it just felt right to redo it again. It has come back 1 1/2 years later and told him it needs a new quarter panel to be permanent.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-22-2015).]

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Report this Post04-22-2015 07:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimmoClick Here to Email jimmoSend a Private Message to jimmoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yea, that first link is what I needed. I was on the basf site, (your 2nd link) couldnt find much on there but I found what I was looking for on your first link. Thanks for that! No problem with prep-work and cleanliness here with my OCD, trust me on that. I have a nice lil shop.
I agree, if a shop does his work, hopefully a reputable shop that will honor a warranty, he shouldnt have any problems.
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Report this Post04-22-2015 10:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, what's a good price for a good quality paint job (on a fastback) in white with the shop doing everything (all prep, etc)? It'll be a couple years before I get around to paint but I like to plan ahead.
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Report this Post04-23-2015 10:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Monkeyman:

So, what's a good price for a good quality paint job (on a fastback) in white with the shop doing everything (all prep, etc)? It'll be a couple years before I get around to paint but I like to plan ahead.


Panels on or off?

But either way from place to place can vary by thousands.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-23-2015 01:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If my customer wants panel off job and he takes them off, its automaticly double the price. Takes up all of my shop, takes double the materials, and doubles my time...If I take them off, i charge additional at my hourly rate and the actual time to R&R them. For example only : assembled paint job sanded and buffed $2000, apart with customer doing it $4000, with my R&R assembly time add another $1000-2000.

**Note. DO NOT even try to buff panels off the car. You will send them flying across the room. You MIGHT get away with it on a hood and trunk lid.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 04-23-2015).]

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Report this Post04-23-2015 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

If my customer wants panel off job and he takes them off, its automaticly double the price. Takes up all of my shop, takes double the materials, and doubles my time...If I take them off, i charge additional at my hourly rate and the actual time to R&R them. For example only : assembled paint job sanded and buffed $2000, apart with customer doing it $4000, with my R&R assembly time add another $1000-2000.

**Note. DO NOT even try to buff panels off the car. You will send them flying across the room. You MIGHT get away with it on a hood and trunk lid.



Which would you recommend (ignoring the price difference)? Is there any advantage to doing the painting with the panels off?
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Report this Post04-23-2015 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MonkeymanSend a Private Message to MonkeymanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are any colors more (or less) expensive? Someone once told me that reds were the most expensive and white was the cheapest but I could have that backwards (or just totally incorrect).
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Report this Post04-23-2015 10:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TXGOODClick Here to visit TXGOOD's HomePageSend a Private Message to TXGOODEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just bought some Valspar Red and they told me Red was one of the most expensive colors.
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rogergarrison
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Report this Post04-24-2015 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anything with red or yellow in the mix is more expensive. Pearles are more expensive. Solids like black or white are the cheapest. Those are the general rules, but there are exceptions to any of them. Candy colors are the very highest, and also must follow a good ground color...usually white, silver or gold. Candys are NOT recommended for anyone other that professionals. Going by the general rules, a dark red/maroon pearle would usually be the high dollar normal color. The pricing usually depends on what tint base are needed for the specific color.
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