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Help identify broken part -see pictures by Damelectrician
Started on: 02-08-2015 01:54 PM
Replies: 14 (403 views)
Last post by: Damelectrician on 02-10-2015 11:17 PM
Damelectrician
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Report this Post02-08-2015 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DamelectricianClick Here to Email DamelectricianSend a Private Message to DamelectricianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It has been a great while since I posted. If anyone searches my username, you will notice I rebuilt my 2M4's engine. Well, about 350 miles after it was on the road I had to get it towed. It has sat in the back of my garage ever since. Reviewing my old posts, even then it had sat for 6 years. Now it has sat for 4 more! but good news: I'm back into it!!
Bad news: Broken connecting rod and hole in the block!

I've got the engine out and on the stand, been just diagnosing, forensic analysis you could say. I know a new engine is the solution, but whatever I screwed up last time, I cannot repeat! [url=http://s1072.photobucket.com/user/Bill_Schwartz/library/][/url]

I am hoping that was an image location. I may have to try again. The image showed a broken connecting rod, specifically the cap end pieces, on the right. In the foreground various peices of the block I collected along the way.

The question is, what is the thingy on the left? Round with a large hole in the center. Six small holes around the periphery. I recall seeing it during the rebuild, but I cannot remember what it is or where it came from!

I'll post this and see if the image shows up. If it doesn't I'll up date later. The day is too nice here to sit at the computer.
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post02-08-2015 01:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The image doesn't work for me... Photobucket message says the page doesn't exist.
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GodSend
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Report this Post02-08-2015 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GodSendClick Here to Email GodSendSend a Private Message to GodSendEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

The image doesn't work for me... Photobucket message says the page doesn't exist.


http://s1072.photobucket.co....jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

For 18.99 you can get it in a canvas wrapped print!

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fierofool
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Report this Post02-08-2015 07:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't recognize it as a common part to a Duke. Is it an 88 engine? Maybe part of the counterbalance assembly? Just guessing.
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Ventura
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Report this Post02-08-2015 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VenturaSend a Private Message to VenturaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It looks to me like it's the camshaft thrust plate that is located behind the cam timing gear. There should be two bolts still in the block that held the thrust plate.
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Damelectrician
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Report this Post02-08-2015 09:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DamelectricianClick Here to Email DamelectricianSend a Private Message to DamelectricianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
OK. Trying again to post picture:



I'll have to check on the thrust plate idea. Thanks for the thought!
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Bloozberry
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Report this Post02-08-2015 09:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by GodSend:
For 18.99 you can get it in a canvas wrapped print!


LOL. There's just no getting away from advertising.

On a more serious note, I had a look in the parts manual and couldn't find anything that looked even vaguely like that part. Sorry.
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Ventura
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Report this Post02-08-2015 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VenturaSend a Private Message to VenturaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It originally looked like this..................

http://www.ebay.com/itm/153...em2c95d92e26&vxp=mtr

[This message has been edited by Ventura (edited 02-08-2015).]

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Damelectrician
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Report this Post02-08-2015 10:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DamelectricianClick Here to Email DamelectricianSend a Private Message to DamelectricianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Confirmed! Just looked behind Cam Gear and sure enough, two bolts and the ears which were once part of the thrust plate are still under the bolts.

Forensic analysis isn't coming together. There is the obvious, broken rod and hole in block. But there are also dozens of shavings, which I suspect used to be shims on the crank shaft because I had it turned. filled the space between the crank and the connecting rod. I would say oil pump was working because many of the shavings were right at the pump suction. And now a thrust plate on the cam shaft.

What was the sequence of failure? I would love to say its a 1984 and had one of the bad connecting rods. but I think if it just broke, the shims wouldn't have been to shredded. seems to me the shims shredded, making for a loose connecting rod and then it broke.

Crazy. oh, BTW, the failure occured while climbing a hill. downshifted HARD and then got real noisy. Iu jst shut it off and pulled over.
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Gall757
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Report this Post02-09-2015 09:49 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The sample picture from E-bay shows a Chevrolet part that seems to have a beveled ring in the middle. There is a thread on PFF about that ring, and I can't find it....but it's here somewhere.
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KurtAKX
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Report this Post02-09-2015 01:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Make sure the roll pin for the oil pump drive gear didn't shear off.

From the one picture, I see heavy bearing wear and heavy thrust wear.
Are you sure there was sufficient oil?

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 02-09-2015).]

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Lou6t4gto
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Report this Post02-10-2015 01:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Looks like a motor Run without oil if I've ever seen one, and Or serious Over revving, Or BOTH. (and I've seen more than a few). I take it you're just looking at it out of curiosity ?
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Patrick
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Report this Post02-10-2015 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Ventura:

It originally looked like this..................




I uploaded the image so that this thread would continue to be helpful for future readers long after the eBay ad (and image) have disappeared.
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Ventura
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Report this Post02-10-2015 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for VenturaSend a Private Message to VenturaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The beveled ring is a spacer to prevent the timing gear from being pressed too far onto the camshaft. Those thrust plates seem to be almost as brittle as glass. You can press the cam gear on without the spacer but if you go to far you aren't gonna be very happy.
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Damelectrician
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Report this Post02-10-2015 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DamelectricianClick Here to Email DamelectricianSend a Private Message to DamelectricianEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh, for sure curiousity first. And surely I don't want a repeat. I am confident the oil was there. The oil pump had at its suction a bunch of shredded metal. The pump gear and pin were intact at disassembly. I can't account for whatever oil went out the hole n the block, though! So now way to say it had x amount of oil the instant before the failure.

To go much of anywhere from here I must climb mountain passes. The hill I was climbing is about a three mile, 8% grade. On the way up, it downshifted hard once. surprised me. I thought, man, I didn't like that. But all seemed well and I continued the climb. Shortly, it did it again, followed by being killed. It started again, but sounded obviously mechanically bad. I still drove it to the top, with very little power and very noisy. I made it to a pull out and got safely off the road. And called for the tow truck. Like I said, about 350 miles on the rebuild. Tragic!


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