I think you will find that 1/32" is well within the tolerances allowed in the raw material. GM would have no interest in complicating the assembly process to that extent.
When you say notchback vs fastback, it may be better to compare years. Fastback was available in 86-88 ('87 for this suspension). So... maybe GM had a new supplier in 86 & 87 vs 84-85.
Did you document year and body style, along with engine? (I know you say year doesn't matter, but part number is the same, so it would be more likely that GM had a different supplier for a given period of time).
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 10-15-2014).]
The '84 front sway bar (I've got two) is definitely thicker than '86 (have two fastbacks) and '87 (notchie), although in retrospect I might not have measured the '87... possibly went by its appearance instead. This was looked into about five years ago when I was installing a front sway bar on the back of my '84. (I don't know about '85 as that's the only year Fiero I've never owned.)
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-15-2014).]
I Looked up the part number in the P22... same number for 84-87 Fieros. GM says they are interchangeable for those years. Heck, GM could have had multiple suppliers for this part and one car could have a different size from another, even though they were next to each other on the line. 1/32" isn't a whole lot of difference.
Keep in mind that's not my figure. I suspect the difference was more than that, but I don't remember the actual measurement. I do recall though that it was quite noticeable when looking at the two different sway bars side by side.
Just out of curiosity, I'll try and find my old post(s) about this as I'm sure I've mentioned all this here previously.
Any chance that Fieros equipped with the WS6 suspension package have the thicker sway bars? I have seen this mentioned here previously, but as with everything we read... it needs to be verified.
When I checked over 40 Fieros, I don't think my measurements is a fluke.
I don't think your measurements are fluke either.....but you can't draw the conclusion that there were 2 different sway bars. There was one sway bar that was built by different people at different times, and GM accepted what they got.....who knows how tight the specs were for that part?
I checked EVERY Fiero we have in the yard, and EVERY year 84 -87 it IS the notchbacks have the thicker bar, and the fastbacks have the smaller one. I made sure to check every year, on both styles, minus no fastbacks in 84-85. At first I thought year, but no. I checked well 86-87 fastbacks ALL of them have the same bar, and ALL notchbacks have the different bar. I checked with a micro meter. I checked EVERY single one we have in the yard. 84-87 notchbacks, and every GT we have both years. I don't care about part numbers, this is what I found. Not one was off, not one had a different one from the body style I speak of.
I heard long ago the 84s had a bigger one, I decided to check one day, I found what I posted. It bugged me one was different, so I checked them all to see why.
Part of the point of the thread is, if you add a stock front bar on the back, use the GT on the back and a notchback on the front. I won't steer you wrong, I double and even triple checked to figure it out. It turned out to be body style, not year. It amazed me too.
I don't think your measurements are fluke either.....but you can't draw the conclusion that there were 2 different sway bars. There was one sway bar that was built by different people at different times, and GM accepted what they got.....who knows how tight the specs were for that part?
Not one notchback had the smaller bar, all had the bigger one. Not one GT had the bigger bar, they all had the smaller one.
In that case there would be evidence of the two original part numbers......but in this case there is not (according to Jaski).
I got my info from the parts book. They have different part numbers for various steering racks and springs, but the sway bar is the same for 84-87.
I am guessing that in the case of the '84, they probably switched manufacturers and there is a slight size difference. Not uncommon. For GM to install different sway bars on purpose, there would need to be separate part numbers, otherwise no one would be able to say "this is a Fastback sway bar" when working on the line. (Just thinking about the install process... how would Pontiac differentiate between them, when building Fieros as they come down the line?)
Oh, and does the 1/32" of an inch mean anything when it comes to handling? Could there be a difference in metal to account for the size difference while the bar reacts the same?
And.. GM could have done some screwy things and not put it into the parts book... just saying.... We have to look at everything... we are seeing a size difference and yet the parts book doesn't support that. So... next we have to think about the build line, would they have had two different swaybars on the line? Etc... How did GM build Fieros? Did they build various models at the same time... all GTs for a week and V6 coupes the next, etc...
[This message has been edited by jaskispyder (edited 10-16-2014).]
It might help if you gave us your measurements for Fastback vs Notchback bar and others could use those to compare to what they have. Also, where on the bar are you measuring? Are you measuring all the way around the bar (to account for variances with manufacturing and roundness), or just the same accessible area?
Why is this so hard to believe? I don't care anymore, beleive me or not. I checked every year every body style. We have more Fieros than anyone out there. I'm done. Check it for your self.
Why is this so hard to believe? I don't care anymore, beleive me or not. I checked every year every body style. We have more Fieros than anyone out there. I'm done. Check it for your self.
You made a claim and then don't provide the data to back it up. Am I skeptical? Yup. Wouldn't you be, if I said that every Fiero in Nevada 1/32" shorter than all other Fieros and I said, "measure it yourself"?
When I checked over 40 Fieros, I don't think my measuments is a fluke.
I think it is more amazing that out found a yard that had more than 40 Fiero's! Let's assume that you did go out and measure them- thank you for the effort! I believe that you measured what you measured. I just wonder why GM would do this. I wonder how much of a difference 1/32 would make? Could it just be thicker paint. Would the difference be perceptible in daily driving or even the race track.....
Could you please post the measurement that you obtained for each bar and where you measured it. I am sure that there members here that can then post what they find on their cars. I don't have a mic myself....
So, I am guessing you don't have the measurement data. That is fine, just say it. Geez. Why so defensive? If I wanted to replicate your work, it would be helpful to know how you measured, the condition of the bar (rust here in the Midwest vs dry desert), etc. You made the claim, yet you want me to disprove it? Sorry, it doesn't work that way and you know that.
Sorry I am at home at not at the shop. Disprove me I challenge you. I really challenge you! Are you up to it? No hearsay, real measurements. I encourage EVERYONE to post the size of thier swaybars.
I think it is more amazing that out found a yard that had more than 40 Fiero's! Let's assume that you did go out and measure them- thank you for the effort! I believe that you measured what you measured. I just wonder why GM would do this. I wonder how much of a difference 1/32 would make? Could it just be thicker paint. Would the difference be perceptible in daily driving or even the race track.....
The sad part is we used to have over 100 Fieros in the yard. most got crushed, not my choice. All rust free too.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-16-2014).]
Sorry I am at home at not at the shop. Disprove me I challenge you. I really challenge you! Are you up to it? No hearsay, real measurements. I encourage EVERYONE to post the size of thier swaybars.
As I said before... what part are you measuring... where should people measure... x number of inches from bushing on driver's side, etc. When you are talking about 1/32", it would be best to make sure the measurement location is the same.
Both mine here have an aftermarket 1" swaybar, so we will wait untill tomorrow. Everyone please post your findings.
Good Idea!....I know the subject is 84 - 87 Fieros, but I'll contribute what I can. I just ran out to the garage and got on the creeper. I have a stock Formula....pretty sure the whole suspension is original. (My calipers are Chinese, however...so we have to worry about that)
Front bar is 1.085" Rear bar is .875"
[This message has been edited by Gall757 (edited 10-16-2014).]
Got to kind of agree with sardonyx247. If one doesn't actually HAVE a Fiero, then why the Hell is one on a Fiero forum?
Kevin
I suppose he has had many of them over the years...I have read accounts of quite a few of them. If you sell your Lambo....do you want to leave the site?
First of all, why don't you ask everyone on here to "prove" thier posts. I try to add info and contribute to the forum and am told I am wrong with no facts to back up thier claim. Not like I guessed, I even said how I did it all and still told to prove it, what does it matter what I type, it would still be wrong. After the treament in this post I am thinking of leaving the forum, people don't seem to want my help or info here.
Now to the facts 86 87 Fastback swaybars 7/8" 84-87 Notchback swabars 29/32"
I checked a WS6 fastback and a non WS6 fastback I checked a WS6 notchback and a non WS6 notchback I check a 4 cyl and a V6 notchbacks Above "a" = many And I checked every year I made sure to cover all baises
Now to jaskispyder, you know where to stick that swaybar, since the notchback is bigger use that one.
You came on here making some statement about different sized sway bars. I said that the GM PARTS BOOK doesn't support that. I asked for your data and information so others can replicate your tests. You get all pissy and defensive and tell me to prove you wrong. What are you, 10 years old? You made the claim... back it up. Geez. In the real world, this is how things work. If you observations are true, then you should be happy to give us your data. When you get all defensive, it only supports the idea that you may be hiding something, or that you really didn't check all the various Fieros.
On top of your pissy attitude, you want to call me out on not CURRENTLY owning a Fiero? WTF? I have owned and worked on many, many fieros... all years, t-top and convertible . I was an active member of the Michigan Fiero Club, I also was an active member of fiero.org, which was (and sort of is still) around before this forum. I wrote up many tech articles on Fiero repair for the newsletters (you know, that way of communicating before the internet became so popular). So don't give me that BS about not CURRENTLY owning a Fiero... that only supports my belief that you really are 10 years old. Geez.
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
First of all, why don't you ask everyone on here to "prove" thier posts. I try to add info and contribute to the forum and am told I am wrong with no facts to back up thier claim. Not like I guessed, I even said how I did it all and still told to prove it, what does it matter what I type, it would still be wrong. After the treament in this post I am thinking of leaving the forum, people don't seem to want my help or info here.
Now to the facts 86 87 Fastback swaybars 7/8" 84-87 Notchback swabars 29/32"
I checked a WS6 fastback and a non WS6 fastback I checked a WS6 notchback and a non WS6 notchback I check a 4 cyl and a V6 notchbacks Above "a" = many And I checked every year I made sure to cover all baises
Now to jaskispyder, you know where to stick that swaybar, since the notchback is bigger use that one.
Got to kind of agree with sardonyx247. If one doesn't actually HAVE a Fiero, then why the Hell is one on a Fiero forum?
Kevin
As a replica owner (I assume based on your avatar), I should ask you the same question.
You guys are funny.... as if having a Fiero in-hand, gives them exclusive access to this forum. And any knowledge from past ownership is no longer valid... as if Fieros have changed over the last few months since I haven't owned one and my knowledge is no longer useful.
This happens all too often on this forum...someone posts some info and it seems like an innocuous post and the next thing you know there are 2 pages of responses, mostly argumentative.
DO YOU GUYS REALIZE THAT YOU ARE ARGUING OVER 1/32 OF AN INCH? 0.031". Does anyone here think that you could detect the difference THIRTY ONE THOUSANDTHS of an inch would make on a Fiero suspension?
Jeez...aren't there more important things to be concerned with?
