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Is a F40 trans (6 speed)with the L67 motor swap feasible? by RivetTheMasses
Started on: 10-12-2014 06:38 AM
Replies: 21 (1071 views)
Last post by: sardonyx247 on 10-15-2014 02:40 AM
RivetTheMasses
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Report this Post10-12-2014 06:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetTheMassesClick Here to Email RivetTheMassesSend a Private Message to RivetTheMassesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Alright I'm looking into the motor swap I want to have done next year, I've settled with the L67 as the motor I want. I'll be buying a running donor car, use what's needed for the motor swap, have the motor rebuilt and upgrade pistons and cam, and scrapping or selling the rest. I've read that the iszuzu trans is weak and likes blowing second gear out.. So my question is, will the f40 6 speed be a better performing alternative? I won't be doing the work myself,I'm fine with cosmetic stuff but anything other than basic maintenance is beyond my means. The car is an '85 SE, iron duke. I don't want an automatic, please refrain from suggesting one. Also,this is my first post, if I made an error in which category I placed this under, forgive my ignorance! Thanks in advance!
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Report this Post10-12-2014 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Leave the engine be. Get it driving reliably first then decide what direction to take for more power. I'm not a fan of f40. getrag F23 5speed is easier and probably stronger.

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post10-12-2014 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RivetTheMasses:

Alright I'm looking into the motor swap I want to have done next year, I've settled with the L67 as the motor I want. I'll be buying a running donor car, use what's needed for the motor swap, have the motor rebuilt and upgrade pistons and cam, and scrapping or selling the rest. I've read that the iszuzu trans is weak and likes blowing second gear out.. So my question is, will the f40 6 speed be a better performing alternative? I won't be doing the work myself,I'm fine with cosmetic stuff but anything other than basic maintenance is beyond my means. The car is an '85 SE, iron duke. I don't want an automatic, please refrain from suggesting one. Also,this is my first post, if I made an error in which category I placed this under, forgive my ignorance! Thanks in advance!


the F40 and F23 are both 100% doable. and i agree with justin on both things he said, get the engine in and running first, upgrade later, and ill be doing the F23 swap very soon myself. idk if its stronger or not, but it certainly is cheaper/easier.

who will be doing your work? ive found that no shops in MD seem capable of doing much of anything relating to a fiero except like 3...
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Report this Post10-12-2014 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Both the 3800/F40 and 3800/F23 have been done several times.

The F23 swap will certainly be cheaper and the transmission shifts smoother, but the F40 will likely result in better fuel economy at highway/interstate speeds.

Having driven comparable cars with both transmissions, I prefer the F40, but again it all comes down to personal preference and how much you want to spend.

Having a general mechanic shop do the swap is a bad idea, will cost a small fortune, and might not even result in a running/driving car when done... or at least that has been the common theme when people have gone this route in the past. Your best bet is to find some place or some person near you who has experience doing Fiero engine swaps and have them do the work.
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post10-12-2014 12:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by fieroguru:

Your best bet is to find some place or some person near you who has experience doing Fiero engine swaps and have them do the work.


now... how do I hide my swap threads? :X

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dobey
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Report this Post10-12-2014 01:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Neither the F40 nor the F23 are 100% direct bolt-in options. The F23 is cheaper/easier to do than the F40. It's 5 gears instead of 6, and factory rated at 170 N-m less torque handling capability.

Everything about your desired swap with both of these transmissions has already been done before, so peruse the forum and research all the threads that exist for the 3800 and both transmissions.
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RivetTheMasses
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Report this Post10-12-2014 02:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetTheMassesClick Here to Email RivetTheMassesSend a Private Message to RivetTheMassesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As for which shop, that's my current issue hah. I'm new to the area, I've found one mechanic who's familiar with fieros and who is decently priced in elkton. There's also another I used to go to about an hour north in PA, does great work and has a history of custom work. All in all I should have about 10-15k to play with when it comes time to do the swap.
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hookdonspeed
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Report this Post10-12-2014 04:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
its a bit of a drive.. but j.e. performance could handle that work, they are not cheap tho.

if you have a garage, do it yourself...
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Justinbart
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Report this Post10-12-2014 04:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JustinbartSend a Private Message to JustinbartEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Have you considered buying a completed swap?

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
10.91@133.1

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RivetTheMasses
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Report this Post10-12-2014 04:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetTheMassesClick Here to Email RivetTheMassesSend a Private Message to RivetTheMassesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
@Hooked, I don't have a garage or the skills as of yet. I'm mostly self taught, and I'm starting school for automotive engineering within a year. As for buying a completed swap @justin, the thought crossed my mind, but unfortunately my area is not huge with the fiero crowd, it'd be difficult to find one already done. Hell I've lived on the east cost for a year and a half and I've only seen one GT fastback, and 4 notchbacks (excluding the two I've owned).
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Report this Post10-12-2014 05:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
10-15K can buy you a very nice car with the swap already completed, so unless you have a very nice Fiero to start with or have some personal attachment to it, just buy one already done or nearly done. There was a turbo 3800/4T65e-hd that runs 10's in the quarter that was easily within your price range a month ago.
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Report this Post10-12-2014 05:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by RivetTheMasses:

@Hooked, I don't have a garage or the skills as of yet. I'm mostly self taught, and I'm starting school for automotive engineering within a year. As for buying a completed swap @justin, the thought crossed my mind, but unfortunately my area is not huge with the fiero crowd, it'd be difficult to find one already done. Hell I've lived on the east cost for a year and a half and I've only seen one GT fastback, and 4 notchbacks (excluding the two I've owned).


thats because u live in BFE, come down to baltimore sometime :P 3 of us went to the track last friday...
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RivetTheMasses
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Report this Post10-12-2014 11:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetTheMassesClick Here to Email RivetTheMassesSend a Private Message to RivetTheMassesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Good point guru. My reasoning is I want to have my bone stock notch from stock to swap, and have it after for a few years. That way I'll know exactly everything that's been done to it, not have to take somebody's word. @ Hooked, once I get some free time I may head down your way, are there regular meets in Baltimore?
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Report this Post10-13-2014 10:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hookdonspeedClick Here to visit hookdonspeed's HomePageClick Here to Email hookdonspeedSend a Private Message to hookdonspeedEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by RivetTheMasses:

Good point guru. My reasoning is I want to have my bone stock notch from stock to swap, and have it after for a few years. That way I'll know exactly everything that's been done to it, not have to take somebody's word. @ Hooked, once I get some free time I may head down your way, are there regular meets in Baltimore?


not "regular" yet, but if you let me know what weekend you wana come down, I can probably get 6 or 7 people together :P
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Report this Post10-13-2014 01:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zkhenningsSend a Private Message to zkhenningsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by RivetTheMasses:

Good point guru. My reasoning is I want to have my bone stock notch from stock to swap, and have it after for a few years. That way I'll know exactly everything that's been done to it, not have to take somebody's word. @ Hooked, once I get some free time I may head down your way, are there regular meets in Baltimore?


If someone else is dong the work for you, you don't know exactly what's been done to it
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Report this Post10-13-2014 02:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Shop saying he knows Fiero could be true or could be full of BS. Suggest you do more research on that shop.
You won't be first one got burn by shady shops, like www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/092379.html and other threads here alone.

Most shops won't do Engine swaps because of time needed alone.
Many won't replacing same engine because eats time.
Shops that do, often can eat Money.

For a swap... Donner car is good but many time shop still needs to mod parts or make custom parts. That alone can eat many Hours. Example: Shifter and Cables will likely need to make or mod parts to use 6 speed. 6 speed could have Axle issue.

They also need good electrical work to figure out plugs etc between two cars.

Shops that cut corners... the Car runs but then days weeks or a few months after with poor wiring, weak shifter mods or wrong/heated bolts (Many are Class 10.9 hardware.) can leave you sitting on highway and that's if you're lucky. Dieing car have cause fatal results. GM Ford etc have many lawsuits from people dying when cars quit working on the highway.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-14-2014 04:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm with Justin on this one, you offer 10-15k and you can buy any Fiero with any swap you want.
You offer that kind of cash for one and everyone with that swap will beg you to buy thier car. And you can have it completed, done, right now.


Edit to add:Anyone who thinks thier Fiero with the swap you want is worth more than that, either extreamly overpaid for it to be done or is smoking crack.

[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 10-14-2014).]

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RivetTheMasses
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Report this Post10-14-2014 04:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RivetTheMassesClick Here to Email RivetTheMassesSend a Private Message to RivetTheMassesEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
@ Hookd pm me or something, I'll see when I'll be available, I'd definitely be up for getting regular meets set up. Everybody else, thanks for the input, definitely going to take it all into consideration, I appreciate the difference in opinions as well.
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Report this Post10-14-2014 09:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
Edit to add:Anyone who thinks thier Fiero with the swap you want is worth more than that, either extreamly overpaid for it to be done or is smoking crack.


Or has a lot more work done to it than just the drivetrain swap, and actually is worth more than that. Like this one: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/061830.html
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-14-2014 01:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
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Originally posted by dobey:


Or has a lot more work done to it than just the drivetrain swap, and actually is worth more than that. Like this one: http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/061830.html


Execpt he was willing to take 15k obo, point proven.
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Report this Post10-14-2014 02:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by sardonyx247:
Execpt he was willing to take 15k obo, point proven.


Circumstance has a huge impact on sale price. Just because he took that for it, as he had no to get rid of it ASAP due to circumstance, doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't have gotten a fair bit more than that, if he had the time and ability to wait for it.

Doesn't prove your "point" at all. Very few 3800 swaps are even worth $10K, or even have $10K put into them. The paint alone for that car was $10K. Saying one is "smoking crack" or "overpaid" if they ask that much for a car that's had hundreds of hours of quality labor put into it, is just rude. Labor is not cheap, especially on a 40+ hour job.
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sardonyx247
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Report this Post10-15-2014 02:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sardonyx247Click Here to visit sardonyx247's HomePageClick Here to Email sardonyx247Send a Private Message to sardonyx247Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
That car was more of a kit than a Fiero, it was also a start up kit car company.
10 grand for paint IS overpaying.
You never get labor out of a car when sold, you barely gets parts value out of it, it sucks but it is the way it is.
He way overpaid for that car, for 50k I could build a better car than that.
Something is only worth what someone will pay for it. And someone was only willing to pay less than 15k for 50k invested, so yeah he can get any one he wants for 15k.
Sorry if you think it's rude, but it is what it is.
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