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Leaking Problem... by zzzhuh
Started on: 12-10-2014 07:42 PM
Replies: 34 (666 views)
Last post by: zzzhuh on 02-06-2015 10:12 PM
zzzhuh
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Report this Post12-10-2014 07:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Im back again for another question, but first let me say the website looks great cliff!

My 1986 GT seems to run just fine but the Coolant runs low alot. I top it off up to the "Full" line and a few weeks later it's back down to "add."

My Clutch fluid also seems to run low and it took a good grip to try and pull off the cap to refill it.

I can see a damp spot under the brake booster but my brake fluid seems to stay full (At least one isn't leaking aye?)

Any idea where a good place to start would be? I can't imagine this is a common issue but maybe im wrong? I looked on the site a little bit but couldn't find any information. Any help would be much appreciated, Happy Holidays!

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Report this Post12-10-2014 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Is there no puddle under the car? Two places coolant tends to go, on the ground, or in the engine. Is your oil milky? Does your exhaust feel extra humid and smell at all sweet? Does the passenger side carpet feel wet?

For the clutch master, did the line come a bit loose perhaps? Does the pedal have good pressure? Do you have trouble shifting? Is the floor wet on the inside at all, anywhere between the clutch banjo itself, and the floor pan?
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Report this Post12-10-2014 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Is there no puddle under the car? Two places coolant tends to go, on the ground, or in the engine. Is your oil milky? Does your exhaust feel extra humid and smell at all sweet? Does the passenger side carpet feel wet?

For the clutch master, did the line come a bit loose perhaps? Does the pedal have good pressure? Do you have trouble shifting? Is the floor wet on the inside at all, anywhere between the clutch banjo itself, and the floor pan?


I will have to check tomorrow for the exhaust, but my oil looks clean and the passenger side carpet is dry, even under the carpet.

The pedal does have a normal amount of pressure, but the shift's have always been a bit clunky. It did become a bit more fluent after changing the fluid with syncromesh.

I'll check around tomorrow and get back to you, but does this seem like a common thing? I guess it's hard to say, mainly because it's a 30 year old car and things tend to fall apart over time.
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Report this Post12-10-2014 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hiwil88formulaClick Here to Email hiwil88formulaSend a Private Message to hiwil88formulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Pull off the cover for the heater core and check for leaks. Mine was bad and it did not drip to the carpet just a slow leak and I did not notice it.
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Report this Post12-11-2014 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I drove the car rather aggressively today and I didn't loose any clutch fluid so it could just be a small leak.

I added coolant all the way to the 'full' line today so i'll have to see how far down it goes in a week.

I've heard people talk about putting a piece of cardboard under the car to see were leaks are coming from so I'll try that out just to see.

I didn't smell anything unusual about the exhaust fumes so that seems to check out. Im almost thinking that it is coming from the return pipe that goes from the engine up to the front, on the passenger side.

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 12-11-2014).]

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Report this Post12-16-2014 07:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After seeing a few threads on people talking about their coolant leaks I figured I would try to find my source. These pictures are on the pipe that returns from the passenger side back into the radiator (I think it does that.)







As you can see, this has been happening for awhile (the pipe should be clean, mine looks damp.)

Any one have the same issue? Im thinking that it might just need to be tightened but I could be wrong. Any additional information would be much appreciated!

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 12-16-2014).]

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Report this Post12-16-2014 09:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hard to tell. I would try tightening that clamp, but there could be a hole in the pipe, or even a bad hose. Hard to tell without inspecting.
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Report this Post12-16-2014 09:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:

Hard to tell. I would try tightening that clamp, but there could be a hole in the pipe, or even a bad hose. Hard to tell without inspecting.


Im gonna try and tighten the clamp hopefully tomorrow. Hopefully I can get it to stop leaking cause I've been loosing quiet a bit of coolant and coolant isn't cheap.
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Report this Post12-17-2014 08:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would be prepared to pull the hose off and inspect, clean the surfaces.
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Report this Post12-17-2014 01:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The clamp is going to need cleaning the hose inside then tightening.
Tighten only may not help.
Cleaning because:
Rust etc get into the clamp area and holds open the leak.
Antifreeze make easy to crush the hose w/o sealing because Coolant is lube to WP seal. Is why OE joints have bumps to keep hose slipping of whatever.

Aftermarket worm clamps are use because 1 clamp fits wide range of hoses.
Big problem is hard to find good ones. Most are stainless only for the band, the rest is cheap as possible to make.
Typical Torque: 45-65in.lbs. (5.1 - 7.3Nm)

OE wire clamps, called SAE Type “A,” work better and need less torque on the screw vs worm type.
Torque: 20-25in.lbs (2.3 - 2.8Nm)

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post12-17-2014 02:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

The clamp is going to need cleaning the hose inside then tightening.
Tighten only may not help.
Cleaning because:
Rust etc get into the clamp area and holds open the leak.
Antifreeze make easy to crush the hose w/o sealing because Coolant is lube to WP seal. Is why OE joints have bumps to keep hose slipping of whatever.

Aftermarket worm clamps are use because 1 clamp fits wide range of hoses.
Big problem is hard to find good ones. Most are stainless only for the band, the rest is cheap as possible to make.
Typical Torque: 45-65in.lbs. (5.1 - 7.3Nm)

OE wire clamps, called SAE Type “A,” work better and need less torque on the screw vs worm type.
Torque: 20-25in.lbs (2.3 - 2.8Nm)




Great information! If I get a new clamp what is a good brand that is effective like the OE?
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Report this Post12-17-2014 03:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Almost all stores only carries worm type clamps.
Ideal clamps were good but don't know.
http://idealtridon.com/aftermarket/12-hy-gear/

Worm types are good but can take more load before the hoses seal.

I'm still looking for new OE wire clamps.

I know 1 or 2 makes them but finding a dealer is harder, likely high shipping cost too.
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Report this Post12-17-2014 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Francis TClick Here to visit Francis T's HomePageClick Here to Email Francis TSend a Private Message to Francis TEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Clean the pipe real good then rent -you basically buy it and then they give your money back when you return it- a coolant leak-down tester from autozone and find the leak.

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Report this Post12-17-2014 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Paul.SSend a Private Message to Paul.SEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I would just tighten the the clamp and see what happens.

If I had to to take off a hose with a bulge like that, I would never put it back back on. That hose is going to go for good sooner rather than later, and I don't want to do stuff like that twice. The price of a new hose is a cheap way to get the reliability of a car going up, rather that just letting time take it's toll. -Paul

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Report this Post12-18-2014 10:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Above picture w/ hose?
Does not really show "bulge."

Shows the hose going over the "flare" on the pipe and pressure for the clamp to squeeze the hose. My guess is the clamp top edge is right near the flare making to look like bulging.

Should be Hose end stops at the second flare starts. Clamp should be in center between two flares.

The flare under hose is to stop the hose just blowing off when the clap is a little loose, like now.
Any loose clamps Will blow off the hose w/o the flare. Many here have to fix crush pipes w/o the flare and have the hose to blow off. I have 2 clamps on each end to prevent just that problem for fix a crush pipe.
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Report this Post12-18-2014 12:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Paul.SSend a Private Message to Paul.SEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

.......the hose going over the "flare" on the pipe and pressure for the clamp to squeeze the hose. My guess is the clamp top edge is right near the flare making to look like bulging.

That may be part of it, but it looks like a bulge to me. Beyond that, the rest of its appearance puts it on my “past its prime” list. -Paul -Paul

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Report this Post12-18-2014 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Paul.S:

That may be part of it, but it looks like a bulge to me. Beyond that, the rest of its appearance puts it on my “past its prime” list. -Paul -Paul




Doesn't look like a bulge... it looks normal.
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Report this Post12-18-2014 06:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update: Well I've got some good and bad news.

Good:
I put the car on some jacks and checked out the leak. I tightened the clamp and it was VERY loose. Even as I was tightening it, more coolant was leaking out. After I got it off the stands I went and drove it around... Let's say "Enthusiastically." I got the car all warmed up and then put it back on the stands. The leak wasn't even to be found, .

Bad:
I am still leaking clutch fluid out. I tried to open it up to add some and the cap doesn't seem to come off, it's TIGHT on their. Here is what I found.

Here is the leak (under the brake booster.





As you can see, it seems like a 'weird' leak for the clutch fluid, especially because my brake fluid is staying consistent.

Well, as I tried to loosen the cap I found this piece was moving back and forth.



You can clearly see the fluid and it is pretty much loose or "broken off" enough to were I can completely remove it if I wanted to. Im assuming it's just an O ring, but you guys would know better than me. Im concerned because it could be letting air into the system. Where is the clutch bleeder? Any one know what O ring I need?
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Report this Post12-18-2014 07:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If clutch tank mounted same way as brake MC... Is not simple o-ring.

Most Clutch MC come w/ the tank attach to MC.
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Report this Post12-18-2014 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Paul.SSend a Private Message to Paul.SEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have never seen 2 tubes joined like that sealed with and o-ring. If there is an o-ring in there, what is holding the seal tight? I see a replacement MC in your future. -Paul

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Report this Post12-18-2014 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

If clutch tank mounted same way as brake MC... Is not simple o-ring.

Most Clutch MC come w/ the tank attach to MC.


Sorry im not familiar with the term MC. What is that?
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Report this Post12-18-2014 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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Member since Jan 2014
 
quote
Originally posted by Paul.S:

I have never seen 2 tubes joined like that sealed with and o-ring. If there is an o-ring in there, what is holding the seal tight? I see a replacement MC in your future. -Paul



Im assuming I'll need this?
www.fierostore.com/Product/Detail.aspx?s=54200
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Report this Post12-18-2014 10:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
MC = Master Cylinder....the one up in front.

The fiero store page is slave cylinders....
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Report this Post12-18-2014 11:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:

MC = Master Cylinder....the one up in front.

The fiero store page is slave cylinders....


The master Cylinder isn't leaking nor does it have any issues. The picture I took is the slave cylinder. It is leaking, I'll try to take a video and post it on monday (I work all weekend.)
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Report this Post12-19-2014 01:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

The master Cylinder isn't leaking nor does it have any issues. The picture I took is the slave cylinder. It is leaking...


Scroll up a bit and look at your posted images. I think you're a little confused.

 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

Where is the clutch bleeder?


On the slave cylinder... at the back of your Fiero!

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 12-19-2014).]

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Report this Post12-19-2014 10:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

On the slave cylinder... at the back of your Fiero!



Hey I like your new avatar, very much so in the spirit!

If that is the master cylinder, why did Gall say this: http://www.fierostore.com/P...00%20%20%20%20%202ND
is the slave cylinder?

I guess I'll have to buy a new one. Any good threads on bleeding the system, im assuming it's pretty straight forward.
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Report this Post12-20-2014 07:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

If that is the master cylinder, why did Gall say this: http://www.fierostore.com/P...00%20%20%20%20%202ND
is the slave cylinder?


Because that's not the page you originally linked to. On the page you actually linked to Here, it's possible Gall just noticed the two slave cylinders on that page (as I initially did as well).

 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

Any good threads on bleeding the system...


More than you can shake a stick at. See what you can find. If you have trouble finding a good one, report back.

 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

Hey I like your new avatar, very much so in the spirit!


Thanks. I made it a few years ago and usually bring it back every Christmas. (Just in case you might be interested, I posted the original full-size Toady picture I took Here.)
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Report this Post01-22-2015 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
After it being super cold the past few weeks, I was finally able to check and see my clutch pedal.

Rodney Dickman has this picture on his website show casing the difference:



Mine looks like this:




It doesn't seem to look like either one that Dickman shows. I know for a fact this is the second gen version because my Clutch master cylinder has the filler in the middle instead of the end.

Anyone able to help?

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 01-22-2015).]

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Report this Post01-22-2015 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Anyone?
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Report this Post01-23-2015 01:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jschmidt95Click Here to Email jschmidt95Send a Private Message to jschmidt95Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I got no clue. I would guess with that groove that maybe the end of the rod wore into the pedal, but clearly the plastic bushing is intact.

In the meantime, get a rag or something under that leak and clean it well, that fluid eats away at the paint, then the metal
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Report this Post01-23-2015 04:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:

It doesn't seem to look like either one that Dickman shows.


Don't be put off by the end of the shaft(s) not looking the same. It's just two different ways of keeping the banjo on the pedal. Cotter pins are easier to (find and) replace than C-clips IMO.

What you're interested in is the diameter of the shaft. Got a set of digital calipers handy? (I bought a set at Harbor Freight for 10 bucks.)

It might be easier to tell from the size of the hole in the bushing on the banjo. Got a picture of that?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 01-23-2015).]

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Report this Post01-23-2015 09:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jschmidt95:

I got no clue. I would guess with that groove that maybe the end of the rod wore into the pedal, but clearly the plastic bushing is intact.

In the meantime, get a rag or something under that leak and clean it well, that fluid eats away at the paint, then the metal


The leaks are all good except my Clutch Master Cylinder.
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Report this Post01-23-2015 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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Member since Jan 2014
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Don't be put off by the end of the shaft(s) not looking the same. It's just two different ways of keeping the banjo on the pedal. Cotter pins are easier to (find and) replace than C-clips IMO.

What you're interested in is the diameter of the shaft. Got a set of digital calipers handy? (I bought a set at Harbor Freight for 10 bucks.)

It might be easier to tell from the size of the hole in the bushing on the banjo. Got a picture of that?




I'll check and see on monday and report back. Thanks mate!
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Report this Post02-05-2015 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Talked to Rodney again and he informed me that the 1st size (two different pieces) didn't have a plastic clip on the banjo itself like the smaller version. If you look at your Banjo and it has a plastic piece on it that slides on, you'll want to buy the smaller banjo. Im assuming the first version is just a legit piece of metal that slides from one piece to the clutch pedal.

I will upload some photo's once I get the piece and show you guys the damage of my original master clutch cylinder.
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Report this Post02-06-2015 10:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Update:

Just got my new Master Cylinder from Rodney Dickman today and all I can say is "WOW!"

First time I have ever purchased something from Mr. Dickman and the quality of this thing is amazing. Makes me wonder why Pontiac didn't make it this way to begin with. I ordered this thing 3 days ago and already got it. Thanks Rodney! I'll post some more pictures when I get it installed.



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