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Draining Stale Gasoline from the Tank - The Easy Way by Dennis LaGrua
Started on: 09-18-2014 01:03 PM
Replies: 14 (665 views)
Last post by: Dennis LaGrua on 09-21-2014 09:41 AM
Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post09-18-2014 01:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
We get a lot of questions on this forum with regard to draining the gas tanks of old stale gasoline. The usual answer most often given seems to be disconnect the gas line at the filter, add a hose to a tank, energize the fuel pump and pump the gas out.. Then there are the people that believe that dropping the tank with gas in it is the only way to go.
The LaGrua method is the easiest and I would like to share this with everyone.
Clip on a battery charger to your battery before starting the process. A 4 amp or higher unit should od. Always be very careful at all times of sparking that could cause a fire.
Find, buy, locate an old R-12 refrigerant charging hose with the female fittings on the end. They have the same threads as the fuel rail test port. Remove the port cap, screw the hose on. Put other end of hose in a gasoline can. Make up a wire with a clip on one end and a connector pin on the other. Use this wire to connect battery 12V + to the fuel pump pin on the ALDL connector or take the power from the cigarette lighter socket with a plug. The fuel pump will energize, cycle and pump out the stale gas. Listen for a sputter on the gas coming out of the line that happens when fuel is running out.. Immediately remove the wire from the ALDL connector, unscrew hose, put cap back on- DONE. Refill with fresh gasoline.
NOTE; this method can be used to remove old gasoline that still flows freely. If your gas is very old and turning to varnish a gallon of fresh gas added to the tank may dissolve some of the sludge and thin it so that it will drain. . In extreme cases this technique might not work . In some cases the tank must be drained, removed and power washed or steam cleaned.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
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Report this Post09-18-2014 01:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

The LaGrua method is the easiest and I would like to share this with everyone.

Find, buy, locate an old R-12 refrigerant charging hose with the female fittings on the end. They have the same threads as the fuel rail test port. Remove the port cap, screw the hose on.


Good luck using the "LaGrua method" on a duke.

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-18-2014).]

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Report this Post09-18-2014 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:

Good luck using the "LaGrua method" on a duke.



Remove pump and all rubber and other attachments on fuel tank. Set in big open field. Insert match. Watch the gasoline be set free.
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Report this Post09-18-2014 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


Remove pump and all rubber and other attachments on fuel tank. Set in big open field. Insert match. Watch the gasoline be set free.


There might be more than just gasoline set free
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DKcustoms
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Report this Post09-18-2014 07:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: Use this wire to connect battery 12V + to the fuel pump pin on the ALDL connector or take the power from the cigarette lighter socket with a plug. The fuel pump will energize, cycle and pump out the stale gas.


Good tip thanks!

But I do not believe this will work for those of us running OBD II
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post09-19-2014 04:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by DKcustoms:


Good tip thanks!

But I do not believe this will work for those of us running OBD II


I guess that for OBD II there will be another step. You will need to disconnect the fuel pump connector (I kept mine on 3800SC swaps ) and feed the power directly to the pump or put power to the fuel pump relay.

 
quote
Good luck using the "LaGrua method" on a duke.

but a brilliant mind as yourself should be able to figure out something so simple!

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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Report this Post09-19-2014 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Do Not go anywhere when FP is on. If FP is run dry or even have low flow then you will damage or kill the pump. Fuel Flow is coolant and lube to the pump.

ALDL pin G is after pump relay and oil sender switch. Should work on any ECM setup.

Battery changer is a good idea. Low or "Dead" battery can damage or kill the FP.
Typically FP draws ~8 amps at 14v. At bit more amps at 12v.
See my Cave, Electric Motors

Duke 86 & under then disconnect fuel filter.
Duke 87 & up is same but filter is under car.
Don't loose the O-ring on fuel line! If you do, need to find fuel safe O-ring. (Should be replace every time but many don't.) Black rubber won't last. I think they are Viton O-Rings. Try dorman 800-013 etc

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Report this Post09-19-2014 08:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If your car has a connection in the return line that is lower than the fuel level in the tank, then you just have to disconnect it and the fuel will siphon itself out of the tank. No battery power required!

This works well for me as I use a filter/regulator mounted right behind the fuel tank on my swaps, so its easy for me to disconnect the return from the filter/regulator.
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Patrick
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Report this Post09-19-2014 08:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

...but a brilliant mind as yourself should be able to figure out something so simple!


Come on Dennis, no need to be snarky.

My experience is that normally a tank needs to be dropped because the fuel pump is no longer working... so draining the tank beforehand (using the fuel pump) is not usually an option.

 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

If your car has a connection in the return line that is lower than the fuel level in the tank, then you just have to disconnect it and the fuel will siphon itself out of the tank. No battery power required!


Never thought of doing it that way (I've only dropped four tanks), but on a factory set up I guess you could connect a piece of tubing to the return tube/hose sticking out of the tank while underneath the car?

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-19-2014).]

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Report this Post09-19-2014 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:
If your car has a connection in the return line that is lower than the fuel level in the tank, then you just have to disconnect it and the fuel will siphon itself out of the tank. No battery power required!

This works well for me as I use a filter/regulator mounted right behind the fuel tank on my swaps, so its easy for me to disconnect the return from the filter/regulator.

Try getting any tube thru fill port? Long inlet tube w/ a few bends... Fiero is very good at resisting siphons.
Everything else means in most cases you body is getting under the car. 87 duke can remove fuel filter with little effort and nobody under the car, only arms and hands.

If your working on the tank then no one cares but Many times people are just trying to dump "bad" gas. FP method doesn't need a jack, jack stands, place to jack safely, etc. Many posts in the past have covered this method.

If the battery is good and full charged, you can run FP awhile w/o a charger.
When the battery has big "Reserve Capacity" even better. 90 minutes can run FP an hours or more. (or less... RC spec is a guide. The spec measured at 80°F. Colder/hotter will change the #.) FP likely uses less power to empty the tank because system doesn't make pressure.
Real Problem is most people will try to start the car several to many times w/o charging then try to run FP w/ low battery. That is Very not good.

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 09-19-2014).]

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Report this Post09-19-2014 11:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickClick Here to Email PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:

Many times people are just trying to dump "bad" gas.


I've never understood that myself. Yes, there's the odd occasion that old gas turns to goo, but I've resurrected four Fieros that have sat for years (including one that sat for about eight years), and the old gas (yes, it stunk really bad!) was fine after mixing fresh gas with it.
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Report this Post09-20-2014 07:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
Try getting any tube thru fill port? Long inlet tube w/ a few bends... Fiero is very good at resisting siphons.


I wasn't referring to running any additional tube. The stock return line in the tank ends about 1/2" from the bottom of the tank. If your return line hose runs close to the bottom of the tank, then there will be fuel suspended in the return line, so all you have to do is pull the hose and fuel starts to flow out and will continue to flow until the tank is nearly empty. Sure you have to raise the car to get to it, but that isn't an issue for me.

Here is a picture of my fuel filer/regulator setup and where the hoses are:



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Report this Post09-20-2014 11:29 AM Click Here to See the Profile for css9450Click Here to Email css9450Send a Private Message to css9450Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by fieroguru:

If your car has a connection in the return line that is lower than the fuel level in the tank, then you just have to disconnect it and the fuel will siphon itself out of the tank. No battery power required!



I did something similar: I needed to drain some from a completely full tank so I could drop the tank and replace the pump.

I removed the one-inch or so hose (the vent hose) from the tank and ran my siphon hose in there, with the other end in a big 5-gallon can I placed under the car. Then I ran the hose from one of those pump garden sprayers into the fuel fuller pipe. I sealed up all gaps (tank vent and hose plus the fuel filler) with rags. I pumped for awhile on the sprayer to pressurize the tank and soon gas was flowing out and into my 5-gallon can. I drained an entire 5 gallons this way.

I suspect gravity did most of the work after I "pressurized" the tank with my sprayer.

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Report this Post09-20-2014 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I've never understood that myself. Yes, there's the odd occasion that old gas turns to goo, but I've resurrected four Fieros that have sat for years (including one that sat for about eight years), and the old gas (yes, it stunk really bad!) was fine after mixing fresh gas with it.

Me neither but many think to dump all bad/old gas.
If you have ~1/2 tank I would bother. Just add fresh gas and keep tank full will quickly dilute old gas.
A full tank w/ bad gas maybe or has enough water for pump to suck then likely helps.
Engine won't run on water but worse, Ethanol loves Water... A big shot can cause Ethanol to come out of solution with gas. If you have water then likely pull the tank or pull big fill hose and use a weighted siphon to get at the water. (tank in car, jack front so water is at the back of tank.)
(Water is part of problem for boat users. Other big issue is that many boat with fiber glass tanks hate Ethanol.)

fieroguru I get that... Most people do not have then option.
Dorman does make correct line ends for that filter.
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Dennis LaGrua
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Report this Post09-21-2014 09:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have found that if you mix fresh gasoline with stale gasoline, you can get the engine to start and run, but it won't run well until all the rotten gas is cycled and used up. Even my 3800SC which I use for the spring/summer/fall season will run rough after winter storage. When tank condensation gets in the gas it just ruins it. I've tried Stabile and it helps but contaminated gas is a big problem on a car used only for hobby purposes.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

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