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88 rear knuckle looseness problems by Rodney
Started on: 09-11-2014 01:48 PM
Replies: 51 (1483 views)
Last post by: Will on 10-28-2014 10:27 AM
rourke_87_T-Top
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Report this Post09-19-2014 01:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ain't nobody ever gonna solve this problem, poor design to begin with. It's like comparing a small hinge that wears out to a piano style hinge, if they had designed it to carry the bolt at the outer ends it would have helped to limit the deflection of the bolt.
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Gall757
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Report this Post09-24-2014 06:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Gall757Send a Private Message to Gall757Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Fiero owners have fixed a lot of things that GM had wrong in the first place......
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Rodney
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Report this Post10-10-2014 07:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have an idea. I'll work on this in the next week or two.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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rourke_87_T-Top
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Report this Post10-11-2014 01:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

I have an idea. I'll work on this in the next week or two.



A carrier could work if it attached to the knuckle, either side of the strut, with brace(s) above and below the length of the bolt. It would help to stabilize the entire assembly.
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Rodney
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Report this Post10-18-2014 09:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Made a prototype and sent it out for someone to check out. Feedback is very good. Looks like a nice inexpensive and easy to install item. I'll work on making some. Might take a few 3-4 weeks or so. I've been looking at this for several years. I think many will like this.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Rodney
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Report this Post10-26-2014 04:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The person I sent it to to look at thought it was a very good innovative idea. So I started making a batch. I started a web page for them which I will upgrade soon:

http://rodneydickman.com/ca...6_43&products_id=352

Simple and easy to install. Pulls the long bolt tight against the side of the hole in the casting. Bolt is now rock solid in the casting!

I should have some in stock in a few weeks.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Bozzie
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Report this Post10-26-2014 08:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BozzieClick Here to Email BozzieSend a Private Message to BozzieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If your running poly bushings couldn't you run the correct bolt with a thinner sleeve in the bushing ?

Boz

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http://i252.photobucket.com...ec/2007_12240001.jpg

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rourke_87_T-Top
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Report this Post10-27-2014 08:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rourke_87_T-TopClick Here to Email rourke_87_T-TopSend a Private Message to rourke_87_T-TopEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The 84-87 front upper control arm bolt could use a similar brace, it wouldn't be as simple as the '88 knuckle idea, but maybe using the small removeable, upper crossmember to chassis as an attachment point. Thereby eliminating the problem of the egged out tube. If you can picture a wide shackle but fixed so that it does not swivel. The upper arm would be much more stable.
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Report this Post10-27-2014 12:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:
Pulls the long bolt tight against the side of the hole in the casting.


Not to throw cold water on a great brainstorming thread, but the hole in the knuckle eggs-out only within a half inch or so deep from the openings at either end. The hole stays relatively tight in the center so won't using this girdle simply be bending the bolt to take up the slack? If so, then all of the strain placed on the bolt by the girdle will be exerted on what amounts to a very small surface area (less than half the circumference of the through holes in the brace times the thickness of the girdle ears). I'd be concerned that the holes in the girdle would egg-out pretty quickly or that the girdle would start eating away at the bolt diameter. Just my opinion.

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Report this Post10-27-2014 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for JefrysukoSend a Private Message to JefrysukoEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:


Not to throw cold water on a great brainstorming thread, but the hole in the knuckle eggs-out only within a half inch or so deep from the openings at either end. The hole stays relatively tight in the center so won't using this girdle simply be bending the bolt to take up the slack? If so, then all of the strain placed on the bolt by the girdle will be exerted on what amounts to a very small surface area (less than half the circumference of the through holes in the brace times the thickness of the girdle ears). I'd be concerned that the holes in the girdle would egg-out pretty quickly or that the girdle would start eating away at the bolt diameter. Just my opinion.


What everyone keeps forgetting or neglecting in this thread is that the whole reason the holes get elongated or egg shaped is because the bolted joint fails due to the lack of abutment with the split sleeves in the bushings. So if you don't fix the root of the problem then yes you can expect to see the same results. If you fix the root of the problem then what Rodney has come up with would be a fine band-aid to apply such that someone could continue to use their worn out knuckles. It would only be useful for initial setup to hold the bolt/links concentric to the hole while the bolted joint is tightened and then the set screws could be removed as the girdle should not see any loading unless of course the bolted joint fails again. If I was Rodney I wouldn't want to sell such a contraption in fear that someone would use it with the original bushings (Not fixing the original design) and complain that it failed due to loading it should have never been subject to.

[This message has been edited by Jefrysuko (edited 10-27-2014).]

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Rodney
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Report this Post10-28-2014 08:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RodneyClick Here to visit Rodney's HomePageClick Here to Email RodneySend a Private Message to RodneyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does anyone have any examples of egged out holes? The only rear knuckle I have seen that was egg shaped was the one Ed Parks gave me that was in a side collision.

My device addresses the factory deficiency. When you have a casting like this they need to make the hole the bolt passes thru plenty large so the bolt passes thru it easily for assembly. The other problem is the hole is drilled making it a slightly tapered hole. A precision hole would be drilled undersize and reamed. The side the drill bit starts on will always be a few (several) thousandths larger than the other end. A very slight taper. So my device locks the long bolt tight to the casting as if it was part of the casting. If one has a knuckle that has significant egg shape in the holes that person should look to find good used replacements.

For those (and I think that is most) that have knuckles in good condition I think this will be an excellent upgrade.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

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Will
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Report this Post10-28-2014 10:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for WillClick Here to Email WillSend a Private Message to WillEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Bloozberry:

Not to throw cold water on a great brainstorming thread, but the hole in the knuckle eggs-out only within a half inch or so deep from the openings at either end. The hole stays relatively tight in the center so won't using this girdle simply be bending the bolt to take up the slack? If so, then all of the strain placed on the bolt by the girdle will be exerted on what amounts to a very small surface area (less than half the circumference of the through holes in the brace times the thickness of the girdle ears). I'd be concerned that the holes in the girdle would egg-out pretty quickly or that the girdle would start eating away at the bolt diameter. Just my opinion.


 
quote
Originally posted by Jefrysuko:

What everyone keeps forgetting or neglecting in this thread is that the whole reason the holes get elongated or egg shaped is because the bolted joint fails due to the lack of abutment with the split sleeves in the bushings. So if you don't fix the root of the problem then yes you can expect to see the same results. If you fix the root of the problem then what Rodney has come up with would be a fine band-aid to apply such that someone could continue to use their worn out knuckles. It would only be useful for initial setup to hold the bolt/links concentric to the hole while the bolted joint is tightened and then the set screws could be removed as the girdle should not see any loading unless of course the bolted joint fails again. If I was Rodney I wouldn't want to sell such a contraption in fear that someone would use it with the original bushings (Not fixing the original design) and complain that it failed due to loading it should have never been subject to.



Ditto... The girdle is a patch, and doesn't fix the real design problem.

 
quote
Originally posted by Rodney:

My device addresses the factory deficiency. When you have a casting like this they need to make the hole the bolt passes thru plenty large so the bolt passes thru it easily for assembly. The other problem is the hole is drilled making it a slightly tapered hole. A precision hole would be drilled undersize and reamed. The side the drill bit starts on will always be a few (several) thousandths larger than the other end. A very slight taper. So my device locks the long bolt tight to the casting as if it was part of the casting. If one has a knuckle that has significant egg shape in the holes that person should look to find good used replacements.


That's not the factory deficiency... the factory deficiency is essentially mounting the bushings in single shear.

If you extended your girdle such that it fit OUTSIDE the stock bushings and prevented the nut and bolt from seeing the torsion that the squeezed bushing center sleeves put on them, then it would be a way of addressing the stock problem.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-28-2014).]

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