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If you have a 3.4, please chime in. by zzzhuh
Started on: 09-04-2014 01:54 PM
Replies: 26 (570 views)
Last post by: hnthomps on 09-09-2014 09:36 PM
zzzhuh
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Report this Post09-04-2014 01:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I want to swap a 3.8SC engine but if I can get almost 200HP out of a 3.4 I'd rather do that and keep the stock look.

If I ported/polished everything and also threw in a performance cam, would that get me close? Should I also add header's just to increase air flow?
I would also do the simple 'true cold air intake' mod that im sure we all know about.

If you have a 3.4 I'd appreciate your input. Plus, what is your average MPG?

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Report this Post09-04-2014 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post09-04-2014 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

http://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-066575.html


That page talks about a carb vs FI. Doesn't really apply to my question. Cool to see 200HP out of a 3.4 tho.

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 09-04-2014).]

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Report this Post09-04-2014 04:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Dennis LaGruaClick Here to Email Dennis LaGruaSend a Private Message to Dennis LaGruaEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I believe that 200HP from an N/A 3.4L P/R engine is achievable with the mods that you mention but the U/L plenums may be the roadblock to achieving that goal. The main restriction to making these engines breathe must be greatly modified (or changed) . The process would involve porting and welding.

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Report this Post09-04-2014 04:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Mickey_MooseClick Here to visit Mickey_Moose's HomePageClick Here to Email Mickey_MooseSend a Private Message to Mickey_MooseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have this in mine, nothing more (well, ported the original exhaust manifolds - I wanted to keep the 100% stock look).

http://paceperformance.com/...ne-discontinued.html

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zzzhuh
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Report this Post09-04-2014 05:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Mickey_Moose:

I have this in mine, nothing more (well, ported the original exhaust manifolds - I wanted to keep the 100% stock look).

http://paceperformance.com/...ne-discontinued.html


Damn! If only they hadn't discontinued that block. I had read people on here mentioning that they still sold this engine but I guess now :/
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Report this Post09-04-2014 05:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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quote
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua:

I believe that 200HP from an N/A 3.4L P/R engine is achievable with the mods that you mention but the U/L plenums may be the roadblock to achieving that goal. The main restriction to making these engines breathe must be greatly modified (or changed) . The process would involve porting and welding.



This would be the best way to keep it a stock look but have it breath better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aotZeZFXuC0

I never understood why anyone would use an aftermarket intake over doing this. Any reason why 3800SC engine swaps don't utilize this setup?
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Report this Post09-04-2014 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:
That page talks about a carb vs FI. Doesn't really apply to my question. Cool to see 200HP out of a 3.4 tho.

the EFI 3.4 made more than the carb version...the mods are listed in the thread... You can replace the Trueleo intake with a DAWG-modded intake to increase flow along with a 57 mm throttle body. It should make comparable power. It answers your question. The HT272 isn't even the most radical cam...
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Report this Post09-04-2014 08:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
A turbo 3.4 engine would solve some of the air intake issues and yield more than 200 HP.



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Report this Post09-04-2014 08:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

the EFI 3.4 made more than the carb version...the mods are listed in the thread... You can replace the Trueleo intake with a DAWG-modded intake to increase flow along with a 57 mm throttle body. It should make comparable power. It answers your question. The HT272 isn't even the most radical cam...


Honestly, im not that surprised that the EFI made more HP than the carb. Never understood why you would decide to go carb over EFI, other than nostalgia/price.

Are you talking about an intake like this?



I realize it's a dual throttle but from what I can remember, TLG use to sell these.
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zzzhuh
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Report this Post09-04-2014 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

A turbo 3.4 engine would solve some of the air intake issues and yield more than 200 HP.

Nelson


I agree, but by the time you install it you've put about as much as a 3800SC swap cost's.
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Report this Post09-04-2014 09:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarClick Here to Email RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You can get 200 HP out of a 3.4, but it won't be cheap.
I never dynoed mine, but it probably made about that, based upon the hardware.

Having said that... I had $800 just in head work. Not including the cost of the heads.
Had a 272 cam, 19# Bosch injectors, a Trueleo intake (Dawg's intake would probably be an acceptable substitute, but you'll still need to port the lower and middle intakes.)
I also had FOCOA headers. The only headers that I've seen that looked like they would flow nearly as well were Trueleos. Both are out of production.
I used a Cloyes tru-roller(sp?) timing set, with the cam indexed "fully retarded" for top end power.
I used the stock 3.4 pistons, but the 272 cam likes high compression. If I were going to do it over, I would use 3.4 DOHC pistons.

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Report this Post09-05-2014 08:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post09-05-2014 06:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SlowbuildSend a Private Message to SlowbuildEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Foss ghetto build 3.4T dual tb.

http://www.westcoastfieros....?TID=1625&PN=1&TPN=4

Chay

P.S.: I would go 3.8Turbo
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Report this Post09-05-2014 09:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have had my built 3.4 in my fiero about 3 years and I may be looking to sell it. I want to try my hand at a 3800 super setup and I dont need another engine sitting around. It has about all the goodies you could want, truleo intake and headers, ported heads, 260 cam with 1.6 FULL roller rockers, 19# injectors, holly adjustable fuel regulator, 7730 ECM swap, and more I cant even remember. Runs great has a nice large cam burble to it. Very reliable for me too, drove it to the 30th fiero anniversary from detroit to indy (about 4 hours)

If you have any questions about how to do the swap you can PM me or if you want to buy it let me know.

[This message has been edited by Riddick85 (edited 09-05-2014).]

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Report this Post09-05-2014 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by lou_dias:

This is a DAWG-modded intake:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../075502-15.html#p585

This is a Trueleo intake:
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/075502-6.html#p231


From the pictures it seems like the DAWG mod involves welding which I have no access to, and have no experience with.

Guess the Trueleo intake is the way I'll have to go, however dual throttle body's look MEAN

Anyone know if TLG (what ever the new name is) or anyone else is offing a similar dual throttle body?
I also recall seeing an intake that was the fiero's except it was bigger? I think the fiero store or even TLG was selling it for awhile. I remember the image for it showed it in a chrome finish. Any links?
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Report this Post09-05-2014 10:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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quote
Originally posted by Riddick85:

I have had my built 3.4 in my fiero about 3 years and I may be looking to sell it. I want to try my hand at a 3800 super setup and I dont need another engine sitting around. It has about all the goodies you could want, truleo intake and headers, ported heads, 260 cam with 1.6 FULL roller rockers, 19# injectors, holly adjustable fuel regulator, 7730 ECM swap, and more I cant even remember. Runs great has a nice large cam burble to it. Very reliable for me too, drove it to the 30th fiero anniversary from detroit to indy (about 4 hours)

If you have any questions about how to do the swap you can PM me or if you want to buy it let me know.



I would be interested in your engine, however Michigan is a bit of a drive. What is the benefits behind the 7730ECM over stock? Does the 3.4 need that ECM to run.

Oh, my car is an manual, don't know if that plays a role or not.
Any idea what HP/Torque is?

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Report this Post09-05-2014 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Riddick85Send a Private Message to Riddick85Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This thread explains the 7730 a bit: http://myfiero.oceanmoon.co...1227730-for-stock-28

I would keep the 7730 for sure there was quite a bit of work that went into it and it is already done. My car is a 5 speed so that should work as well.

Not sure on HP or torque. It is probably just shy of 200 HP maybe more
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Report this Post09-06-2014 10:05 AM Click Here to See the Profile for lou_diasClick Here to Email lou_diasSend a Private Message to lou_diasEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:


From the pictures it seems like the DAWG mod involves welding which I have no access to, and have no experience with.

Any machine shop can do it for $150-$200...

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 09-06-2014).]

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Report this Post09-06-2014 11:02 AM Click Here to See the Profile for MarkSClick Here to Email MarkSSend a Private Message to MarkSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Checked the Mall, searched Dawg, looks like he is still with us, he bumped his Master List thread just a few days ago. Good to see, decent Fiero vendors are getting a little thin.

BR's,

Mark

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86 SE V6 4 speed
86 SE V6 Auto
2008 G6 GT "Street" Coupe
2005 Buick 3.6 Rendezvous
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Report this Post09-06-2014 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for AL87Click Here to Email AL87Send a Private Message to AL87Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
if anyone has ever read the gm 60* V6 power manual, they mention that a 2.8 is capable of running upto 230hp on carbuerators.
the problem IS the intake system like everyone is saying, if you can find the dyno charts people have posted you can see the restriction happen much earlier because of the 3.4 running the fiero intake compared to the 2.8.

all you can really do is port everything, cam the mo fo with something like a... 282 (custom cam) and utilize high compression.
upgrade the injectors to match the demands. and then get a tune. also not to mention balancing the rotating assembly, getting a good performance harmonic balancer, and use roller timing chain and roller rockers. and on top of the custom intake/exhaust.

time and experience shows... the 3.4 is the budget engine swap for those unhappy with the 2.8.
Although you could turbo the motor and get your desired 200+ hp that way.
the s/c 3800 is the MOST COMMON swap, along with a carbed sbc. also resources and support are easily available.
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Report this Post09-06-2014 12:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BillSClick Here to Email BillSSend a Private Message to BillSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:

You can get 200 HP out of a 3.4, but it won't be cheap.
I never dynoed mine, but it probably made about that, based upon the hardware.

Having said that... I had $800 just in head work. Not including the cost of the heads.
Had a 272 cam, 19# Bosch injectors, a Trueleo intake (Dawg's intake would probably be an acceptable substitute, but you'll still need to port the lower and middle intakes.)
I also had FOCOA headers. The only headers that I've seen that looked like they would flow nearly as well were Trueleos. Both are out of production.
I used a Cloyes tru-roller(sp?) timing set, with the cam indexed "fully retarded" for top end power.
I used the stock 3.4 pistons, but the 272 cam likes high compression. If I were going to do it over, I would use 3.4 DOHC pistons.


My set up is not unlike yours except that I used modified Fiero exhaust manifolds (if you keep the Fiero exhaust it is mandatory to remove the restrictions in the port flanges and interconnect pipe) and the intake I used was the Camaro SFI, not the Fiero, which is more restrictive. I also run a TB bored to 62 mm from 52 mm.

I agree completely about the higher compression being beneficial but I also stuck with 9:1 and run regular gas, but then I only haul 2,000 lbs. as the engine is in a British sports car. The result gives the same perrformance as a Rover 3.5 modded in an MGB. I think you are right on with around 200 bhp estimate.

[This message has been edited by BillS (edited 09-06-2014).]

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Report this Post09-06-2014 09:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Riddick85:

This thread explains the 7730 a bit: http://myfiero.oceanmoon.co...1227730-for-stock-28

I would keep the 7730 for sure there was quite a bit of work that went into it and it is already done. My car is a 5 speed so that should work as well.

Not sure on HP or torque. It is probably just shy of 200 HP maybe more


Thanks for the link my man! Guess the 7730 really IS worth the hassle. Not trying to 'offend' you or anything but I feel like if I personally buy the engine and build it, i'll be happier. Mainly because I've never done an engine swap, and when I do things like that myself it adds more personal value to the car. I think we can all agree on that. However, I will definitely need to ask some questions in the future so be prepared

[This message has been edited by zzzhuh (edited 09-06-2014).]

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Report this Post09-06-2014 09:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

zzzhuh

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Member since Jan 2014
 
quote
Originally posted by AL87:

all you can really do is port everything, cam the mo fo with something like a... 282 (custom cam) and utilize high compression.
upgrade the injectors to match the demands. and then get a tune. also not to mention balancing the rotating assembly, getting a good performance harmonic balancer, and use roller timing chain and roller rockers. and on top of the custom intake/exhaust.

time and experience shows... the 3.4 is the budget engine swap for those unhappy with the 2.8.
Although you could turbo the motor and get your desired 200+ hp that way.
the s/c 3800 is the MOST COMMON swap, along with a carbed sbc. also resources and support are easily available.


I realize that the 3800SC IS probably the best swap but.... Like you said, the 3.4 is more of a budget swap. I could save up $3000 and do an engine swap, but I'd also like a new paint job, shocks struts, and a few other things. And with a 3800SC I won't have any money left over to do those things.


I would like to mention that I want to use this as a daily driver as well. So gas mileage IS a factor. I realize power cost's gas mileage/reliability, and I know the 3800SC WOULD get the best MPG.
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Report this Post09-08-2014 09:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:


I realize that the 3800SC IS probably the best swap but.... Like you said, the 3.4 is more of a budget swap. I could save up $3000 and do an engine swap, but I'd also like a new paint job, shocks struts, and a few other things. And with a 3800SC I won't have any money left over to do those things.


I would like to mention that I want to use this as a daily driver as well. So gas mileage IS a factor. I realize power cost's gas mileage/reliability, and I know the 3800SC WOULD get the best MPG.


Both my turbo 3.4 and 3800 SC Series II and III engines get 25-26 mpg at road speeds running the A/C. The Series II engine is fully stock except for the 3.4 pulley, and the Series III is built with some goodies. Note that mpg will change depending on how heavy your foot is on the gas.

Nelson
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Report this Post09-08-2014 11:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for zzzhuhSend a Private Message to zzzhuhEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:


Both my turbo 3.4 and 3800 SC Series II and III engines get 25-26 mpg at road speeds running the A/C. The Series II engine is fully stock except for the 3.4 pulley, and the Series III is built with some goodies. Note that mpg will change depending on how heavy your foot is on the gas.

Nelson


Thanks for your input. Any idea your HP/Torque on your 3.4? What kind of turbo are you using, and how much did it cost to install?
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Report this Post09-09-2014 09:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by zzzhuh:


Thanks for your input. Any idea your HP/Torque on your 3.4? What kind of turbo are you using, and how much did it cost to install?


I have not run a dyno on this car as of this date. As soon as I get my Truleo intake installed back on the car I am likely to get a dyno run if I can find one locally. My last two runs on different cars were in Atlanta. This engine has a Mitsubishi turbo on it but I do not remember the specific model number right now. I will see if I can find my paperwork on it sometime this week.

WRT cost, I have gone through a number of iterations and purchased the initial turbo set up as part of a package with a new short block 3.4. I can tell you that I sold a complete used turbo set on PFF for about $1800 a year or two ago. Complete kits with non Chinese turbos are rare and I have no idea as to the current cost but I might guess in the $2200 on up range. Completeness and amount of fabrication will drive the price.

Nelson
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