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2.8 starts, warms up and loses spark. by el_roy1985
Started on: 09-17-2014 08:49 PM
Replies: 16 (316 views)
Last post by: el_roy1985 on 09-20-2014 08:42 PM
el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-17-2014 08:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Trying to buy an 87 Fiero (with a swapped in 2.8/4 speed manual). The problem with it though, is that it will not stay running. When we first put the battery in, it fired right up and ran but died every minute or two. Then eventually it would not start at all. We then replaced the ignition pickup coil. It started up again after getting the timing back in order and ran for about 10 minutes. While it was running, it was idling at about 2000rpm and would dip down every so often only to return to the high idle. Eventually it dipped down and just died out and would not restart. It was then not getting any spark. From there we tried three different ICMs and a new coil. Nothing worked to get the spark back and that's where we gave up for the day. I did find this thread http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122229.html , which I will use to do further testing next time I get the chance. Was wondering if maybe there was any other suggestions though, as it seems we should have been able to get it running with everything we did.

Also, I did accidentally got the wires for the pickup coil stuck under the distributor cap. The car fired up and died right away when the wires were caught, and must have fried the ICM, as we had to replace that before we regained spark. After that is when we got the car to run again for 10 minutes or so and then lost spark once again.

Then finally, the car also started to smoke really bad after replacing the pick up coil. Before that, there wasn't much if any smoke coming out of the exhaust. There was a lot of cranking done while messing with the timing, but I'm not sure if that would have caused it to smoke the entire 10 minutes or so that it was running. The first time it ran, smoke was coming from where the egr valve (I think that's what it is, right next to the coil) was, but only from there. The last time it was running, smoke came from there and also a lot came from the tail pipes.

[This message has been edited by el_roy1985 (edited 09-17-2014).]

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Dukeiboy
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Report this Post09-17-2014 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DukeiboyClick Here to Email DukeiboySend a Private Message to DukeiboyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does the engine run smooth during the times it does run?
How does it act when you rev it?

Start with the simple things, my mechanic couldn't get my car to run good when I first bought it, and sent me home with it thinking it would work the kinks out. All it needed was a set of plug wires. Haven't gone back to a mechanic in two years now

------------------
Red '84, 75,000 miles.. work in progress

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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-18-2014 08:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It actually ran very smooth while it was running and was responsive to throttle inputs, revving up without any issues.
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2.5
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Report this Post09-18-2014 08:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
How are the plugs and wires, also how old is the gas and fuel filter?
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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-18-2014 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Plugs and wires were recently replaced, along with the fuel pump and filter. Not sure how old the fuel is.
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Report this Post09-18-2014 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So at this point does it have consistsant spark and there are other problems? When you check for spark are you checking at the spark plug?
Does it always crank ok as far as the battery turning the starter?

Hoping gathering more info will trip an idea...

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-18-2014).]

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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-18-2014 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Seems to run fine until it warms up (other then a few hiccups every once in a while, wonder if those are instances where it loses spark momentarily...), so it must have consistant spark up until then. We then checked spark at the wire going to the distributor and there was none. The battery is good, as I tested it at work yesterday. The starter also cranks the engine over without any problems. Hoping to be able to work on it some more after work tomorrow. Going to bring my multimeter and check the pickup coil and ignition coil. Then hopefully get the ICM tested. Guess I should also check all the connectors for corrosion.

At least I know it runs, it's just keeping it running. After that, my biggest worry is all the smoke that was coming out of the exhaust. Definitely smelled like oil. Had the oil cap off while it was running and I didn't feel any blowby. Any ideas on that?
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Report this Post09-18-2014 12:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Replace the PCV for oil burning is my 1st thought on that, but maybe its actually rich from fuel.
I dont get why warming up would kill it unless some sensor is causing loading up fuel thinking it its still a cold engine.
If the fuel pressure checks good I woudl fill it with good fresh gas since we arent sure how old the gas is, maybe add Seafoam to the tank.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 09-18-2014).]

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Mickey_Moose
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Report this Post09-18-2014 01:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had a very similar problem on a Camaro 2.8l I had except it was really intermittent on the car, but only showed up after the car was warm and hard been running for some time. Turned out it had a bad pick up coil
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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-18-2014 01:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I'm thinking it might be the pickup coil, even though we already replaced it. Being that after replacing everything and there was still no spark, it seems like that's what it has to be. Wondering if when I caught the wires under the cap it fried the new pickup coil. Would think it would fry the ICM before the coil, but kind of lost at this point.
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Report this Post09-18-2014 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Could be connecting wires to the coil or ICM too.
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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-18-2014 11:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Going to work on it some after work tomorrow. Going to test the parts before even starting it, then if it does start, I'll test them again when it dies.
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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-20-2014 12:41 AM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
As expected, it fired right up when I went to work on it today. Here are some pictures of the reading I got from the multimeter.





From the other thread, it states that you should not have any continuity when grounded. Judging by my readings, the pickup coil is apparently bad. Will put a new one in tomorrow to see what happens.

Anyone have any comments on where all this smoke could be coming from? Definitely not coolant, as it has a strong oil smell to it.

https://www.youtube.com/wat..._TY&feature=youtu.be

Would embed it, but not sure how on here...

[This message has been edited by el_roy1985 (edited 09-20-2014).]

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phonedawgz
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Report this Post09-20-2014 05:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


That will keep the mosquitoes away.

+1 on the bad pick up coil

Your engine looks quite sick however.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 09-20-2014).]

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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-20-2014 12:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, it definitely is sick. Going to do a compression test on it today. Not sure what could cause all this smoke. Thinking possibly a valve seal. If it's a head gasket, I'm not sure I want to mess with it.
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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-20-2014 08:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
It's running for longer then ten minutes without losing spark now. The new pick up coil did the trick. Now to figure out the smoke issue...

I did a compression check on the rear bank (1 3 5?) and the were even all the way across. I forgot to hold the throttle open, but they all were at about 90. I was unable to fit my arm in and get the front plugs, so I gave up for the day. Felt that getting it running was accomplishment enough for now.


When I pulled the plugs, this is what I saw...

Plug 1


Plug 5


The first one was completely saturated in what I'm pretty sure is oil. None of them looked to be steam cleaned, so no sign of a bad head gasket there. Although, when I removed the coolant cap on the engine with it running, it immediately spewed out coolant. Not sure if that is the normal response when removing that cap while the engine is running, but the front radiator cap seemed to do the same thing. So maybe that IS a sign of a bad head gasket?

I should probably go back and check the other three cylinder's compressions, but those ones seem to be a huge pain to get to. Guessing taking the deck lid off might help though. Right now I'm trying to decide whether or not head gaskets are something I want to mess with.

Then lastly, I found at least one crack in the exhaust manifolds....



Suppose I'll be doing some welding. If I do end up doing the head gaskets, maybe I'll go ahead and build some headers while I'm at it.
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el_roy1985
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Report this Post09-20-2014 08:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for el_roy1985Send a Private Message to el_roy1985Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I started a new thread about the smoke issue, since this one is titled for the spark issue. Hopefully that way I will get more responses.
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