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4_speed slave cylinder removal by gerryg
Started on: 11-20-2014 02:22 AM
Replies: 17 (816 views)
Last post by: gerryg on 12-10-2014 04:46 PM
gerryg
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Report this Post11-20-2014 02:22 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi, everyone. This is my first post, so please bear with me. My Fiero is an 86 GT with the 4 speed. My question is, what is the easiest way to remove the slave cylinder? Has it been covered here before? If so, how do I locate the thread? My problem is getting to the bolts. Actually 1 is already missing so it shouldn't be that hard, or so it seems. The slave cylinder has a heat-shield cover? that is bolted on with it and it's in my way. I got a socket on it (9/16th), but don't have that much clicking space for the ratchet. I'm also worried that once i do get it off, that I'll have an even harder problem getting the bolts back on. Especially the one that is missing already. I don't see how I'm going to get any type of wrench in there (the one opposite the firewall). Also, another question, which I'm not really sure if it's transmission related is, I have a 2 pronged plug that i don't know where it plugs into. The wires split off from the plug that plugs into the 4 speed. It's just dangling there and I see no possible receptacle. Could it be for the trunk blower motor? I don't know how to check if the blower is working. OK, thanks in advance, and I apologize if I broke any posting rules. Thanks again for any advice.
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-20-2014 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can use a deepwell socket and a stubby flex-handle ratchet. It does require some flexibility on your part, too. Also a flex-head wrench might be of help. Once you have the nut loosened a little, you can pull the shield out of the way. Before putting it back, take a pair of nips and open up the end of the one closed bolt hole on the shield. It will allow you to sllip it into place after lightly installing the retainer nuts. Another way is to just remove the slave along with it's mounting bracket. There is one bolt that you can see. It sits vertically at the right rear corner of the mount. The other is underneath and sits horizontally. You will need to feel underneath the slave to locate it. I don't recall but I believe it's something like a 17 or 19mm bolt head.

The extra harness wire you find, probably at the transmission speed sensor, is a connector for the Getrag backup light. Since they were already in the planning stages for the Getrag, all V6 manual harnesses had that connector in 86. Four speeds, as you probably know, have the switch mounted on the console shifter base.

Because many parts store listings show the incorrect slave for the 86 4-peed, order one for an 86 2.5 Iron Duke. They're the same. That's unless you're ordering from Rodney Dickman. You can tll him the truth about the V6 and trans and you'll get the correct part. And you should order from Rodney to get the right part and quality.

The trunk blower can be tested by turning on the ignition and pressing Norm or MAX on the climate control panel.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 11-20-2014).]

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gerryg
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Report this Post11-20-2014 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Fierofool, you just about covered it all. I think I'm going the remove it with the mounting bracket. I saw the easily visible one now need to find the horizontal one. Another question, though, but first let me give you a little bit more insight about my car. I just got it about 5 months ago. The owner said it had been sitting for about 15 years. I finally got it road ready about a month ago. It was shifting great and all, but suddenly I lost the clutch. The master cylinder was low. An acquaintance tried to help me and pressured up the system and got the clutch back but only temporarily. Tried again and same problem. Turned out it was leaking the fluid at the slave cylinder. Well, as I said, one bolt was missing, so, the slave was **** -eyed a little bit, flush on the bolted side, about 3/8th of an inch out at unbolted side. So, I'm wondering, if maybe that's why it leaked the fluid out. If I take the cylinder out and overhaul it as per Haynes manual, do you think it will solve my problem. Another thing is the flex line at the cylinder has 2 tightening nuts. Do I hold one with a wrench while removing the one by the cylinder with another wrench? It sure is difficult enough with one hand in there, much less two, lol. OK, I hope you're following what I am trying to say. Thanks again for your help.
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-20-2014 05:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The slave being ****eyed won't cause a leak, but can cause lack of disengagement. Your leak probably came from the fact that it sat for 15 years and built up a coat of varnish and probably water inside the slave. The water may have pitted the bore and the varnish damaged the piston seal when it moved during clutching. If you have a missing stud on the slave, and with the slave having set so long, I would recommend just tossing it out and ordering one from RodneyDickman.Com His cylinders are all aluminum and have the double seal pistons. The stock Fiero slave only has a single seal on the piston.

The hidden bolt fits in the hole shown in this view from below.


View from the top.


Your slave should have had the studs solidly attached like this:


And the fluid line should have only one nut and it screws into the bottom of the slave. If it has 2, hold the one closest to the slave and turn the one on the line. Turning the one on the slave may likely break your fluid line.

If you really want to rebuild your own slave, be sure you hone it well to break any glaze and rust inside. Purchase a slave rebuild kit for an 85 Toyota MR2 and install it along with the original Fiero spring. This will give you a double seal which is less likely to leak. But if the bore is badly scarred or pitted, it will only reduce the leak and not prevent it. Cheaper but more chancey than just purchasing Rodney's slave. http://rodneydickman.com/ca...h=61&products_id=289

If you should break your fluid line, he has a fix for that, too. You can see on the end with the fitting attached that there's only one nut that screws into the slave. The piece positioned in the center is a compression fitting used for splicing the repair line onto the old line after cutting the broken end away.
http://rodneydickman.com/ca...th=61&products_id=33

When you've got the repair made, post back and we'll guide you through a one-man bleeding method.

It hasn't been said yet, so Welcome to the world of Fieros and to the forum. Congratulations on the find and save. Now, download PIP so you can post some pictures for us. Look for the logo at the bottom of every page.
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Arns85GT
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Report this Post11-20-2014 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Arns85GTClick Here to Email Arns85GTSend a Private Message to Arns85GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
When I remove the slave from my 4 speed (muncie) I put a small visegrip on the plunger and wire the plunger home. If you let that plunger go loose, you'll get air into the slave. Same thing goes for installing it. Depress the plunger and hold it while it is installing. When you bleed it, you'll find the bubbles want to cling to the plunger so to get it initially bled you'll want to have it off the engine in a vertical position.

The slave is a little tricky to bleed. You will find you won't be able to disengage the clutch until it is thoroughly done. I use a broom handle to actuate the clutch pedal while I watch the slave. The slightest movement of the clutch pedal should move the plunger. I actually pre-load the clutch just a little bit.

BTW I bought a Wagner cast unit and it works well.

Hope this helps.
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gerryg
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Report this Post11-24-2014 12:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks fierofool and Arns85GT. That is some great information there from both of you. I downloaded the PIP app and will post some pics when i get better organized. I didn't get to remove the slave yet as the day I was going to do it on, it rained all day. Then next day had to start work all thru the weekend. Tomorrow (Monday) I plan on doing it. I need to get a pic of that weird compression fitting. OK thanks again. I'll be back!!!
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-24-2014 07:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I was checking the oil on one of the cars over the weekend and happened to look at the slave. I did notice that there's a nut at the bottom of the metal line where it meets the braided line. I've never used that. I usually just held the solid line with my hand while turning the fitting that goes into the bottom of the slave.

Sometimes the solid line will rust to the fitting and the line will turn with it. Holding that lower nut at the flexible line could twist or break the short metal portion. Holding the line with your hand and working the fitting back and forth has less chance of breaking it. A wrench on it may help after the slave attachment nut has been loosened enough to turn.

I could see some benefit of screwing a brass fitting into the bottom of the slave then screwing the line into the fitting. That might help reduce the problem of the fitting rusting to the slave.
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gerryg
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Report this Post11-24-2014 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ok, fierofool, now you know what I was talking about on the compression fitting. I'm going to try to post a pic of it just to clarify. Also going to post a pic of the plug that splits off of the harness leading up to the 4 speed. Based on all the info you've already given me I think I should be able to remove the slave. Thanks again
Compression fitting

Plug for Getrag?


Also, I have another question concerning vacuum hose routing. Can I just try to get them resolved here, or should I start a new thread?
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Report this Post11-24-2014 08:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The extra plug was advance planning for introduction of the Getrag in the late 86 production year. It was for the backup light switch which is in the Getrag transmission.

Try to break the upper fitting loose. Once you get it loose you might try holding the lower one with a wrench, but just be sure the metal line isn't rusted to the upper fitting so you don't twist and break it. The lower nut is stationary to the hose. I notice the metal part between the two hex nuts is shorter than what I have on my cars, but maybe it was produced by a different GM vendor. I think the shorter version would be less likely to twist.

There should be a vacuum line diagram on the emissions control decal on your deck lid. If you don't have one, look here:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/090677.html

If this doesn't answer your questions about the vacuum lines, it may be best to start a separate thread so folks can concentrate on each particular problem unto itself. It would also help others in future searches.
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gerryg
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Report this Post11-24-2014 09:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks again for the advice. Everything sounds easy enough. You've given me tons of knowledge. i have an 87 with a 4 cylinder and an auto transmission. Everything is a lot simplerto work on . Except now I think the timing gears went bad or something. I haven't had a chance to work on it as I am now focusing on the GT.
The vacuum hose wiring diagram doesn't help me much. Either I don't know how to decipher it or it doesn't show the vacuum hoses leading into the cruise control diaphram.

I definitely will start a new thread.
Thanks
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Report this Post11-24-2014 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You're right. No cruise vacuum lines, but we can work that out later. A few simple photos will do it. By the way, there are no vacuum lines that go on those two nipples. The top one gets a foam rubber filter and the bottom port is a blind port.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 11-24-2014).]

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gerryg
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Report this Post11-24-2014 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does it need the foam rubber filter? If so, where can I get one or can I make it myself?
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-24-2014 09:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's a purge port. Most of our cars have lost that filter long long ago. It was however put there for a reason. Find a piece of open cell foam, maybe from a vacuum cleaner filter and make a small hole in it and stick it on there. The metal clips were designed to hold a round foam cap on the upper nipple.
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gerryg
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Report this Post11-26-2014 09:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks fierofool. Little by little I'm getting somewhere. Getting back to the slave cylinder, I got it off by removing it with the bracket. Whoever worked on it before did a shoddy job. It's any wonder it was working at all!!! For one it was missing the nut on the slave cylinder itself and the bracket was all broken up too. I also think that the wrong bolts were put on as the one on top was different from the horizontal one. I would think both would be identical?
Here's a picture of the bracket.

I ordered a new bracket from The Fiero Store, but now I have to wait till it gets here and with the holidays coming up, I probably won't get it till mid next week. I guess I'll focus on the high idle. I appreciate all your help.http://www.fiero.nl/forum/icons/icon7.gif
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-26-2014 01:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Rodney Dickman has the better 4-speed slave bracket. Your broken bracket is common to the 4-speed V6 bracket. http://rodneydickman.com/ca...th=28&products_id=59

The two bolts you mention are different sizes. The one underneath is larger than the vertical bolt. The one underneath also bolts the bell housing to the engine. It needs to be bigger. That broken flange alone can cause the clutch to not disengage, then add the missing nut on the stud.

Previously you mentioned the heat shield. When you replace it, be sure to open up the end the way I suggested. There is also an ear that's supposed to be bolted to the engine. I have never used that one. I just use the two that go on the slave studs. Be sure that you put the flange between the bracket and the nuts, not between the slave body and bracket. By not using the flange that bolts to the engine, you can tip the heat shield up and down to access the slave nuts.
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TXGOOD
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Report this Post11-26-2014 02:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TXGOODClick Here to visit TXGOOD's HomePageSend a Private Message to TXGOODEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This may sound strange but I envy you.
I am about to replace the slave cylinder on my F150 that some idiot engineer in his wisdom decided that the slave cylinder should be mounted inside the bellhousing around the input shaft of the tranny.
So, I get to pull the tranny.
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fierofool
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Report this Post11-26-2014 05:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fierofoolClick Here to visit fierofool's HomePageClick Here to Email fierofoolSend a Private Message to fierofoolEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Had the Fiero continued in production it might have been it's fate also. The 88 Beretta which used the Getrag had the HTOB.
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gerryg
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Report this Post12-10-2014 04:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for gerrygClick Here to Email gerrygSend a Private Message to gerrygEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hello I'm back, finally. I got a new bracket for the slave and have everything installed back. I tried the method that Arns85GT recommended but was unsure of all the steps, so I made me a pump with the master cylinder cap and all, but also not sure of all the steps needed. OK, do I need to pressurize, press the clutch in, and open and close the bleeder screw all at the same time? Or can I get by with just pressing the clutch in and pressurizing the master cylinder. Thanks for your input ahead of time
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