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3800 SC powertrain question by dcarrd
Started on: 12-23-2014 06:30 PM
Replies: 9 (308 views)
Last post by: dcarrd on 12-27-2014 12:36 AM
dcarrd
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Report this Post12-23-2014 06:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
While mating a 3800 sc series 2 to a 5 speed getrag is an adapter plate or spacers needed in between?

Reason I ask is because the engine previously lost oil pressure rather prematurely, chewed up the thrust bearing and some damage was done to the main bearings. The engine/tranny setup is bolted directly with a Spec 3 clutch. Upon removal I noticed some rubbing on one part of the outer face of the pressure plate that was apparently rubbing with the transmission housing. In talking to with the ZZP tech, he mentioned that he had spoken to some fiero guys with clearance issues is their powertrain and ended up damaging the thrust bearings also...If this is the case, how can I measure clearance and correct the issue? Grind the housing? put spacers between both? Any input is appreciated as I got the engine shortblocked and dont want to break it again.(I didnt break it the first time, the PO did lol)
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Riddick85
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Report this Post12-23-2014 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I am actually dealing with this right now with my 3800 I am trying to put in. My brand new spec clutch is hitting on the inside of the trans with the correct machined flywheel. I was suspecting the clutch may be mispackaged but if this is a little more common than just me.... maybe the number should be less than .840 thickness for.

There are many people who have completed manual swaps with no issues though with no adapter so maybe there are variations in the trans mounting surface of some 3800's. We would never know since they all came with autos which are a little more forgiving with the tolerances I think.
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FIEROFLYER
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Report this Post12-23-2014 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FIEROFLYERSend a Private Message to FIEROFLYEREdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A 4 speed clutch will rub on a 5 speed Getrag so make sure you have the proper clutch
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post12-24-2014 12:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by FIEROFLYER:

A 4 speed clutch will rub on a 5 speed Getrag so make sure you have the proper clutch


What Dan said....This is a common issue several run across and most the time it's cause the wrong PP is used. Using a 4 speed PP with the 5 speed will eat the inside of the Getrag up. Also using a 3800 PP will result in the same issue.
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dcarrd
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Report this Post12-24-2014 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
is it possible that it would cause excess forward pressure on the crank and chew up the thrust bearing? The crank had allot of front/back play when I started dismantling it. The clutch is in like new condition but I wasnt the original purchaser so I doubt they would exchange it which leaves me with either buying a new one or finding a workaround to this problem...
1. grinding the inside of the trans housing
or
2. adding spacers to somehow get more clearance(at the risk of not engaging the clutch properly)

any recommendations?
any luck with a parts store clutch?
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post12-24-2014 11:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have done several 3800 Series 2 and 3 SC swaps utilizing the Fiero getrag 5-speed transmission. In all cases, I had a stock 3800 Camaro flywheel machined down to 0.840" overall thickness and used a SPEC clutch kit specifically made for a 3800 5-speed Getrag Fiero swap and NEVER had any issues with the pressure plate hitting the trans.

Some people suggest machining down the flywheel to 0.810" overall thickness but I don't see how another 0.030" of clearance is going to do you any good if the pressure plate is contacting the transmission now. Sounds like you may have gotten the wrong parts for your swap, or that perhaps your flywheel was not machined down to the proper thickness.

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dcarrd
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Report this Post12-24-2014 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Darth, the parts were bought by the PO so its possible that he got the wrong parts, I just encountered the problem when I took it apart. I still have his number so I may be able to contact him and ask him what clutch he bought or I will call spec and ask if the part I have is correct. If there is no workaround then I guess I'll have to get a new clutch. Besides the Spec series, what other clutches can I use successfully at a decent price?
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dcarrd
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Report this Post12-25-2014 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
one interesting note, mine is not hitting on the outer edge of the pressure plate like others ive seen posted but on the face which is what leads me to believe it may be putting unnecessary pressure on the crank assembly. I will measure the the flywheel thickness to eliminate that as the culprit but maybe removing some more material migh correct the problem. I'll try to post a pic of the pressure plate in a minute.
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post12-27-2014 12:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dcarrd:

Darth, the parts were bought by the PO so its possible that he got the wrong parts, I just encountered the problem when I took it apart. I still have his number so I may be able to contact him and ask him what clutch he bought or I will call spec and ask if the part I have is correct. If there is no workaround then I guess I'll have to get a new clutch. Besides the Spec series, what other clutches can I use successfully at a decent price?


Way back when I started doing Fiero swaps (probably over 15 years ago), I used other brands of clutches other than SPEC. It has been so long I have forgotten what all I have used. So I can't really comment on other brands of clutches, sorry. But this question has been asked before on this forum and people have chimed in and given their opinions on SPEC and other clutch brands so you should be able to find those reviews if you search.
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dcarrd
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Report this Post12-27-2014 12:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dcarrdSend a Private Message to dcarrdEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yeah Ive been reading on other posts. Ive had great results with the centerforce kit for my Archie swap. I might call them too and ask if they have dual friction that can be used in there.
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