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88 gt won't shift into any gear by the99camaro
Started on: 11-13-2014 05:54 PM
Replies: 23 (339 views)
Last post by: the99camaro on 12-12-2014 09:17 AM
the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
well I've been working on this car for almost 2 years on and off I got it in a junkyard without knowing what was wrong with it. I soon found out the clutch was toast but the engine ran so I began just rebuilding everything since it was all apart. I just got everything back in the car engine fires right up but can't shift gears it seems to be stuck in neutral, I don't know that much about manual transmissions but I've done my research on here and I've gotten a new Rodney master cylinder and slave cylinder and bled several times. I have an inch or more travel from my slave and pedal feels really good and it isn't bent. I've included a bunch of pictures so you can assess the situation as best as you can. My clutch fork isn't bent and moves freely the throwout bearing sleeve is intact and not cracked. The clutch,pressure plate, throwout bearing and flywheel are all brand new I'll include a link to the kit I bought. Also when your in the car using the shifter you can move through all the gears or at least it feels like it is but when you let off the clutch nothing happens and will start no matter where you have the shifter. Also I tried shifting the gears with and without the cables connected at the transmission and seems fine but this is where I don't know if something is off because I don't know manuals. the fact I can move the sifter and it has no effect makes me believe something inside is messed up or my other theory is that the pressure plate I got is to stiff for the fiero slave but that's just my thoughts. the clutch disk that was in it when I got it had not one fiber of material left on it so I'm afraid the PO destroyed the transmission trying to shift it with no clutch. The transmission is currently back out of the car and I'm not putting it back in without a new idea of what is wrong let me know what you think sorry for the lengthy post but I'm at a stand still till I fix this and don't want to be taking the transmission out a million times.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XTR...&hash=item5d3f5fb694









[This message has been edited by the99camaro (edited 11-13-2014).]

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mcguiver3
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mcguiver3Send a Private Message to mcguiver3Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can you run it through the gears now that it's out of the car?
Was there fluid in it when it was in the car?
TOB looks like it's installed correctly on the sleeve and clutch rod fingers.
Was the clutch disk installed correctly?
Was the clutch pedal/arm functioning when the tranny was in the car?
About 3/4 +" movement in the arm on the tranny?
Probably a few more questions if I really stop to think about it.
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
yes with my hand it moves through all the gears smoothly I can move it forward and back push it down move it forward and back then pull it up and move it forward and back not sure which is which gear but I think that is full movement. I will take a video if I have to. Also there was fluid in it, royal purple synchromesh. The clutch pedal felt nice and firm when it was in and slave moved the arm just find back and forth I measured it and had the expected 1 in of rod travel. The clutch I believe can only put in one way unless you force it I didn't have to force it. Also I included pictures of the new throwout bearing it now has a groove in it from where it was contacting the clutch disk I think this is normal but the old one didn't have a groove so maybe not
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Patrick
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

...when your in the car using the shifter you can move through all the gears or at least it feels like it is but when you let off the clutch nothing happens and will start no matter where you have the shifter.


What do you mean "nothing happens" when you also state "will start no matter where you have the shifter"? What is it that "starts"?

 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

The transmission is currently back out of the car...


With the tranny out of the car, it should be relatively easy to determine how the positions of the shifter and select linkages affects the connection between the input shaft and the tranny output. You should at least be able to determine if the gears are engaging.
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can get in the car and push in the clutch start the car and let the clutch pedal out and the motor just keeps running, put clutch in shift gear shift to any other gear let out clutch engine keeps running car doesn't move. Shift into lets say 4th start the car and it starts fine even though it's in 4th. What do you want me to do to check if gears are engaging
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I figured out what you ment, about engaging gears I can clearly feel the gears engaging when I go from neutral to each gear I can hear and feel that it has engaged by spinning the shaft with my hand

[This message has been edited by the99camaro (edited 11-13-2014).]

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Patrick
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

I can get in the car and push in the clutch start the car and let the clutch pedal out and the motor just keeps running, put clutch in shift gear shift to any other gear let out clutch engine keeps running car doesn't move.


 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

I figured out what you ment, about engaging gears I can clearly feel the gears engaging when I go from neutral to each gear I can hear and feel that it has engaged by spinning the shaft with my hand


It appears then that when the tranny was in the car, the two linkages on the tranny were not being moved correctly by the shifter and/or select cables when you shifted gears using the shifter in the console.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-13-2014).]

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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm starting to believe that you are correct, which is making feel pretty stupid but I had to be sure nothing was wrong inside also what do you think about the groove on the throwout bearing is that normal
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Patrick
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Report this Post11-13-2014 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

what do you think about the groove on the throwout bearing is that normal


Are you referring to the faint line around the face of the bearing where it makes contact with the fingers of the pressure plate? If so, looks normal to me... but I wouldn't say I'm an expert on clutch components!
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
here is a the picture you can see it best it has a groove from where the part that sticks out of the throw out bearing is contacting the friction plate i'll take another picture to better illustrate
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 07:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the old throwout bearing didn't have this groove, here are the pictures of course you have to imagine the pressure plate is there but this illustrates how that groove got there and I don't think it should be hitting maybe I do have my friction plate on backwards it has no markings on it as to which way it should go but I thought it was the right way

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Patrick
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Report this Post11-13-2014 07:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

here is a the picture you can see it best it has a groove from where the part that sticks out of the throw out bearing is contacting the friction plate


Oh... there!

Hmmm... I'd have to say that looks a little odd.
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
just for the heck of it I tried putting the disk on the other way and the springs hit and it won't go on flat, goes on real easy the other way which I believe is the correct way but that's also the way where it is hitting, I guess the question now is, is the middle of the throwout bearing supposed to make contact with the clutch disk I'm going to guess no this could also explain why I'm not getting the clutch to disengage. So is the clutch disk or the throwout bearing to blame? They both look the same as the old ones the pressure plate also looks the same
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Report this Post11-13-2014 07:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

...is the middle of the throwout bearing supposed to make contact with the clutch disk


Not a chance. Something is wrong.
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 08:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think the friction disk is wrong or a little off, the old disk the center shaft is flat on the pressure plate side and sticks out on the motor side, it is the opposite on the new one when installing it the correct way the flat part is towards the motor and it's sticking out on the pressure plate side causing the throwout bearing to hit.
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Domtech
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Report this Post11-13-2014 08:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DomtechClick Here to Email DomtechSend a Private Message to DomtechEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I haven't seen this asked so I'll ask it. Did you get the right slave cylinder for that transmission? If the push rod is too long then it would have this affect.
Removing the slave cylinder from the transmission and checking if the car moves when you start it would rule out the pedal, master, and slave.
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Report this Post11-13-2014 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

just for the heck of it I tried putting the disk on the other way and the springs hit and it won't go on flat, goes on real easy the other way which I believe is the correct way but that's also the way where it is hitting, I guess the question now is, is the middle of the throwout bearing supposed to make contact with the clutch disk I'm going to guess no this could also explain why I'm not getting the clutch to disengage. So is the clutch disk or the throwout bearing to blame? They both look the same as the old ones the pressure plate also looks the same


Sorry I am late to the party,, and I don't get what the problem is.. Why don't you assemble the clutch disk, pressure plate, and throw-out bearing in the right order and see if anything is going to hit anything else?
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post11-13-2014 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Was it an absolute PITA to pop out the axle cups from the transmission? It should have been. If you didn't have them fully installed your transmission could be working fine but the axles weren't engaged on the splines.

With the tranny out rotate the parts with the transmission in the various gears including reverse. Make sure there is positive engagement of the gears. It should be pretty easy to tell if the tranny is working (most likely) or totally blown apart inside (not likely unless you hear many nasty nasty noises when the tranny is rotating)
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 10:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
gall I'm pretty sure I received the wrong friction disk with the kit I bought when it is installed the throwout bearing hits the shaft in the middle it needs to be flat against the disk it isn't and is hitting the throwout bearing and I'm 100% sure I got the right slave cylinder from Rodney.
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-13-2014 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

the99camaro

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phonedawgs the axles have come out pretty easy with a tiny amount of pressure from a pry bar it was this easy all three times i've taken them out. I can say when the axles were in before I put the wheels back on and it was still jacked up they did spin when I started the car but like they should when the car is in neutral I could stop them with my hands
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the99camaro
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Report this Post11-14-2014 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a new friction disc ordered, I will report back with the results. Thank you for all of your help with this

[This message has been edited by the99camaro (edited 11-14-2014).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post11-14-2014 11:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

phonedawgs the axles have come out pretty easy with a tiny amount of pressure from a pry bar it was this easy all three times i've taken them out. I can say when the axles were in before I put the wheels back on and it was still jacked up they did spin when I started the car but like they should when the car is in neutral I could stop them with my hands


Remember however due to the action of the differential, if you only stop one wheel, the other wheel will just spin twice as fast. So if that was your only test, my guess is that everything actually was working.

Also however if the transmission is in neutral, and both wheels are off the ground, it is not unusual to get some rotation of the tires due to the spinning oil in the transmission turning the output shaft and thus the differential and thus the wheels. In this case both wheels can be stopped by hand while the engine is rotating.

You should be able to determine if your transmission is indeed going into gear with just spinning the input shaft with your hands and seeing what the two axle shafts are doing.

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Imnuts
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Report this Post11-14-2014 02:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ImnutsSend a Private Message to ImnutsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by the99camaro:

I don't think it should be hitting maybe I do have my friction plate on backwards it has no markings on it as to which way it should go but I thought it was the right way


Are you saying the throw-out bearing contacts the shaft of the friction disk after it passes through the pressure plate? There is no part of the bearing that should come in contact with the disk when it passes through the pressure plate. Of course that's hard to tell unless the pressure plate is compressed. It looking like your on the right track. But the inner shaft on the bearing looks a little longer than normal. Here is a link with a picture of the throw-out bearing and I have not seen one with a grove.
Good luck!

http://www.stylintrucks.com...timkentm614069-.aspx


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the99camaro
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Report this Post12-12-2014 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for the99camaroClick Here to Email the99camaroSend a Private Message to the99camaroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just to update this I got a new clutch disk and finally got around to putting it in and re installing the trans back in the car. Everything is working fine now nothing is contacting and it shifts fine hurray lol.
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