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Pleading for a poor Fiero, I need help please by Harley95
Started on: 02-04-2015 01:59 PM
Replies: 39 (1050 views)
Last post by: Harley95 on 03-16-2015 12:24 PM
Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a beautiful 88 Formula that is puzzling me out of my mind. its my only car and have a lot of history with her and Fieros in general. I've been having the craziest problems with the engine, it was running great after I got the distributer cap, rotor button, wires, plugs, and injectors changed a few months ago, now its back to the way it was missing and generally running like crap. I just, well half an hour ago replaced the plugs to no avail, does anyone have any advice on what could be the problem, I'm pretty much out of ideas?
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for E.FurgalSend a Private Message to E.FurgalEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
,check the inside of the cap for carbon tracking.
and look at the rotor for carbon tracking and/or burn threw
at night, with very little light, spray the plug wires with a spray bottle with water in it,with the engine running, if you get a light show,, the wires are junk..

[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 02-04-2015).]

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Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll check the cap but it was new, I checked the wires and they all seemed good. when I had it fixed it pretty much got new everything. I just don't get what keeps causing this.
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROPHREKSend a Private Message to FIEROPHREKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check your engine grounds. Have you replaced your fuel filter ?

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Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yeah the fuel filter got replaced with all the ignition parts. grounds I don't know what would be loose, it was running beautifly after I had all that work done, but I couldn't imagine brand new injecors going bad so soon.
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LostNotForgotton
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LostNotForgottonClick Here to visit LostNotForgotton's HomePageClick Here to Email LostNotForgottonSend a Private Message to LostNotForgottonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You may also want to double check your ignition module. I replaced mine a few years ago when I changed out the distributor and it ran SO bad afterwards. I was banging my head trying to figure it out because I assumed that the distributor and module were new that it could be those. Turns out it was a bad module. You can also replace the ignition coil-to-module wire just to make sure it's not a broken wire. Something to double check while your troubleshooting. Don't assume that because it's new it can't be the problem.

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Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
now this a surprise I didn't know you were on the the fiero forum, I'll have to check the module and coil, they were only a few parts that didn't get replaced, those were a couple of them. a new coil couldn't hurt anyway, I'll have to pull it and see if it fails any checks.
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Possibly the pick up coil in the distributor.
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Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
what are the symptoms of some of these?
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Report this Post02-04-2015 02:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 2.5:

Possibly the pick up coil in the distributor.


Missing at random rpms.
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Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't know, it seems to idle fine in park/neutral, but when you put it in drive it doesn't have any pep at all, and it'll idle really low and irraticattically, under load and driving the tach will jump
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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I second the pick-up coil. If it looks anything like this it's kaput:



Here's what a used one should look like:

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Harley95
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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'll have to check tomorrow. I just hope I can figure it out myself, my last bill killed me. I'll have a brand new Fiero by the time I'm done lol, guess that wouldn't be a bad thing though.
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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can figure it out...
If the tach seems to be jumping around ahead of the engine, look for pickup coil or ICM....or the wiring and connectors in the primary ignition. New parts fail....so it might be something you already replaced....sorry to say.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 02-04-2015).]

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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

If the tach seems to be jumping around ahead of the engine, look for pickup coil or ICM....or the wiring and connectors in the primary ignition. New parts fail....so it might be something you already replaced....sorry to say.


I hope its something simple like that, I can't afford new injectors again
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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LostNotForgottonClick Here to visit LostNotForgotton's HomePageClick Here to Email LostNotForgottonSend a Private Message to LostNotForgottonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Harley95:

now this a surprise I didn't know you were on the the fiero forum, I'll have to check the module and coil, they were only a few parts that didn't get replaced, those were a couple of them. a new coil couldn't hurt anyway, I'll have to pull it and see if it fails any checks.


Thanks, yes I finally joined back in December I had a brand new module that turned out to be defective when I did my 3.4 swap as well. Apparently ignition module failure is pretty common with the 2.8 engnine. In this instance the car didn't run bad and idled fine but if I accelerated under load (while driving, not parked) the engine would jump and stutter. I happen to catch it on video so if your car does anything like what is in this video it could be the culprit. Just skip to 3:10 in the video.

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Report this Post02-04-2015 03:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LostNotForgottonClick Here to visit LostNotForgotton's HomePageClick Here to Email LostNotForgottonSend a Private Message to LostNotForgottonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

LostNotForgotton

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After rewatching the video I just posted, yeah it only happened while under load. When I put it in park and rev'ed it, it seemed ok.
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Report this Post02-04-2015 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have read on here before that sometimes when the ICM is replaced it can affect the ignition coil and sometimes make it fail. Has the ignition coil been replaced?
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Report this Post02-05-2015 01:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Harley95:

... I got the distributer cap, rotor button, wires, plugs, and injectors changed ...



should always also change the ignition module, pick-up coil and ignition coil too
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Report this Post02-05-2015 05:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for therepairguyClick Here to Email therepairguySend a Private Message to therepairguyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ignition module is probably your gremlin
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Report this Post02-05-2015 12:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Here's what a used one should look like:



Except for those pickup coil leads of course.

Actually mine looked just like that; the plastic connector had long ago cracked off and gotten lost. And the pickup coil wires had faded and I could no longer tell which was white and which was green. One night I had to replace the module and for the life of me I could not tell which wire was which!

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Report this Post02-06-2015 05:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for woodyhereClick Here to Email woodyhereSend a Private Message to woodyhereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When you have the cap and rotor off, grab hold of the dist. shaft and see if it wiggles. Worn upper bushing and shaft can cause some erratic operation.

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Report this Post02-06-2015 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How much vertical play do you have in the distributor shaft? When it's running can you see the distributor cap move? The rotor may not be all the way down. There is a clearance value for the gap between the distributor gear and housing. You can get proper shim washers from rockauto cheap (before shipping) or you can use or adapt a hardware store washer.
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Report this Post02-19-2015 12:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sorry you all for no updates, the weather hasn't let up at all and no we have gotten the worst snow storm I've seen since I lived in Pennsylvania. I'll try and get under the hood as soon as I can manage to get outside without freezing off my fingers.
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Report this Post02-23-2015 12:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well I got the ignition coil tested 1. tested at 0.4 2.tested at 3. 7.33 would not move the meter at all on any ohm setting.

 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

You can figure it out...
If the tach seems to be jumping around ahead of the engine, look for pickup coil or ICM....or the wiring and connectors in the primary ignition. New parts fail....so it might be something you already replaced....sorry to say.





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Harley95
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Report this Post02-23-2015 06:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
bump will check the stator, cap, and try to test the module tomorrow.
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Report this Post02-24-2015 02:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Fiero STSClick Here to Email Fiero STSSend a Private Message to Fiero STSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
May also want to check the ignition coil and the tach filter both can cause inermittant miss.
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Harley95
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Report this Post02-24-2015 07:33 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fiero STS:

May also want to check the ignition coil and the tach filter both can cause inermittant miss.


the coil is getting replace because I can see slight arcing/glow from it
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Harley95
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Report this Post02-26-2015 07:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
sorry you all I still haven't gotten to test the rest of the stuff yet the weather sucks and work is bogging me, but another problem came up today driving home from work she really stumbled and threw a code 44, I should have mentioned I had a couple of engine codes that I thought were nothing but starting to think they weren't 32 and 33.
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Report this Post02-26-2015 09:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Every code means something....and should be fixed. The Code 32 is the least offensive, but if you let it go, it can cause other problems. Code 33 (MAP) can cause the engine to burn rich, and if it does that for a while it can mess up your 02 sensor and give you a code 44. Check the wires around the 02 sensor to make sure it's not something simple.
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Report this Post03-11-2015 07:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ok sorry it took so long to get under the hood, I replaced the Ignition coil to get a small improvement, she no longer stumbles and the tachometer doesn't jump but still no horsepower at all. I was also cleaning the throttle body and stuck my finger in the pcv pipe in the intake and noticed it was very grimy could it be clogging my injectors? or could the bad coil have just fouled the new plugs immediately that I put in and just need to put in a new set again.
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Report this Post03-11-2015 07:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Neils88Click Here to Email Neils88Send a Private Message to Neils88Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A less likely issue that sometimes crops up is bad fuel (such as water in the fuel). If this gets past the fuel filter it can cause many of the symptoms that you've had. I usually add some injector cleaner and top up the tank from a different gas station (just in case), then carry on looking for other issues. On occasion this has been enough to clear up the problems.
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Report this Post03-12-2015 06:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Neils88:

A less likely issue that sometimes crops up is bad fuel (such as water in the fuel). If this gets past the fuel filter it can cause many of the symptoms that you've had. I usually add some injector cleaner and top up the tank from a different gas station (just in case), then carry on looking for other issues. On occasion this has been enough to clear up the problems.


I think that's what I'm going to do, change the fuel filter again along with a new rotor button and distributor cap. I'm also going to grab a plenum gasket and clean and test the injectors and put new plugs in again. I think I'm also going to spring for a fuel pressure tester just to see where I'm at there, and check all the vacuum lines.
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Report this Post03-13-2015 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jjolmanClick Here to Email jjolmanSend a Private Message to jjolmanEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Next time you look at your plugs run a compression check, early signs of a bad valve are as you described
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Report this Post03-13-2015 09:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jjolman:

Next time you look at your plugs run a compression check, early signs of a bad valve are as you described


I will have to pick up a gauge but I'm thinking its fuel fouling, I wouldn't rule out poor compression though. also discovered the "new" plug wires are arcing for some reason.

[This message has been edited by Harley95 (edited 03-13-2015).]

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Report this Post03-13-2015 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Harley95:

...also discovered the "new" plug wires are arcing for some reason.


Where do you see this? Don't be fooled by "arcing" between the metal covers over the spark plug boots and the heads.
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Report this Post03-13-2015 11:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Where do you see this? Don't be fooled by "arcing" between the metal covers over the spark plug boots and the heads.


no it actually surprised me, one was arcing on the new ignition coil frame and another one was arcing on an engine to chassis ground. and to top this all off I have to change my brake pads today, one popped off -_-.

[This message has been edited by Harley95 (edited 03-13-2015).]

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Report this Post03-14-2015 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IanT720Click Here to Email IanT720Send a Private Message to IanT720Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just a quickie I didn't see mentioned. I had taken off the injectors to remove the lower intake to get to the valve cover seals. I buttoned it all up bu the car seemed down on power. Ran smoothish but just lost power over all... Turned out I had mixed up the injector wires! Maybe you did too...

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Report this Post03-15-2015 01:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by IanT720:

Just a quickie I didn't see mentioned. I had taken off the injectors to remove the lower intake to get to the valve cover seals. I buttoned it all up bu the car seemed down on power. Ran smoothish but just lost power over all... Turned out I had mixed up the injector wires! Maybe you did too...



I'll have to remember to be careful but I have not taken the injectors out for cleaning yet, I'm going out a little later to check out fuel pressure.
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Report this Post03-16-2015 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Harley95Click Here to Email Harley95Send a Private Message to Harley95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
update: it seems I have an injector issue again, I looked at the front bank of plugs and didn't see anything unusual except for 1 was a little wet but was confirmed to be firing, but when I yanked cylinder 3 I got no response so I guess its probably the injector again. I also checked the spark on 3 and put in a different and new plug but didn't get any difference either. I couldn't quite get my new fuel pressure tester to go on the schrader valve but will try it again later but it did seem to hold.
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