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Another Possible V6 by GTPatrick
Started on: 12-04-2014 06:11 PM
Replies: 14 (577 views)
Last post by: Raydar on 12-09-2014 10:45 PM
GTPatrick
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Report this Post12-04-2014 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for GTPatrickSend a Private Message to GTPatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Sports fans ,

Here's another possible idea for a GM V6 engine . Recently I came across an internet article talking about the GM V6 60* engines . All from the first Gen 2.8l eng on up till the present , or recently present , dohc V6's was the V6 that went into the original Cadillac CTS's which I believe were rated at least 250 hp .

Now my question is , is there anyone out there who has knowledge of the CTS engine , its design parameters and done any investigation into the possibility of its use in a Fiero ? From an engineering standpoint , is it possible ? Is anyone crazy enough to try this ? GM/Cadillac folks are no help .

The reason that I am thinking of this is I have a Caddy CTS 2003 model . Trade in value is at best $4-$6 K . The best part of that one is it has only 30K miles on it . In parts the car is more $$ value than as a whole car .

Does anyone have any input on this subject ? Any positive inputs would be greatly appreciated .

Ciao for now my homeys .
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ericjon262
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Report this Post12-04-2014 06:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
there was more than one V6 offered, either a high feature 2.8-3.6L, or the Saturn V6 in 2.6-3.2L no reason you couldn't do either, never seen the Saturn engine done...
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lateFormula
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Report this Post12-04-2014 06:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lateFormulaSend a Private Message to lateFormulaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Considering the CTS has always been a front engine-rear wheel drive car I would guess that the engines would have a bellhousing bolt pattern for a longitudinal transmission and would not mate to a FWD trans without an adapter.
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ericjon262
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Report this Post12-04-2014 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lateFormula:

Considering the CTS has always been a front engine-rear wheel drive car I would guess that the engines would have a bellhousing bolt pattern for a longitudinal transmission and would not mate to a FWD trans without an adapter.


the Saturn engine was used FWD and RWD, as was(is) the High Feature V6
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Raydar
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Report this Post12-04-2014 07:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The LY7 (3.6 DOHC) was also used in the GMC Acadia, in a transverse configuration. Instead of the CTS @ 252 HO, it has 270 HP in the Acadia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik..._High_Feature_engine

This would be my "wet dream" swap, but the PCM is still largely an unknown in this community.

Bmwguru has pretty much completed a turbo 2.8 DOHC / six speed F40 manual swap from a Saab 9-3. It is essentially the same engine.
He even used CTS sensors when he replaced some of his originals. He used the Saab PCM, and said that it was workable.
The build thread is in The Construction Zone.

Edit - The HF V6 has a completely different tranny bolt pattern from any of our engines.


------------------
Raydar
88 Formula IMSA Fastback. 4.9, NVG T550

Praise the Lowered!

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-04-2014).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post12-04-2014 07:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
LY7

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Report this Post12-04-2014 09:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

LY7



...and?



Edit - That's a huge plenum. Is that from one of the SUVs?

I had seen postings on one of the forums that seemed to state that there was more room under the hood of the SUV, allowing more room for plumbing.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-04-2014).]

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Report this Post12-04-2014 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lateFormula:

Considering the CTS has always been a front engine-rear wheel drive car I would guess that the engines would have a bellhousing bolt pattern for a longitudinal transmission and would not mate to a FWD trans without an adapter.


The High Feature engines have their own bolt pattern, as do the Ecotec 4 cylinders, and the same pattern is used for both transverse and longitudinal applications in both cases.

The hard part with the High Feature engines is the only manual transmission ever offered in transverse form for that bell pattern, was the Saab F40, only available for a few years, only with the 2.8t, so they can be very expensive to find if you want a manual. Otherwise they were only offered with the 6 speed automatics in transverse form, which is fine if you want an automatic, but also presents additional challenges as well. They don't have the long snout like the older 4 speed transmissions did, so you can't just mount it in the same way that the 4t65e gets mounted when one gets swapped in with the 3800.

bmwguru has a 2.8t/F40 from a Saab in progress. I don't know how close he is to having it done. I haven't checked his thread in a while (or seen it pop to the top).

As for the 3.6 in the CTS specifically, they are known for having timing chain issues. I wouldn't straight up used one without giving it a decent refresh with timing chain. The LY7 was used in a huge number of cars and SUVs. They are very easy to find. They can be good engines, and would definitely be fun in a Fiero, but if you're new to swapping in engines, or don't have the time/money to do it (it will be an expensive swap, even if you already have the engine), I'd steer clear of it.
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masospaghetti
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Report this Post12-05-2014 07:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Which engine does your CTS have?

In addition to the 2.8/3.6 "high feature" V6s that we are all familar with, there's also a 3.2 liter V6 that was, IIRC, an Opel design.
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Report this Post12-05-2014 01:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by masospaghetti:

Which engine does your CTS have?

In addition to the 2.8/3.6 "high feature" V6s that we are all familar with, there's also a 3.2 liter V6 that was, IIRC, an Opel design.


Ah, indeed, the 2003 USDM CTS came with the 3.2 54-degree engine, which is not very desirable, and the High Feature engines didn't go in until 2004. It's also only 220 HP rather than the 250 the LY7 made.

The 54-degree engine might fit a little better in the Fiero compartment though, but there's much less in the way of aftermarket that can be had for them, and it might be more costly to do any repairs when the time comes.
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bmwguru
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Report this Post12-07-2014 05:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

bmwguru has a 2.8t/F40 from a Saab in progress. I don't know how close he is to having it done. I haven't checked his thread in a while (or seen it pop to the top).


I got it running and currently working out the bugs. I've been very busy with my shop's new location that I haven't had the free time to spend on it lately.

Dave
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Report this Post12-07-2014 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by bmwguru:

I got it running and currently working out the bugs.

Dave


Dave,

Stuff that I've been able to find seems to indicate that the LY7 uses the E67 PCM. Does yours use the same one?
If not, can you share what it is?

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-07-2014).]

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bmwguru
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Report this Post12-08-2014 04:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for bmwguruClick Here to visit bmwguru's HomePageClick Here to Email bmwguruSend a Private Message to bmwguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Dave,

Stuff that I've been able to find seems to indicate that the LY7 uses the E67 PCM. Does yours use the same one?
If not, can you share what it is?




Mine uses the Bosch ME9.6 ecu.
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Report this Post12-08-2014 10:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:
Dave,

Stuff that I've been able to find seems to indicate that the LY7 uses the E67 PCM. Does yours use the same one?
If not, can you share what it is?


Are you looking at CTS ECMs that lead you to the e67? The 05-07 CTS-V had the LS2 which was run by the e67 ECM.

The LY7 was also available in several versions worldwide. Some might have used the e67 ECM, but I wouldn't hedge the idea of performing a swap on that possibility, without definite proof.
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Report this Post12-09-2014 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I forget where I found it now, but that's what it seemed to indicate. (Was slightly ambiguous, IIRC, but it kind of leaned that way.)
If Dave's had used the E67, that would have cemented it for me. Since it does not, I'll keep on poking around.

Thanks Dave.
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