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Different size factory front sway bars by sardonyx247
Started on: 10-15-2014 05:14 AM
Replies: 94 (1593 views)
Last post by: jim94 on 10-22-2014 12:47 AM
sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-15-2014 05:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Just to add info to the forum.
This counts for 84-87s
Notchbacks have a 1/32 inch thicker sway bar than fastbacks.
Year doesn't matter. Just FYI.

I checked alot of Fieros in the yard and this is what I found.

------------------
"DRIVE IT LIKE A FIERO"
'84 Fiero, engine to be determined '87 Duke (Sold)
'87 Quad 4 H.O.
'87Blue GT 3.4L Swap Completed!!!!!!!! Boosted!!!!!!!
^^^^ Now in the Construction Zone^^^^
Las Vegas Fiero Club Parts/Sales/Service/Club
Fiero Road Club Of Northern Nevada

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Report this Post10-15-2014 10:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think you will find that 1/32" is well within the tolerances allowed in the raw material. GM would have no interest in complicating the assembly process to that extent.
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sardonyx247
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When I checked over 40 Fieros, I don't think my measuments is a fluke.
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Report this Post10-15-2014 03:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Same part number from 84-87.

When you say notchback vs fastback, it may be better to compare years. Fastback was available in 86-88 ('87 for this suspension).
So... maybe GM had a new supplier in 86 & 87 vs 84-85.

Did you document year and body style, along with engine? (I know you say year doesn't matter, but part number is the same, so it would be more likely that GM had a different supplier for a given period of time).

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 10-15-2014).]

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Report this Post10-15-2014 04:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:

Same part number from 84-87.


Okay, now I've got to speak up.

The '84 front sway bar (I've got two) is definitely thicker than '86 (have two fastbacks) and '87 (notchie), although in retrospect I might not have measured the '87... possibly went by its appearance instead. This was looked into about five years ago when I was installing a front sway bar on the back of my '84. (I don't know about '85 as that's the only year Fiero I've never owned.)

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-15-2014).]

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Report this Post10-15-2014 04:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Okay, now I've got to speak up.




I Looked up the part number in the P22... same number for 84-87 Fieros. GM says they are interchangeable for those years. Heck, GM could have had multiple suppliers for this part and one car could have a different size from another, even though they were next to each other on the line. 1/32" isn't a whole lot of difference.
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Report this Post10-15-2014 04:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:

1/32" isn't a whole lot of difference.


Keep in mind that's not my figure. I suspect the difference was more than that, but I don't remember the actual measurement. I do recall though that it was quite noticeable when looking at the two different sway bars side by side.

Just out of curiosity, I'll try and find my old post(s) about this as I'm sure I've mentioned all this here previously.
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Report this Post10-15-2014 04:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Just to complicate things...

Any chance that Fieros equipped with the WS6 suspension package have the thicker sway bars? I have seen this mentioned here previously, but as with everything we read... it needs to be verified.
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Report this Post10-15-2014 06:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

When I checked over 40 Fieros, I don't think my measurements is a fluke.


I don't think your measurements are fluke either.....but you can't draw the conclusion that there were 2 different sway bars. There was one sway bar that was built by different people at different times, and GM accepted what they got.....who knows how tight the specs were for that part?
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Report this Post10-15-2014 06:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for notwohornsClick Here to Email notwohornsSend a Private Message to notwohornsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
GM has included two or more different part numbers into one number in the past. In fact, GM still does it
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Report this Post10-15-2014 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by notwohorns:

GM has included two or more different part numbers into one number in the past. In fact, GM still does it


In that case there would be evidence of the two original part numbers......but in this case there is not (according to Jaski).
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-16-2014 07:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I checked EVERY Fiero we have in the yard, and EVERY year 84 -87 it IS the notchbacks have the thicker bar, and the fastbacks have the smaller one.
I made sure to check every year, on both styles, minus no fastbacks in 84-85. At first I thought year, but no. I checked well 86-87 fastbacks ALL of them have the same bar, and ALL notchbacks have the different bar. I checked with a micro meter. I checked EVERY single one we have in the yard. 84-87 notchbacks, and every GT we have both years.
I don't care about part numbers, this is what I found. Not one was off, not one had a different one from the body style I speak of.

I heard long ago the 84s had a bigger one, I decided to check one day, I found what I posted.
It bugged me one was different, so I checked them all to see why.

Part of the point of the thread is, if you add a stock front bar on the back, use the GT on the back and a notchback on the front.
I won't steer you wrong, I double and even triple checked to figure it out. It turned out to be body style, not year. It amazed me too.
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sardonyx247
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sardonyx247

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quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


I don't think your measurements are fluke either.....but you can't draw the conclusion that there were 2 different sway bars. There was one sway bar that was built by different people at different times, and GM accepted what they got.....who knows how tight the specs were for that part?


Not one notchback had the smaller bar, all had the bigger one.
Not one GT had the bigger bar, they all had the smaller one.
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Report this Post10-16-2014 07:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


In that case there would be evidence of the two original part numbers......but in this case there is not (according to Jaski).


I got my info from the parts book. They have different part numbers for various steering racks and springs, but the sway bar is the same for 84-87.

I am guessing that in the case of the '84, they probably switched manufacturers and there is a slight size difference. Not uncommon. For GM to install different sway bars on purpose, there would need to be separate part numbers, otherwise no one would be able to say "this is a Fastback sway bar" when working on the line. (Just thinking about the install process... how would Pontiac differentiate between them, when building Fieros as they come down the line?)

Oh, and does the 1/32" of an inch mean anything when it comes to handling? Could there be a difference in metal to account for the size difference while the bar reacts the same?

And.. GM could have done some screwy things and not put it into the parts book... just saying.... We have to look at everything... we are seeing a size difference and yet the parts book doesn't support that. So... next we have to think about the build line, would they have had two different swaybars on the line? Etc... How did GM build Fieros? Did they build various models at the same time... all GTs for a week and V6 coupes the next, etc...

[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 10-16-2014).]

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sardonyx247
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ok here is good example 350 blocks
same part number
4 bolt main
2 bolt main
enough said
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post10-16-2014 07:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

enough said


There isn't a conclusion....

It might help if you gave us your measurements for Fastback vs Notchback bar and others could use those to compare to what they have. Also, where on the bar are you measuring? Are you measuring all the way around the bar (to account for variances with manufacturing and roundness), or just the same accessible area?
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sardonyx247
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Why is this so hard to believe?
I don't care anymore, beleive me or not. I checked every year every body style. We have more Fieros than anyone out there.
I'm done.
Check it for your self.
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sardonyx247

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I just wanted to add info for the forum.
But not good enough.
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jaskispyder
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:34 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Why is this so hard to believe?
I don't care anymore, beleive me or not. I checked every year every body style. We have more Fieros than anyone out there.
I'm done.
Check it for your self.


You made a claim and then don't provide the data to back it up. Am I skeptical? Yup. Wouldn't you be, if I said that every Fiero in Nevada 1/32" shorter than all other Fieros and I said, "measure it yourself"?


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quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

When I checked over 40 Fieros, I don't think my measuments is a fluke.


I think it is more amazing that out found a yard that had more than 40 Fiero's! Let's assume that you did go out and measure them- thank you for the effort! I believe that you measured what you measured. I just wonder why GM would do this. I wonder how much of a difference 1/32 would make? Could it just be thicker paint. Would the difference be perceptible in daily driving or even the race track.....
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How about this.
Disprove me!!!
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Ken_86gtClick Here to Email Ken_86gtSend a Private Message to Ken_86gtEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could you please post the measurement that you obtained for each bar and where you measured it. I am sure that there members here that can then post what they find on their cars. I don't have a mic myself....
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:46 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

How about this.
Disprove me!!!


So, I am guessing you don't have the measurement data. That is fine, just say it. Geez. Why so defensive? If I wanted to replicate your work, it would be helpful to know how you measured, the condition of the bar (rust here in the Midwest vs dry desert), etc. You made the claim, yet you want me to disprove it? Sorry, it doesn't work that way and you know that.

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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry I am at home at not at the shop.
Disprove me I challenge you. I really challenge you!
Are you up to it?
No hearsay, real measurements. I encourage EVERYONE to post the size of thier swaybars.
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sardonyx247
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sardonyx247

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quote
Originally posted by Ken_86gt:


I think it is more amazing that out found a yard that had more than 40 Fiero's! Let's assume that you did go out and measure them- thank you for the effort! I believe that you measured what you measured. I just wonder why GM would do this. I wonder how much of a difference 1/32 would make? Could it just be thicker paint. Would the difference be perceptible in daily driving or even the race track.....


The sad part is we used to have over 100 Fieros in the yard. most got crushed, not my choice. All rust free too.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-16-2014).]

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Report this Post10-16-2014 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Sorry I am at home at not at the shop.
Disprove me I challenge you. I really challenge you!
Are you up to it?
No hearsay, real measurements. I encourage EVERYONE to post the size of thier swaybars.


As I said before... what part are you measuring... where should people measure... x number of inches from bushing on driver's side, etc. When you are talking about 1/32", it would be best to make sure the measurement location is the same.

Do you have your measurements or not?
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sardonyx247
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I measured in between the bushings in the center of the bar.
As I said before I am at home and not at the shop. This will not change tonight.

Go outside and measure yours, post what you find.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-16-2014).]

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Report this Post10-16-2014 09:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Go outside and measure yours, post what you find.



No Fieros currently, plus my last one was coated in undercoating.

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sardonyx247
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Both mine here have an aftermarket 1" swaybar, so we will wait untill tomorrow.
Everyone please post your findings.
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Report this Post10-16-2014 10:04 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

Both mine here have an aftermarket 1" swaybar, so we will wait untill tomorrow.
Everyone please post your findings.


Good Idea!....I know the subject is 84 - 87 Fieros, but I'll contribute what I can. I just ran out to the garage and got on the creeper. I have a stock Formula....pretty sure the whole suspension is original. (My calipers are Chinese, however...so we have to worry about that)

Front bar is 1.085"
Rear bar is .875"

[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 10-16-2014).]

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Report this Post10-16-2014 11:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for imabuzzkillSend a Private Message to imabuzzkillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The burden of proof always is on the positive claim.
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quote
Originally posted by jaskispyder:


No Fieros currently, plus my last one was coated in undercoating.


If you don't have a Fiero, what do you even care, just trying to push buttons.?.?
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Report this Post10-16-2014 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:


If you don't have a Fiero, what do you even care, just trying to push buttons.?.?


Now THERE is a cheap shot.

He's been on here since 2002, 15,000 posts....and you think what?
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Report this Post10-16-2014 05:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lambo nutSend a Private Message to Lambo nutEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Gall757:


Now THERE is a cheap shot.

He's been on here since 2002, 15,000 posts....and you think what?


Got to kind of agree with sardonyx247. If one doesn't actually HAVE a Fiero, then why the Hell is one on a Fiero forum?

Kevin

[This message has been edited by Lambo nut (edited 10-16-2014).]

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Report this Post10-16-2014 05:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:


Got to kind of agree with sardonyx247. If one doesn't actually HAVE a Fiero, then why the Hell is one on a Fiero forum?

Kevin



I suppose he has had many of them over the years...I have read accounts of quite a few of them. If you sell your Lambo....do you want to leave the site?
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
First of all, why don't you ask everyone on here to "prove" thier posts.
I try to add info and contribute to the forum and am told I am wrong with no facts to back up thier claim.
Not like I guessed, I even said how I did it all and still told to prove it, what does it matter what I type, it would still be wrong.
After the treament in this post I am thinking of leaving the forum, people don't seem to want my help or info here.

Now to the facts
86 87 Fastback swaybars 7/8"
84-87 Notchback swabars 29/32"

I checked a WS6 fastback and a non WS6 fastback
I checked a WS6 notchback and a non WS6 notchback
I check a 4 cyl and a V6 notchbacks
Above "a" = many
And I checked every year
I made sure to cover all baises

Now to jaskispyder, you know where to stick that swaybar, since the notchback is bigger use that one.
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Report this Post10-16-2014 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ericjon262Send a Private Message to ericjon262Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

How about this.
Disprove me!!!


careful, ask for some people to prove you wrong and they will just start calling you a troll every chance they get... ask me how I know....

[This message has been edited by ericjon262 (edited 10-16-2014).]

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jaskispyder
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Report this Post10-17-2014 07:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You came on here making some statement about different sized sway bars. I said that the GM PARTS BOOK doesn't support that. I asked for your data and information so others can replicate your tests. You get all pissy and defensive and tell me to prove you wrong. What are you, 10 years old? You made the claim... back it up. Geez. In the real world, this is how things work. If you observations are true, then you should be happy to give us your data. When you get all defensive, it only supports the idea that you may be hiding something, or that you really didn't check all the various Fieros.

On top of your pissy attitude, you want to call me out on not CURRENTLY owning a Fiero? WTF? I have owned and worked on many, many fieros... all years, t-top and convertible . I was an active member of the Michigan Fiero Club, I also was an active member of fiero.org, which was (and sort of is still) around before this forum. I wrote up many tech articles on Fiero repair for the newsletters (you know, that way of communicating before the internet became so popular). So don't give me that BS about not CURRENTLY owning a Fiero... that only supports my belief that you really are 10 years old. Geez.

 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:

First of all, why don't you ask everyone on here to "prove" thier posts.
I try to add info and contribute to the forum and am told I am wrong with no facts to back up thier claim.
Not like I guessed, I even said how I did it all and still told to prove it, what does it matter what I type, it would still be wrong.
After the treament in this post I am thinking of leaving the forum, people don't seem to want my help or info here.

Now to the facts
86 87 Fastback swaybars 7/8"
84-87 Notchback swabars 29/32"

I checked a WS6 fastback and a non WS6 fastback
I checked a WS6 notchback and a non WS6 notchback
I check a 4 cyl and a V6 notchbacks
Above "a" = many
And I checked every year
I made sure to cover all baises

Now to jaskispyder, you know where to stick that swaybar, since the notchback is bigger use that one.


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jaskispyder
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Report this Post10-17-2014 07:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jaskispyderSend a Private Message to jaskispyderEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lambo nut:


Got to kind of agree with sardonyx247. If one doesn't actually HAVE a Fiero, then why the Hell is one on a Fiero forum?

Kevin


As a replica owner (I assume based on your avatar), I should ask you the same question.

You guys are funny.... as if having a Fiero in-hand, gives them exclusive access to this forum. And any knowledge from past ownership is no longer valid... as if Fieros have changed over the last few months since I haven't owned one and my knowledge is no longer useful.

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TONY_C
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Report this Post10-17-2014 09:06 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TONY_CSend a Private Message to TONY_CEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This happens all too often on this forum...someone posts some info and it seems like an innocuous post and the next thing you know there are 2 pages of responses, mostly argumentative.

DO YOU GUYS REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ARGUING OVER 1/32 OF AN INCH? 0.031". Does anyone here think that you could detect the difference THIRTY ONE THOUSANDTHS of an inch would make on a Fiero suspension?

Jeez...aren't there more important things to be concerned with?
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