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2.8 engine a good deal? by fieromatty
Started on: 01-14-2015 05:00 PM
Replies: 46 (1033 views)
Last post by: fieromatty on 04-28-2015 07:51 PM
fieromatty
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
http://denver.craigslist.org/pts/4832681081.html

My engine is on its last leg so I need a replacement. Found this one on craigslist for 600$. Do you think its a good deal? Also, does anyone know how much a 2.8 shortblock weight?

Thanks
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Gall757
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't go for the transmission... ....there were no 5 speeds in 1985.
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fieromatty
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Lol, Ill keep my auto. Its running strong. Plus i don't want to swap out the steering column to put a manual in.
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can buy a low mileage used Fiero 2.8 for about $350....so I don't think you can call it a good deal.... but maybe its worth it.
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Don't go for the transmission... ....there were no 5 speeds in 1985.


No 6 speeds in 88 either, but I know plenty of people with 6 speed transmissions sitting in their Fieros.

I don't think it would be unexpected that someone may have swapped to a 5 speed on a 1985 model, in the last 30 years.
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The transmission shown is a 4 speed.
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fierofool
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For anyone interested in that transmission, it's not a 5-speed. The cable mounts and levers tell the story, along with the end plate. The Isuzu 5-speed had a yoke that held the cables. The Getrag 5-speed had a metal plate end cap and the 4-speed had the two round castings that used U-shaped metal clips to hold the cables in place. This is a Muncie 4-speed.

If the engine has been fully rebuilt, head to crank, it's a good deal for the long block. Even with that, it would be wise to check torque values on rod and crank journals, and head bolts. And get receipts for the parts and labor.
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Report this Post01-14-2015 05:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:
The transmission shown is a 4 speed.


Ah, so it is. I didn't notice the picture before. He probably ran through all the gear positions by hand with it sitting on the floor, and counted reverse and all 4 speeds together as a 5 speed.
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Report this Post01-14-2015 07:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
5 speed manual transmission - $400
- New clutch shaft bushing (upgraded common wear part)
- Upgraded roller bearing transaxel seals
- Inspected, cleaned and painted

Enough said?

It appears that people who swap stock 2.8's struggle to finish more than those swapping 3800 SC's. One of my '85's needs a new engine pretty soon. A 3800 swap makes more and more sense.

My second Fiero came with a swapped transmission and what appears to be a rebuilt 2.8 the PO didn't even mention. Six bills is way too much to pay for who knows what.

IMHO
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olejoedad
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Report this Post01-14-2015 07:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadClick Here to Email olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

Lol, Ill keep my auto. Its running strong. Plus i don't want to swap out the steering column to put a manual in.


No need to swap out the steering column......
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Patrick
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Report this Post01-14-2015 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 85 SE VIN 9:

Six bills is way too much to pay for who knows what.


I'd be a little leery of buying a "rebuilt" engine as well, especially one you can't hear running.

Who rebuilt it... some guy in his garage or a professional shop? Either way, it's probably going to come with a 30 foot or 30 second guarantee.

If I was in need of a 2.8, I'd try and find a good one that's being swapped out by someone for a bigger/newer engine. I've seen perfectly good 2.8's being given away in this situation.
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Report this Post01-14-2015 09:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PaulJKSend a Private Message to PaulJKEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Using a stock 2.8 is Never a good idea .

I'd do a 3.4 swap - only a little more work and well worth the power increase.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 01-14-2015).]

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fieromatty
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Report this Post01-14-2015 11:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The motor was rebuilt by a machine shop. Upgraded springs / lifters. New pistons rods. I have paperwork from the machine shop. I looked the machine shop up and they have been in business since 1976. No bbb complaints. Looks like I got a hell of deal if you ask me.

I drove it home (a 2 hour drive) in the passenger seat of my current fiero... LOL

Also came with a new fierostore dogbone. I am happy.
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Report this Post01-15-2015 01:08 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

Looks like I got a hell of deal if you ask me.


If I recall... you asked us.

 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

Found this one on craigslist for 600$. Do you think its a good deal?


We're all hoping you indeed got a good deal. Keep us informed on how this all works out.
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Report this Post01-15-2015 11:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin87FieroGTSend a Private Message to Kevin87FieroGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:


I drove it home (a 2 hour drive) in the passenger seat of my current fiero... LOL
.



That's a good one....I love this place!
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85 SE VIN 9
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Report this Post01-15-2015 05:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
BTW, what happened to the oil pan?
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David Hambleton
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Report this Post01-15-2015 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for David HambletonClick Here to Email David HambletonSend a Private Message to David HambletonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

I drove it home (a 2 hour drive) in the passenger seat of my current fiero... LOL



C'mon. Pics req'd.

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Report this Post01-16-2015 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you're looking to replace the motor... I would just go ahead and get a 3.4 V6/60.

You can get them pretty cheap, and might as well have the benefit of added power.


I'd be more than happy to LOAN you the jig/bracket from Rodney Dickman that I bought that will allow you to drill that extra hole for the starter (that's all you really need to do, other than popping out the freeze plug for the distributor).

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fieromatty
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Report this Post01-17-2015 06:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, I ended up buying the engine of course. Sorry I don't have pictures of it in the passenger seat of my fiero. It wasn't technically in the passanger seat, I took the seat out so it was more like sitting on the floor.

Anyways. I was able to get it up onto my engine stand to check it out a bit. The previous owner painted it a horribly ugly blue color which i guess I will sand off. It has a few performace parts.

Magnum roller rockers. Crane springs, New Ross pistons. From what I have read online the rockers will give a higher lift which should gain 15-30 hp buy I don't know if thats true or not. Please answer if you know. Here are some pictures.





Ugly blue paint....


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Patrick
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Report this Post01-17-2015 08:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Where's the hole for the ECM coolant temp sensor?

 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

Ugly blue paint....




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fieromatty
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Report this Post01-17-2015 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its covered with tape from when it was painted.
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Report this Post01-17-2015 09:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You may not want to sand that paint, and just paint over it. Sandpaper grit would be trouble.

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 01-17-2015).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post01-17-2015 10:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

Its covered with tape from when it was painted.


Okay, good. I was afraid maybe the 2.8 was from a different application.

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fieromatty
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Report this Post03-12-2015 02:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So, I put the motor it and noticed it had a really hard time cranking. I couldn't get it started so I sent it to my mechanic so he could inspect the work. He did a compression test and said the first cyl failed. He thinks the timing chain was not installed correctly among other things.

So I have to pull the engine back out of the car now.... Sigh.

I am thinking of just pulling the motor out and having my machinist go through it.

Since the motor has never run, can I reuse the head bolts or do I have to get new ones again?
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post03-12-2015 05:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you got Ross pistons you got one hell of a deal, my Ross pistons cost me over $700, my magnum roller rockers cost me about $119 barely used on a deal.
Now being you have forged pistons you only have one option now, BOOST IT.
No debating it, you have to boost it.

Edit to add: You can reuse the head bolts, I have many many times

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 03-12-2015).]

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Report this Post03-13-2015 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieromatty:

I couldn't get it started so I sent it to my mechanic so he could inspect the work. He did a compression test and said the first cyl failed. He thinks the timing chain was not installed correctly among other things.


Damn, this is the risk of buying a never-seen-running rebuilt engine. Hopefully the engine just has some minor, easily rectified issues.
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Report this Post03-13-2015 08:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 85 SE VIN 9Click Here to Email 85 SE VIN 9Send a Private Message to 85 SE VIN 9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When you say one cylinder failed does that mean it had no compression? Don't you usually have to test multiple cylinders and look for major differences? It sounds like the timing chain might not be lined up right. Not that I've dealt with that particular issue myself, but aside from the time and effort to get in there it might not be that big of a deal.

+1 on the boost. As long as you have to tear into it anyway maybe you should check what you actually have and look for other mistakes. If it checks out boosting would justify your investment of money and time.
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fieromatty
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Report this Post03-13-2015 09:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Well, he said the first piston he checked had no compression. He said he could check the others but he would charge me a full hour instead of a half... so I just let it be.

I am having it towed back here tomorrow. Won't be able to do much until Wednesday of next week. School and work have me too busy. Hopefully the weather stays as nice as it has been the last few days. Hopefully I can get it out in one day.

When I get it back out of the car, I will have my machinist look at it to verify all the clearances are fine since I don't trust it anymore.

I will give another update once I can.
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Report this Post03-15-2015 10:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was going to buy this engine but then I decided I had to at least try to find a 3.4L. The fact the guy said he didn't have the oil pan made me question the whole thing. Let me know what your mechanic finds. He also had a 5 speed getrag for sale as well. What ever happened to his Fiero?
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Report this Post03-16-2015 01:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
He said he sold the car without the engine. He originally planned on boosting the engine, but school limited his time. I don't know how long the seller was holding on to the engine because the receipt for the engine build is from 2007. I would have questioned the entire rebuild if not for the brand new ross racing pistons and lifters and springs listed on the rebuild receipt.

He said he gave the oil pan to his dad so he could use it for his fiero because his was damaged? The dad was supposed to replace the oil pan; but that never happened.

I wonder if the oil pan story is true because usually the oil pan and timing cover are a set due to the different configurations between years.

The original receipt totals over 3000 for the rebuild. I can't wait to have my machine shop tell me whats wrong. Hopefully its something simple like the timing belt is off.
I hope none of the valves were bent in the process of me trying to start the engine

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Report this Post03-20-2015 01:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So i had a few hours today. Started a 2pm ended at 10pm. Was able to get whole thing out and ready to go the machine shop tomorrow. Pistons 4 and 6 had this weird orange substance on the spark plugs. I don't know what it was. The motor was really hard to turn over. Even wit all the spark plugs removed. We will have to see what happens.
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Report this Post03-23-2015 01:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JohnWPBClick Here to visit JohnWPB's HomePageSend a Private Message to JohnWPBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I hope all works out for the better. I'm watching this thread now, just cuz I am curious what is wrong
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Report this Post03-23-2015 02:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by JohnWPB:

I hope all works out for the better. I'm watching this thread now, just cuz I am curious what is wrong


Me Too!.... the only orange I can think of that would be in an engine is iron oxide....(shudder..)
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Report this Post03-26-2015 09:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, so I have yet to take it to the machine shop. My machinist is about 4 weeks from taking on new projects and I don't trust many of the local shops, so i will have to wait.

I decided it was a good idea to take a look at the timing chain and see if it was even lined up right. It doesn't look right at all! Can some verify...



I pulled the heads off while i was at it to inspect the valves to see if they were bent... I cant tell with a naked eye if the are bent or not. is there a test i can do that doesn't involve taking the valves out?

The new ross pistons are flat tops. I have small impressions exhaust valves etched in to the top of them.
They are not big, just look like little scratches. I am guessing this is from the timing chain installed incorrectly.

I am now pretty sure this guy lied I purchased it from lied to me. All of the coolant valleys in the block have residue of coolant on their walls, but I never put any coolant in while I was testing. So I think the guy tried to put it in, but it didn't work so he sold it. The engine rebuild receipt is from 2007.... I should have noticed that earlier.

I think If I just get this timing set correctly, I will be fine.

Now for some good news,

I pulled the timing chain off and was able to freely rotate the crank. It feels nice and normal. The cylinder walls have the cross scoring marks of being freshly machined. I think If I can get this timing chain set right, I will be ok to just assemble it back together.

[This message has been edited by fieromatty (edited 03-26-2015).]

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Gall757
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Report this Post03-27-2015 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is that the same orange stuff that was on your spark plugs?

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 03-27-2015).]

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hiwil88formula
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Report this Post03-27-2015 09:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There should be a dot on the crank gear, it needs to be pointing up and matching with the timing gear. The dots need to line up pointing to each other. Take the chain off and rotate the crank so the dot points up and move the cam so its dot points down then reinstall the chain. Fix that then recheck compression.

[This message has been edited by hiwil88formula (edited 03-27-2015).]

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Report this Post03-27-2015 10:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
there are three marks and key slots on the crank gear. I am guessing each key-slot and its corresponding mark are for stock, advanced and retarded timing???

I found this collection of photos last night.....



My gear is the one on the right.

[This message has been edited by fieromatty (edited 03-27-2015).]

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fieromatty
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Report this Post03-27-2015 11:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieromattyClick Here to Email fieromattySend a Private Message to fieromattyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

Is that the same orange stuff that was on your spark plugs?



It is not the same orange stuff.

Should I get a new head gasket since the old was already cranked down even though its never been fired?
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Report this Post03-27-2015 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post03-27-2015 11:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah timing chain is off, undo the cam pulley, turn the crank until the O mark is up, and put the cam pulley back on with the dot down.
Then all should be good. this will put the key way around the 11:00 area

BTW I cant make it out in the pics are the rockers 1.52 or 1.6,
also with all this work done there might be an after market cam in it too.

You should be able to "rent" (for free) a compression gauge from your local auto parts store, or even buy one , prob less than the 1/2 hr at your mechanic.

BTW, if you don't have one already or don't know, you need an 85-86 oil pan, the 87-88 are different. Just FYI

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 03-27-2015).]

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