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zzp stage 3 heads for 3800 build by myclang
Started on: 12-17-2014 07:10 PM
Replies: 15 (544 views)
Last post by: myclang on 12-19-2014 09:26 PM
myclang
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Report this Post12-17-2014 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for myclangClick Here to Email myclangSend a Private Message to myclangEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I recently pulled a L67 out of a 97 GTP. donor car has 170K miles on motor and trans. I figured I should at the very least buy a set of refurbished OEM heads to breath some new life into the aged motor. I decided maybe I should up the anti (horsepower) and am thinking about getting stage 3 heads from zzp. This is when a bunch of people have told me that I shouldn't even touch the heads that are on the car. can someone explain why performance heads or even refurb'd heads are not worth it for my build? I mean I don't mind saving money, but I just want a clear explanation.

heads up.. No I don't want to go turbo, I don't want to spray anything into the motor, or even go near E85.
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nosrac
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Report this Post12-17-2014 07:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nothing wrong with using zzp heads and ARP head Boltz.
However, if you aren't also going with a high lift cam, N* TB, GenV, IC, headers you Midas we'll stay stock heads.
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myclang
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Report this Post12-17-2014 07:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for myclangClick Here to Email myclangSend a Private Message to myclangEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
that's the thing I AM starting out with a XP-Hot cam, and all the add ons to support the new cam. I have a throttle body laying around that I'll end up putting on, so I figured the better heads would be great for that beefy CAM. All I keep being told is the 1800 dollar heads are not worth the gains... so then I ask if the 170K miles on the original heads should be replaced with refurb'd factory heads.... not sure what to do.
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MstangsBware
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Report this Post12-18-2014 03:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MstangsBwareClick Here to Email MstangsBwareSend a Private Message to MstangsBwareEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by myclang:

that's the thing I AM starting out with a XP-Hot cam, and all the add ons to support the new cam. I have a throttle body laying around that I'll end up putting on, so I figured the better heads would be great for that beefy CAM. All I keep being told is the 1800 dollar heads are not worth the gains... so then I ask if the 170K miles on the original heads should be replaced with refurb'd factory heads.... not sure what to do.


$1800 can buy u MODS that will gain u more HP than heads. An IC with cut LIM, 2.8 pulley, headers with a N* is a good setup. Swap the Gen 3 for a Gen V and ur even better off. No thing wrong with pulling the heads for a fresh set if u do it right and have the experience. On the 13 or swaps I have done I have always stuck with the stock heads but then again that's what the customer wanted..
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mental floss
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Report this Post12-18-2014 08:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mental flossSend a Private Message to mental flossEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What does "cut LIM" mean?
Also, does a ported gen 3 sc equal a stock gen 5?
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nosrac
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Report this Post12-18-2014 02:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For $1800 heads you can get a turbo and really up the ante. Its not that after market heads are bad but you should consider cost/gain ratio. Is +20hp worth $1800 to you? Your whole 3800 swap is under $1800 including engine/trans if you are doing the work yourself and making own swap parts.

I would use the $1800 head money and go turbo from the jump. If my stock heads were junk then I would go used performance heads if I were going turbo. If not id get refurb stockers. The reason being is that the M90 can't flow enough air to maximize or justify using aftermarket heads from a 1/4 mile perspective. You may gain 20hp on a dyno sheet but who really cares if you can't run significantly faster on the track. Im talking a one to two seconds and not tenths of seconds. Heads on a fully modded car may gain you .3 seconds. A turbo can get a whole 2 seconds. Just using a Different dyno can gain you 20hp.
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nosrac
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Report this Post12-18-2014 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

nosrac

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quote
Originally posted by mental floss:

What does "cut LIM" mean?
Also, does a ported gen 3 sc equal a stock gen 5?


Look at zzp site for modded lim or Lower intake manifold for use with IC or intercooler.

Stock GenV > ported Gen III.
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post12-18-2014 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:

For $1800 heads you can get a turbo and really up the ante. Its not that after market heads are bad but you should consider cost/gain ratio. Is +20hp worth $1800 to you? Your whole 3800 swap is under $1800 including engine/trans if you are doing the work yourself and making own swap parts.



$1800? I've read about people being able to do the swap for $2,500 but I've never heard about it being THAT low. I thought the average swap for a 3.8SC was right around $3,000. I realize you stated that doing it yourself is less expensive but $1,800? I would love to know how people do it.
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post12-18-2014 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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quote
Originally posted by myclang:

I recently pulled a L67 out of a 97 GTP. donor car has 170K miles on motor and trans.


I've got a 2000 GTP that has right around 133,000 miles and it runs beautifully. Sure, it's been VERY well taken care of but L67's seem to be very strong. They do tend to leak a bit of oil so definitely put a new gasket on the oil pan (seems to be a common place they leak from.) No matter what you do, you MUST make a build thread and a video of it running

------------------
Every fiero has a story, It's our job to keep that story alive.

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Report this Post12-18-2014 07:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:


$1800? I've read about people being able to do the swap for $2,500 but I've never heard about it being THAT low. I thought the average swap for a 3.8SC was right around $3,000. I realize you stated that doing it yourself is less expensive but $1,800? I would love to know how people do it.


The mounts and harness are the most expensive needed parts but can be completely built by yourself. In fact the swap is so well documented you have information to make all needed parts. Besides a few gaskets and misc stuff there is only a few things you need to buy. Everything else can be made relatively easy. The swap gets easier, generally faster, amd more expensive you buy pre made swap parts and dress up items.
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Report this Post12-18-2014 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for LornesGTSend a Private Message to LornesGTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by nosrac:


The mounts and harness are the most expensive needed parts but can be completely built by yourself. In fact the swap is so well documented you have information to make all needed parts. Besides a few gaskets and misc stuff there is only a few things you need to buy. Everything else can be made relatively easy. The swap gets easier, generally faster, amd more expensive you buy pre made swap parts and dress up items.


Plus clutch or axles and tranny. I believe my basic swap will be maybe 1200-1500 but have to admit I haven't lined up all parts cost. A couple hundred of that is due to changing gaskets.
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nosrac
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Report this Post12-19-2014 01:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by LornesGT:


Plus clutch or axles and tranny. I believe my basic swap will be maybe 1200-1500 but have to admit I haven't lined up all parts cost. A couple hundred of that is due to changing gaskets.


I got my engine/ trans, complete dropout for $700 for my first swap. I went auto so no clutch to buy. Purchased needed parts from vendors to make swap easier and installer (mustangsbware) made the rest. Easiest swap I ever purchased...Lol.
Doing most of my third swap myself but did purchase off the shelf parts to make it easy so I probably won't be under the $2k mark.
Trading stuff will keep out of pocket cash at a minimum but if you add up monetary value of parts $2500 is not unreasonable.
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mental floss
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Report this Post12-19-2014 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mental flossSend a Private Message to mental flossEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For 1800 additional money above and beyond a complete swap cost. I'd put it into turbo too.

[This message has been edited by mental floss (edited 12-19-2014).]

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Report this Post12-19-2014 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou6t4gtoClick Here to Email Lou6t4gtoSend a Private Message to Lou6t4gtoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I've torn down 2- 3800s with 170-180,000 miles on them that were NOT well taken care of, and know what, they were still in VERY GOOD cond ! (perfect bearings, no leaky valves,no worn cylinders, no noises)
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Report this Post12-19-2014 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for radrace19Click Here to Email radrace19Send a Private Message to radrace19Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a set of the ZZP heads. I would recommend doing an intercooler before heads, and just select a camshaft that will work with the stock heads.
-Greg

------------------
1987 GT w/3800, and 4T65e
Running a standalone TCM, Push button shifter, and paddle shifter.

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myclang
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Report this Post12-19-2014 09:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for myclangClick Here to Email myclangSend a Private Message to myclangEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thank for all the info guys!

I will be sticking with stock super charger just or ease of install, and power at hand. I was told I should just replace valve seals and maybe valve cover gaskets, and I should be well off.

I want to stick with the XP HOT CAM, will this cam work well with stock heads or should I lower down to VS cam?

oh and believe me I'll start a build thread.
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