Pennock's Fiero Forum
  Technical Discussion & Questions
  question about front shocks

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version


next newest topic | next oldest topic
question about front shocks by Macarchie
Started on: 04-12-2015 08:52 PM
Replies: 6 (264 views)
Last post by: theogre on 04-13-2015 12:54 AM
Macarchie
Member
Posts: 144
From: Fredericksburg, VA
Registered: Sep 2012


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2015 08:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MacarchieClick Here to Email MacarchieSend a Private Message to MacarchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The other day, I removed the front suspension to install new bushings and ball joints. After removing the steering linkage and sway bar connecting rods, I removed the shock absorber bolts. When I removed the last shock bolt, the entire wheel assembly "fell" about an inch. Does the shock absorber determine the downward travel limit of the suspension? When I tried to put the shock back on, I loaded the spring by raising the hub with a jack. The jack started lifting the car before the spring compressed much… I was not able to compress the spring enough to align the shock bolts. Should the normal empty weight of the car, compress the spring enough to keep the shock from maximum extension?

Is there a different shock that will fit these cars and have a longer range of motion?

Any info or additional insight would be appreciated.

- Jimmy

------------------
1987 Fiero coupe; Blue; 2.5L; 5-spd
1987 Firebird Formula; Blue; 5L; 5-spd

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
Patrick
Member
Posts: 30729
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 443
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2015 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Macarchie:

When I tried to put the shock back on, I loaded the spring by raising the hub with a jack. The jack started lifting the car before the spring compressed much… I was not able to compress the spring enough to align the shock bolts.


I've never had this issue with an '84 or '86... or '88.

Had you replaced the control arm bushings when you were trying to put the shocks back in? If so, had you tightened the control arm mounting bolts with weight on the suspension, or were the control arms hanging down when you tightened the bolts?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-12-2015).]

IP: Logged
Macarchie
Member
Posts: 144
From: Fredericksburg, VA
Registered: Sep 2012


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2015 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MacarchieClick Here to Email MacarchieSend a Private Message to MacarchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have replaced the bushings and put the bolts back in, but haven't torqued them down yet. I will ensure the bolts are not binding and then try to compress the spring again. thanks.

------------------
1987 Fiero coupe; Blue; 2.5L; 5-spd
1987 Firebird Formula; Blue; 5L; 5-spd

IP: Logged
Patrick
Member
Posts: 30729
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 443
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2015 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Macarchie:

I have replaced the bushings and put the bolts back in, but haven't torqued them down yet.


Just make sure before you torque them down that the bolts are loose, and that the car is sitting with its full weight on the wheels.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 04-12-2015).]

IP: Logged
theogre
Member
Posts: 29396
From: USA
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 550
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2015 11:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yes, The shocks does limit LCA travel in down direction. Spring bumper should limits travel up.

Should be easy to get shock bolts in w/ minor jacking on LCA.

If shocks are not gas units or gas has leak out then they are very easy to compress.
Could be have bent shock rod and/or bad piston from hitting pot hole(s). If you lost spring bumper then can damage the shock etc driving on bad roads.
Could be have wrong shocks. I use Gabriel gas units front and back. (Only thing they make now for Fiero.)

 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Just make sure before you torque them down that the bolts are loose, and that the car sitting with its full weight on the wheels.
Nope. Is a Myth.
Moog bushings do not care how you torque the bolts. Moog (and others depending on the application) don't bond the rubber to the shell. Moog and maybe others tells this on their web sites. I leave this up to installers but I have not bothered on any car since 70's.
Why? GM and others WANT them made this way to avoid "wind up problems" at the factory and causing bushing problems then causing warrant claims.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

IP: Logged
Patrick
Member
Posts: 30729
From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Registered: Apr 99


Feedback score: (1)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 443
Rate this member

Report this Post04-12-2015 11:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Nope. Is a Myth.
Moog bushings do not care how you torque the bolts. Moog (and others depending on the application) don't bond the rubber to the shell. Moog and maybe others tells this on their web sites. I leave this up to installers but I have not bothered on any car since 70's.
Why? GM and others WANT them made this way to avoid "wind up problems" at the factory and causing bushing problems then causing warrant claims.


I'm curious then... were the original bushings that were installed at the factory also made in this manner, so that the position of the LCA made no difference when the mounting bolts were tightened?
IP: Logged
theogre
Member
Posts: 29396
From: USA
Registered: Mar 99


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 550
Rate this member

Report this Post04-13-2015 12:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I'm curious then... were the original bushings that were installed at the factory also made in this manner, so that the position of the LCA made no difference when the mounting bolts were tightened?

Yup.
Bushing will self adjust to load after car is built and after.

This myth was maybe true for some cars and/or some bushings many years ago.
Is much easier, cheaper, likely safer too, to make the suspension on the factory floor. Car makers wants as few steps and few tools to make a car to save money. Many suspension bolts use "Lock Nuts" that needs a wrench. GM want full torque every time a wrench is used.

In normal travel on ok roads the bushing will act in Torsion mode and can wind up w/o issues and no wear. (Unlike Polly and others.)
Cover this in my Cave, Bushings
Big Front LCA can take a bit longer to self adjust because bushing rubber is just big.
Front upper and rear CA need to be "floating" inside the shell because if you hit big bumps etc then the small size of rubber will tear fast if they bonded the rubber. Front UCA are very small... Many time just jacking up to change tires will make UCA to float to new position a little then float to normal after.

Edit to add.... I dug thru FSM and said I wrong for OE Upper and Lower CA... Torque bolts w/ car loaded. 87SM 3C-6. Could be OE Bushing is really bonded or maybe other reasons to say this. Moog parts don't care. I would like to find GM factory did same thing as FSM or not. Would need more info how GM made front cross member assembly. Is possible FSM have obsolete data. GM likes Copy/Past as mush as possible and often have old/wrong info. (Like 84-86 rear brakes have "wrong" drawings from another model.)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 04-13-2015).]

IP: Logged

next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery | Ogre's Cave
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock