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4 speed muncie by zzzhuh
Started on: 02-24-2015 04:08 PM
Replies: 20 (1883 views)
Last post by: 85 SE VIN 9 on 03-02-2015 06:08 PM
zzzhuh
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Report this Post02-24-2015 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I recently replaced my Master Cylinder with one of Rodney Dickmans replacements.

Ever since I got the car I've noticed that the shifter seems 'stiff' or 'clunky'. I've read on a few articles that it seems like all of the manuals even when they were new seemed to be a little 'clunky.'

Mine on the other hand stopped grinding when I put it into reverse since I replaced the MC, on the other hand 1st and 2nd gear seem to have issues. First has 2 little notches before it finally goes in and at times, it can be a workout. 2nd is alright but I want it to shift smoother. I think my 3rd synchro needs replaced just from the feel of it.

I've read some things about replacing the shifter cables, does this really make a true difference? I've already put new AC Delco syncromesh in and it did help but not as smooth as I'd like it. Anyone got any recommendations?

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Csjag
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Report this Post02-24-2015 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

I recently replaced my Master Cylinder with one of Rodney Dickmans replacements.

Ever since I got the car I've noticed that the shifter seems 'stiff' or 'clunky'. I've read on a few articles that it seems like all of the manuals even when they were new seemed to be a little 'clunky.'

Mine on the other hand stopped grinding when I put it into reverse since I replaced the MC, on the other hand 1st and 2nd gear seem to have issues. First has 2 little notches before it finally goes in and at times, it can be a workout. 2nd is alright but I want it to shift smoother. I think my 3rd synchro needs replaced just from the feel of it.

I've read some things about replacing the shifter cables, does this really make a true difference? I've already put new AC Delco syncromesh in and it did help but not as smooth as I'd like it. Anyone got any recommendations?



Have you taken the console off and inspected for pennies, dimes and quarters interfering with the cables?
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LornesGT
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Report this Post02-24-2015 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LornesGTSend a Private Message to LornesGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine too, so I am interested to see opinions on this. Some times after it is warmed up I think it's better but then other times not. I have fresh syncromesh (sp) trans fluid. First is the hardest.
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Toontown Fiero
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Report this Post02-24-2015 07:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Toontown FieroSend a Private Message to Toontown FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you tried adjusting the shift cables at the transmission as per the service manual?
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fierofool
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Report this Post02-24-2015 09:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Prior to the failure of my original cables, shifting became difficult for anything other than 3rd and 4th. On a below freezing morning, it couldn't be shifted at all until it had run for a few minutes. Eventually it wouldn't move side to side at all and I replaced the select cable with Rodney's Getrag select. With the input of other forum members, we determined that the cause of the problem was that water had gotten down into the select cable and the metal strands had rusted and started to fray causing some binding inside the sheath. The locked up condition on cold mornings was due to that water being frozen until the heat from the engine and coolant hose melted it.

After posting I saw that yours was a 4 speed. My first 4-speed needed a cable replaced because a previous owner had left the grommet out of the fire wall and that resulted in the firewall cutting a hole in the sheath. I think that resulted in either it rusting or it actually damaged the inner cable.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 02-24-2015).]

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post02-26-2015 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fierofool:
After posting I saw that yours was a 4 speed. My first 4-speed needed a cable replaced because a previous owner had left the grommet out of the fire wall and that resulted in the firewall cutting a hole in the sheath. I think that resulted in either it rusting or it actually damaged the inner cable.



Sorry for such a late reply.

I have checked for any interference and everything is free of loose change. My transmission cables were adjusted when I first got it (about 1 year ago) and it even had a problem before I adjusted it.

As far as replacing them I feel like that is probably my best bet. Is there any recommendations for me to change things or looking for things while I have the cables out?
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fierofool
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Report this Post02-27-2015 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Take Toontown's advice and adjust the cables according to a preferred service manual. A slight mis-adjustmet of the cables can cause a clunky feel, and especially difficulty in shifting to Reverse. Aligning them will allow the transmission levers to move smoothly across the Neutral gate to activate the shift fork shaft for the gates.

If you should then find a need to replace the cables, be sure to get the cable grommets securely installed in the firewall. There is a lot of heat that can come in and it can cook your ECM. Something I didn't know about with my first Fiero.
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woodyhere
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Report this Post02-28-2015 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for woodyhereClick Here to Email woodyhereSend a Private Message to woodyhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just added my second Fiero to the mix. It's a late 84. It has a 4 spd but I'm not sure which one. The trans has a shifter boss cast in the bell housing. The boss and the stamped steel shifter parts were pretty badly warn and made shifting really difficult. I got a door pin bushing set for a Dodge pick up. The steel shifter bracket that has the factory plastic bushings is drilled out to .500 and the bushings pushed in just like the factory on. The door pin is shortened up to the length of the original Fiero pin. It's a little larger dia. than the factory one so it fits nicely in the worn hole in the casting. This takes all the slop out of the engine end of the linkage and makes shifting easy.

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Arns85GT
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Report this Post02-28-2015 11:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
setting up the shifter cables is a little tricky. It is a case of adjust and then try again and again until you hit the sweet spot.
BTW the pivots on the tranny can wear out and drop off. Inspect them carefully

However, there is one thing that is often overlooked. In the case of the 4 speed shifter there is an adjuster just in front of the shift lever.

It takes a 10 mm wrench to loosen it and again it is a case of adjust, then test, over and over until you hit the sweet spot.

Either end can be the problem.

Arn
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post02-28-2015 09:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by woodyhere:

I just added my second Fiero to the mix. It's a late 84. It has a 4 spd but I'm not sure which one.



84's had isuzu transmissions. 85-86 had the 4 speed muncie (late 86's had the option of a 5 speed) and 87-88 had the 5 speed getrag. Isuzu also had a 5 speed transmission I think in 85 but don't quote me on that.

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 02-28-2015).]

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post02-28-2015 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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Member since Jan 2014
 
quote
Originally posted by Arns85GT:

setting up the shifter cables is a little tricky. It is a case of adjust and then try again and again until you hit the sweet spot.
BTW the pivots on the tranny can wear out and drop off. Inspect them carefully

However, there is one thing that is often overlooked. In the case of the 4 speed shifter there is an adjuster just in front of the shift lever.

It takes a 10 mm wrench to loosen it and again it is a case of adjust, then test, over and over until you hit the sweet spot.

Either end can be the problem.

Arn


Thanks for the tip Arn, I'll have to check out the adjuster by the shift lever.
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Scott2scott
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Report this Post02-28-2015 10:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott2scottClick Here to Email Scott2scottSend a Private Message to Scott2scottEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
MD9 3-SPEED AUTO 125THC ONLY AUTO USED
MG2 5-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 3.61 RATIO V6 ONLY
MT2 5-SPEED MANUAL ISUZU 3.35 RATIO L4 ONLY
MY8 4-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 3.32 RATIO 1984 L4 ONLY
M17 4-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 3.65 RATIO V6 ONLY
M19 4-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 4.10 RATIO 1984 L4 ONLY

84 was not an Isuzu, they are Muncie my 84 is 4speed and its a Muncie and my 86gt v6 had a 4speed Muncie I switched the 84 m19 with the 86 m17 build stronger.
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post02-28-2015 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Scott2scott:

MD9 3-SPEED AUTO 125THC ONLY AUTO USED
MG2 5-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 3.61 RATIO V6 ONLY
MT2 5-SPEED MANUAL ISUZU 3.35 RATIO L4 ONLY
MY8 4-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 3.32 RATIO 1984 L4 ONLY
M17 4-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 3.65 RATIO V6 ONLY
M19 4-SPEED MANUAL MUNCIE 4.10 RATIO 1984 L4 ONLY

84 was not an Isuzu, they are Muncie my 84 is 4speed and its a Muncie and my 86gt v6 had a 4speed Muncie I switched the 84 m19 with the 86 m17 build stronger.


You are correct, 84 was the 4 speed, im not sure why I put five speed. Here is the official wiki for each transmission and the ratio.

Manual transmission gear ratios
Year Style Code Axle 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th rev.
1984 econo 4-speed MY8 3.32 3.69 1.95 1.24 0.73 — 3.42
1984 perf 4-speed M19 4.10 3.53 1.95 1.24 0.81 — 3.42
1985 V6/4-speed M17 3.65 3.31 1.95 1.24 0.81 — 3.42
1985 I4/5-speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1986 V6 4-speed M17 3.65 3.31 1.95 1.24 0.81 — 3.42
1986 V6 5-speed MG2 3.61 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.41
1988 I4/5-speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1988 V6/5-speed MG2 3.61 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.41


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fierofool
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Report this Post02-28-2015 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:


84's had isuzu transmissions. 85-86 had the 4 speed muncie (late 86's had the option of a 5 speed) and 87-88 had the 5 speed getrag. Isuzu also had a 5 speed transmission I think in 85 but don't quote me on that.



The Isuzu transmissions were all 5-speeds and weren't introduced to the Fiero until the 85 model year. All 85-88 4-cylinders had the Isuzu. All Fiero 4-speeds were Muncies beginning with 84, then the 85 and 86 V6's until it was replaced by the Getrag 5-speed in the late part of the production year. Once the Getrag was introduced, there was no option for a manual transmission in the V6. The Muncie was discontinued. The difference in the 84 and the 85/86 Muncie is in the gearing and the stronger cases of the 85/86.
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Report this Post03-01-2015 06:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Scott2scottClick Here to Email Scott2scottSend a Private Message to Scott2scottEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is a grear forum and great place to learn. Iv met so many new peolpe with good ideas and very helpful . Without this forum i would have never done or known about the 3800sc .
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Report this Post03-01-2015 08:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for woodyhereClick Here to Email woodyhereSend a Private Message to woodyhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The seller said my 84 had a trans that was kind of rare. It must be the econo model.

Thanks for all the info. I am continually amazed at the wealth of knowledge so freely given - and very much appreciated.

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Report this Post03-01-2015 08:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2fiero2Click Here to Email 2fiero2Send a Private Message to 2fiero2Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just went thru the same troubles with my car. I replaced the master and slave cylinders first. Also flushed out line and made sure cables where adjusted properly. That was great for about 1k miles but then shifting started to feel clunky. I rechecked everything and all was good but one part. Of course I did not find out until I drove up to the store and the car did not want to shift at all. The clutch arm was bent and not fully engaging. I did manage to make it back home, required driving in 2nd and running around a few lights. That was fun. Lol.

The clutch arm is a POS stamped steel unit and will fail in time. I bought the solid arm from The Fiero Store. Also went ahead and got Rodney's stiffer slave bracket because the factory unit does flex.

Installing is not bad just take your time.

My car shifts like butter now.


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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post03-01-2015 09:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:


You are correct, 84 was the 4 speed, im not sure why I put five speed. Here is the official wiki for each transmission and the ratio.

Manual transmission gear ratios
Year Style Code Axle 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th rev.
1984 econo 4-speed MY8 3.32 3.69 1.95 1.24 0.73 — 3.42
1984 perf 4-speed M19 4.10 3.53 1.95 1.24 0.81 — 3.42
1985 V6/4-speed M17 3.65 3.31 1.95 1.24 0.81 — 3.42
1985 I4/5-speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1986 V6 4-speed M17 3.65 3.31 1.95 1.24 0.81 — 3.42
1986 V6 5-speed MG2 3.61 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.41
1988 I4/5-speed MT2 3.35 3.73 2.04 1.45 1.03 0.74 3.50
1988 V6/5-speed MG2 3.61 3.50 2.05 1.38 0.94 0.72 3.41



So this is not a Fiero transmission?

It's a four speed manual. The ratios are quite different from the Muncie in my other 85, the SE. The cruising rpm are much lower and it can be driven at 30 mph in fourth, unlike the Muncie. The Muncie wants to go over 35 in fourth.

[This message has been edited by 85 SE VIN 9 (edited 03-01-2015).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post03-01-2015 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Your picture is of a M17 case. Gear sets have been swapped before, so you can't be absolutely sure what's inside.
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post03-01-2015 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

The ratios are quite different from the Muncie in my other 85, the SE. The cruising rpm are much lower and it can be driven at 30 mph in fourth, unlike the Muncie.



 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Gear sets have been swapped before, so you can't be absolutely sure what's inside.




You can take an 84 muncie and swap gears with the 85-86 muncie. In fact, I've had several people insist that swapping some 4-speed MY8 gears in the M17 makes it not only the strongest transmission, but makes it rev lower at speed just as you have insisted. Apparently it works really well with a 3.8SC swap.

The only problem with this is that the MY8 happens to be a very hard transmission to find considering it was only offered in 84' and only certain Fiero's came with it.
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post03-02-2015 06:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're right. I thought it said M17. This is the SE


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