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Car won't start after being driven a while. by hcforde
Started on: 10-22-2014 01:41 PM
Replies: 15 (1093 views)
Last post by: hcforde on 10-23-2014 06:49 PM
hcforde
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Report this Post10-22-2014 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have a 1986 2.5L 5 speed that just started the weird problem. A few days ago I had stopped the car to go into a store and when I came back out it would not start. It was like the battery was dead but I could turn on everything electrical. After letting it sit for about 20 minutes it started back up like there was nothing wrong. Then yesterday I was going down the road and it loses power on acceleration while in gear. I manage to get it off the road and park it, turn it off, and then it wont start again for about 20 minutes. After that I drove it home about 10 miles no problem. Turned the car off and again it wont start for about 20 minutes. The issues start after the car is warm!

Any ideas or solutions if you have had this happen?
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mrfred8
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Report this Post10-22-2014 02:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfred8Click Here to visit mrfred8's HomePageSend a Private Message to mrfred8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sounds like it could be the solenoid in the starter going bad.
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tuggajb
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Report this Post10-22-2014 02:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for tuggajbClick Here to Email tuggajbSend a Private Message to tuggajbEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How old is the battery?
When I have electrical prob I think battery if over year old cheapest thing to change (could be bad cell when warm)
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-22-2014 03:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Not a solenoid or battery problem. Neither of these will stop a running engine.

Did the engine crank when this problem was occurring?

Was your check engine light on when this problem was occurring?

Did the starter make any noises at all when you turned the key to start?

If the starter was cranking the engine but the engine was not starting, did that tach raise to 200 rpm during cranking and then go back to zero when you released the key from START to RUN?
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hcforde
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Report this Post10-22-2014 03:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As originally posted. I had stopped the car to go into a store and when I came back out it would not start. The car would not turn over there was no sound from the starter. It was like the battery was dead(as far as the starter was concerned) but I could turn on everything electrical. After letting it sit (IDLE) for about 20 minutes it started back up like there was nothing wrong.

Then yesterday I was going down the road and it loses power on acceleration while in gear. I manage to get it off the road and park it, turn it off, and then it wont start again for about 20 minutes. After that I drove it home about 10 miles no problem. Turned the car off and again it wont start for about 20 minutes. The issues start after the car is warm

NOPE!!! the starter does nothing when this happens, lights, radio, wipers etc. all work. After a time period, I can turn the key and the starter comes to life and cranks the engine and I can dirve.

[This message has been edited by hcforde (edited 10-22-2014).]

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mrfred8
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Report this Post10-22-2014 05:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfred8Click Here to visit mrfred8's HomePageSend a Private Message to mrfred8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.

[This message has been edited by mrfred8 (edited 10-22-2014).]

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jimbolaya
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Report this Post10-22-2014 06:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Heat soak on the starter. I had this issue with my 4 cylinder, years ago. After I installed the third, cheap, Advance Auto starter, I wrapped the starter in one of those heat blankets, and never had the issue again. the brushes inside the starter will swell when over heated, and then when it cools down, it will start again.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimbolaya (edited 10-22-2014).]

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lordbg0205
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Report this Post10-22-2014 06:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lordbg0205Click Here to Email lordbg0205Send a Private Message to lordbg0205Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Check out what phonedawgz is sayin, not starter heat soak if the car quit while running.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-22-2014 07:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I can't think of anything that would connect an intermittent starter with a one time bad running engine.

It sounds like the starter not working is the more common problem and the one to look at first. I'm not big on trying to fix something that may or may not be broke. I think that can cause new troubles and then they are on top of the original problem.

The ignition switch, or the clutch switch or the wiring that runs between the two, or the only one connection between the clutch switch and the starter solenoid, or the starter solenoid, or the starter itself could be causing the non-start problem.

To troubleshoot the problem you will need a 12v test light. The 12v test light will allow you to see how far the starter signal gets so you can narrow it down to a single component. It however means you have to wait till the trouble re-occurs to troubleshoot it.

When the trouble happens - clip the test light alligator clip to the starter where the smaller purple wire attaches to it. Then ground the probe tip and turn the key to start. If the light comes on but the starter doesn't function, the problem is going to be either the starter or solenoid. If the light doesn't come on, and of course the starter doesn't operate then it will be wiring or switches up to the starter.

If you do determine it is the wiring then look at the clutch switch under the dash. You can tell which switch is for the starter because it has a large yellow wire coming from the ignition switch, and a large purple wire running back to the engine. With the test light, this time with the alligator clip to ground and the probe tip touching the wire of the switch, see if you have power coming to the clutch switch on the Yellow wire while turning the key to start. You should. Then with the clutch depressed and the key turned to start do you have power on the Purple wire. Again you should.

Power on the Yellow, but not passed on to the Purple wire with the clutch depressed would indicate a bad clutch switch.

Purple wire at the starter solenoid


Clutch switch with the larger Yellow and large Purple wires


Fiero starter wiring


Harbor 12v test light $3.99 - For most troubleshooting jobs, better than a meter.

http://www.harborfreight.co...it-tester-30779.html
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jimbolaya
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Report this Post10-22-2014 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lordbg0205:

Check out what phonedawgz is sayin, not starter heat soak if the car quit while running.


But he didn't say it it quit while running. He says it happens when he shuts off the car after it is warm, and then tries to restart it. He mentions, of one time, when it was loosing power, while running, but it did not cut off. That could be an entirely unrelated issue. Hey, I'm not one to depend on for diagnosis, but what he describes is exactly what I experienced when I had heat soak issues. YMMV

Jim

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mrfred8
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Report this Post10-22-2014 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for mrfred8Click Here to visit mrfred8's HomePageSend a Private Message to mrfred8Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jimbolaya:


But he didn't say it it quit while running. He says it happens when he shuts off the car after it is warm, and then tries to restart it. He mentions, of one time, when it was loosing power, while running, but it did not cut off. That could be an entirely unrelated issue. Hey, I'm not one to depend on for diagnosis, but what he describes is exactly what I experienced when I had heat soak issues. YMMV

Jim


ditto
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post10-22-2014 11:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you find that you have power to the starter solenoid when this problem occurs
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jimbolaya
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Report this Post10-23-2014 09:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jimbolayaClick Here to Email jimbolayaSend a Private Message to jimbolayaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

If you find that you have power to the starter solenoid when this problem occurs


Great video. Thanks for posting that.

Jim

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theogre
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Report this Post10-23-2014 11:53 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe starter, cables, etc. Maybe not...

Missing heat shield(s) will kill the starter and/or solenoid and Can do as top post said.
L4 Exhaust had shield attach to pipe but many have fallen off and lost.

Buy or make new shield.

Shield does not need to be pretty to do the job. And Air gap between new shield and starter is good.
Shield will defect IR from exhaust and air gap will insulate.

I made a very cheap one from scape Aluminum flashing. (This is for auto trans... stick is a bit different.)
Is big enough to protect starter and solenoid from pipe and catalyst.


Drill the hole then mount loosely (Don't bend under recall shield now.)
rub the new shield against shim ear. This give mark on aluminum.
take off the shield
cut a slot just big enough so shim go into shield. Cut w/ utility knife.
mount new shield. If needed bend the shim ear a bit just so can't fall out.

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

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TopNotch
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Report this Post10-23-2014 12:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Before you do anything else, make sure your battery connections are tight. A loose one can supply enough power to run accessories, but fail when you try to start. Also, a loose one, losing contact while driving, will feel like a loss of power.
Been there, done that.
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hcforde
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Report this Post10-23-2014 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hcfordeClick Here to Email hcfordeSend a Private Message to hcfordeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TopNotch:

Before you do anything else, make sure your battery connections are tight. A loose one can supply enough power to run accessories, but fail when you try to start. Also, a loose one, losing contact while driving, will feel like a loss of power.
Been there, done that.


But it would seem that with heat the cables would have better contact than when cold because of the expansion that heat brings. Things begin to fail when the car has been driven considerable miles (30-40 miles).

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