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Is it possible to swap V8 engine/interior from a 86 Fiero GT into a 85 Fiero GT? by Fierri
Started on: 08-31-2014 02:32 AM
Replies: 17 (528 views)
Last post by: Fierri on 09-03-2014 11:48 PM
Fierri
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Report this Post08-31-2014 02:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I found this 1986 Fiero GT with a rebuilt small block 400 V8 on ebay with only 2 days left to bid. Here is the link to the ebay ad:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pon...64&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

I currently have a ferrari testatorssa kit car based on a stretched 1985 Fiero GT.
I wonder whether it is cost effective (or even possible) to buy this 86 GT Fiero and take its V8 engine, wiring harness, V8 adaptor, and other parts (gauges, car seats, etc.) and install them in my 85 GT Fiero-based kit car.

Are there significant differences between the 85 and 86 GT Fiero (engine, electronics, drive train, and interior) that would make the engine & part swaps difficult or costly?

How much do you think a shop would charge for the labor cost to do the swap?

Your inputs are much appreciated!

[This message has been edited by Fierri (edited 08-31-2014).]

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Report this Post08-31-2014 08:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The interior should be a simple remove and replace, but it will take time to fully disassemble the interior from 2 cars and reinstall one of them.

The bigger challenge will be on the engine swap. Most SBC installs have the engine/transmission mount brackets welded to the cradle and with your replica having an extended wheel base, you can't just swap the entire cradle. You will either have to "extend" the cradle with the SBC or cut all the welds on the engine/transmission mounts and move everything to your cradle. It would probably be quicker to extend the SBC cradle so you don't have to dismantle everything on both cradles.

Depending on how much your chassis was extended and how everything was ran on the SBC, you might run into some issues with the harness and some hoses being too short and needing to be extended or replaced.

Also, depending on how the SBC was installed, it may or may not have a frame notch on the passenger frame rail. If it does, then all that work will have to be redone on your chassis, or you can redo the swap, reposition the engine, and run a water pump setup that doesn't require the frame notch.
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Fierri
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Report this Post08-31-2014 01:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks fieroguru for your tremendously helpful advices. If I were to purchase the donor car, I do want to put my current engine on it and resell the donor car to recoup my swap costs. That means I might want to leave both cars' cradle in place. But it seems like it doing this double swap will double the labor cost and more technically challenged than just purchasing a new engine alone. For example, I am looking at this 3800SC engine currently listed on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PON...em3cdea7247e&vxp=mtr

What do you think about this 3800SC engine for the swap and is the asking price reasonable?

[This message has been edited by Fierri (edited 08-31-2014).]

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NetCam
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Report this Post08-31-2014 01:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The asking price on that motor seem just a tad steep
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DKcustoms
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Report this Post08-31-2014 08:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for DKcustomsSend a Private Message to DKcustomsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierri:

Thanks fieroguru for your tremendously helpful advices. If I were to purchase the donor car, I do want to put my current engine on it and resell the donor car to recoup my swap costs. That means I might want to leave both cars' cradle in place. But it seems like it doing this double swap will double the labor cost and more technically challenged than just purchasing a new engine alone. For example, I am looking at this 3800SC engine currently listed on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PON...em3cdea7247e&vxp=mtr

What do you think about this 3800SC engine for the swap and is the asking price reasonable?



Even though that motor is "remanufactured" I'd say thats at least $1700 too high.

I bought my parts car, 2001 bonneville SSEi with the 3800 SC, for $1000 total.
Once the motor comes out we will be going through it to make sure it is good, but it wont be another $2200, thats for sure.
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Fierri
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Report this Post08-31-2014 08:39 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Netcam and DKCustom for your advices! You guys definitely gave me a good ball part figure for such engine. I might consider bargaining down the cost of the engine currently listed for sale on Ebay. Seems like the seller has all the parts for the swap, but I am not sure. I wonder if you guys know of any other major items that needs to be purchased separately to complete the swap.

Here is a description of my current car (from the person I recently purchased my TR-body Fiero from):

"[The TR kit car was built on a properly stretched 1985 Fully loaded non salvaged Fiero GT. It is the proper dimensions of a real Testarossa... the wheel offset is like the real car, and the tire and rim size is the same as the real car...the ride height is low without a bunch of wheel well space like the real car.... Heater and A/C work perfect. ...Now for the drive train and suspension. The engine is a mild, but very reliable upgrade from the standard 2.8. It is a newer 3.1 GM Goodwrench engine with a few mild performance modifications such as all cooling upgrades, bigger throttle body, performance chip, and jet coated headers and y-pipe that go through a custom muffler and out of some very nice Silverline stainless steel exhaust tips. The transmission is the 5 speed Getrag shifts smooth in every gear. The front suspension has been all gone through all rubber has been replaced with poly bushings, KYB shocks, and Eibach lowering springs, and front sway bar. The rear suspension also has had all rubber replaced with poly bushings and cradle mounts. tubular lower A-arms with coil over KYB struts, and rear added sway bar."

[This message has been edited by Fierri (edited 09-17-2014).]

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rogergarrison
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Report this Post09-01-2014 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Ive done one frame stretch on a Lambo. My Ferrari kit used a stock Fiero chassis. Both were 86s. None of my stretch was in the cradle...it was ahead of it. I see no reason you can just swap whole cradle/engine assemblies from one to the other. Far as I know the only chassis/cradle thats different is the 88.
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Fierri
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Report this Post09-01-2014 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks Roger. That's good to know! I see, so if my TR-body Fiero's engine cradle wasn't stretched, I should be able to just take the whole engine and the cradle from the donor over the TR. Nice!
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Report this Post09-02-2014 05:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yup...The stretches are usually behind the seats and ahead of the cradle mounts. Switching interiors should be fairly easy too, but you need to add to the side and floor carpet/trim behind the seats too. So you need some scrap matching carpeting or vinyl.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 09-02-2014).]

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Fierri
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Report this Post09-02-2014 05:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Actually, my Fiero has an engine cradle that was stretched too. But from what the seller of the car told me, I could remove the engine from the donor car and fit it on the stretched cradle.
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fieroguru
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Report this Post09-02-2014 05:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Fierri:

Actually, my Fiero has an engine cradle that was stretched too. But from what the seller of the car told me, I could remove the engine from the donor car and fit it on the stretched cradle.


Yes, but most of the engine/transmission mounts are likely welded to the old cradle, so it will take someone with some skill to remove them w/o trashing the mounts or the stock cradle.
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Report this Post09-02-2014 06:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wow, seems like swapping engine on a car with a stretched cradle is quite a challenge. The guy selling a rebuilt 3800SC engine on ebay came down on the price to about $2K. I have an 85 Fiero GT base with some modifications to the engine & transmission. Some info from the person who sold me my current TR kit car (see below).

""Now for the drive train and suspension. The engine is a mild, but very reliable upgrade from the standard 2.8. It is a newer 3.1 GM Goodwrench engine with a few mild performance modifications such as all cooling upgrades, bigger throttle body, performance chip, and jet coated headers and y-pipe that go through a custom muffler and out of some very nice Silverline stainless steel exhaust tips. The transmission is the 5 speed Getrag shifts smooth in every gear. The front suspension has been all gone through all rubber has been replaced with poly bushings, KYB shocks, and Eibach lowering springs, and front sway bar. The rear suspension also has had all rubber replaced with poly bushings and cradle mounts. tubular lower A-arms with coil over KYB struts, and rear added sway bar."

I wonder with these modifications will make it possible to put an 3800SC in, or will the car need other major modifications to accommodate the 3800SC
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Report this Post09-03-2014 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rogergarrisonClick Here to Email rogergarrisonSend a Private Message to rogergarrisonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I dont know why anyone would stretch the cradle myself unless they were going to put a longitudinal engine in. Seems like a WHOLE LOT of unnecessary work. You usually only stretch it to make a longer wheelbase and it can be done anywhere between the 2 axles. Behind the seat is the far easiest point. I think my Lambo was an 8" stretch.
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Report this Post09-03-2014 12:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison:

I dont know why anyone would stretch the cradle myself unless they were going to put a longitudinal engine in. Seems like a WHOLE LOT of unnecessary work. You usually only stretch it to make a longer wheelbase and it can be done anywhere between the 2 axles. Behind the seat is the far easiest point. I think my Lambo was an 8" stretch.


Depends entirely on how the kit was designed in regards to the doors. If they reuse the stock Fiero doors (most kits), then most stretches can't happen in the passenger compartment. If the kit comes with new doors designed around a new door opening (like many Lambo kits), then the stretch can happen within the passenger compartment.

Almost every F-car replica has the stretch happen in the engine bay. Some people extend the cradles, some relocate the front mounting points so they can use the stock cradle.
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Fierri
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Report this Post09-03-2014 04:23 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
My TR kit car has the original Fiero doors. My understanding from corresponding with the builder of the car is ... in his own words "the cradle has to have extensions put on or the wheel base would never be right. The cradle itself is stock, but it has to have extended rails added in order to get the wheel base longer, or you would still have a stock Fiero wheel base as opposed to the 7” longer Ferrari wheel base". Since the width of the car (77") is almost as wide as the TR (77.8"), I'd imagine the cradle could have been widened as well. The wheel base is about 100" just as the factory TR. The technical basis behind the cradle stretch and ways to avoid stretching it are beyond me at this point ... still learning things about the vehicle & Fiero.
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Fierri
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Report this Post09-03-2014 04:35 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Found some very useful info on what items are needed to do the 3800SC swap (and other engine swap as well) from WestcoastFiero: http://www.westcoastfiero.c.../conversion_info.php

The 3800SC swap, according to WCF, would be around $8K + $2K engine = $10K total, not including car shipping. Steep price!
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Report this Post09-03-2014 08:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroguruSend a Private Message to fieroguruEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Granted this was with a 3" stretch, but here is an example of performing the rear chassis stretch while keeping the cradle its stock length. Notice the spacer that is welded to the stock cradle front attachment tabs and the new mounting location 3" further to the rear.

I stole the picture from Blooze's 355 build thread:
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Fierri
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Report this Post09-03-2014 11:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for FierriClick Here to visit Fierri's HomePageSend a Private Message to FierriEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Interesting.
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