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N/A L26 Series 3 3800 HP? by jediperk
Started on: 08-26-2014 09:59 PM
Replies: 9 (589 views)
Last post by: hnthomps on 08-30-2014 01:55 PM
jediperk
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Report this Post08-26-2014 09:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bought a 2008 Buick Lacrosse over the weekend that has the N/A L26 Series 3 3800 engine. I was pleasantly surprised at how strong this motor is in 3600 lb. sedan. I'm thinking that the 200 HP / 230 TQ rating might be a little underrated. It feels like it's making at least those power numbers at the wheels. Anyone have some clairvoyance on these engines?
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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-28-2014 12:28 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
GM offered a 3.29 final drive ratio in the Lacrosse transmission as an option, I believe. If the Lacrosse you drove had the 3.29 final drive ratio differential in it, I'm sure it would feel quite peppy with that 200hp 3800 Series 3 engine in it.

Most 3800 N/A engines got paired with a trans that had a 2.86 or 3.05 final drive ratio and those feel quite a bit more sluggish with the same motor.

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Report this Post08-28-2014 12:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Mine has the 3.05 ratio. I think when I get some time in a couple months I'm going to take it over to the local dyno shop and find out what the power really is. This thing has way more grunt than I was expecting. It had so much grunt that when I got back from the test drive the first thing I did was pop the hood and check for a supercharger. In normal driving it feels just as stout as my brothers Deville with a N*.
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Report this Post08-28-2014 01:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Butt dyno perception can be quite deceiving.

What year Deville? The 7th gen N* weighs about 4300 lbs. The 8th gen only weighs 3800 lbs. That's 300-800 lbs heavier than your Buick, and the N* only makes 275-300 lb-ft of torque in the Deville applications. So the "feel" will be about the same for power, between the L26 3800 in the Lucerne, and the Deville, depending on what year the Deville is. The different torque curves on the 3800 and N* also help with that.

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Darth Fiero
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Report this Post08-28-2014 03:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Darth FieroClick Here to visit Darth Fiero's HomePageClick Here to Email Darth FieroSend a Private Message to Darth FieroEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jediperk:

Mine has the 3.05 ratio. I think when I get some time in a couple months I'm going to take it over to the local dyno shop and find out what the power really is. This thing has way more grunt than I was expecting. It had so much grunt that when I got back from the test drive the first thing I did was pop the hood and check for a supercharger. In normal driving it feels just as stout as my brothers Deville with a N*.


The other thing you may want to keep in mind is that the DBW throttle control system may open the throttle farther than what you tell it to do at the accelerator pedal (part throttle situations). So it may feel like very little gas pedal movement really makes it take off fast.
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Report this Post08-28-2014 07:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:

Butt dyno perception can be quite deceiving.

What year Deville? The 7th gen N* weighs about 4300 lbs. The 8th gen only weighs 3800 lbs. That's 300-800 lbs heavier than your Buick, and the N* only makes 275-300 lb-ft of torque in the Deville applications. So the "feel" will be about the same for power, between the L26 3800 in the Lucerne, and the Deville, depending on what year the Deville is. The different torque curves on the 3800 and N* also help with that.


Yeah, I was taking that into consideration along with the 4T80 adding more parasitic loss on the drive train side of things... It just makes me think this is a better way to go. Less weight, better fuel economy and similar level of normal driving thrust.

[This message has been edited by jediperk (edited 08-28-2014).]

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Report this Post08-28-2014 07:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

jediperk

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quote
Originally posted by Darth Fiero:


The other thing you may want to keep in mind is that the DBW throttle control system may open the throttle farther than what you tell it to do at the accelerator pedal (part throttle situations). So it may feel like very little gas pedal movement really makes it take off fast.


Now that you mention it, I think that is part of it. I got on it WOT today and it petered out in a hurry past 4000 rpm. Feels a lot like my brothers 4.9 in that regards. Still, I really like the way it drives and the fuel economy it gets as a D/D. Plus, it means my Fiero no longer has to pull D/D duties.
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Report this Post08-29-2014 09:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dobeySend a Private Message to dobeyEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jediperk:
Yeah, I was taking that into consideration along with the 4T80 adding more parasitic loss on the drive train side of things... It just makes me think this is a better way to go. Less weight, better fuel economy and similar level of normal driving thrust.


If you're talking about a swap into a Fiero, comparing the engines in their original platforms doesn't really do them justice. You'd need to drive two Fieros with those engine swaps, where they are both using the same transmission you'd use in the Fiero, and ideally in cars with the same size tires. I don't think there's a meaningful difference in driveline loss with the 4t80 over the 4t65, but I think it is a bit heavier. The big differences in the original cars are gear ratios, tire sizes, and weights. An 800lb heavier car with only 45 lb-ft more torque, isn't going to move any faster.

The 3800 is a cheaper and easier swap to do though, and with the SC version, very easy to get 300 lb-ft and hp out of.
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Report this Post08-30-2014 10:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for jediperkSend a Private Message to jediperkEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dobey:


If you're talking about a swap into a Fiero, comparing the engines in their original platforms doesn't really do them justice. You'd need to drive two Fieros with those engine swaps, where they are both using the same transmission you'd use in the Fiero, and ideally in cars with the same size tires. I don't think there's a meaningful difference in driveline loss with the 4t80 over the 4t65, but I think it is a bit heavier. The big differences in the original cars are gear ratios, tire sizes, and weights. An 800lb heavier car with only 45 lb-ft more torque, isn't going to move any faster.

The 3800 is a cheaper and easier swap to do though, and with the SC version, very easy to get 300 lb-ft and hp out of.


I actually wasn't thinking about a swap into a Fiero, but already having a N* fiero if I were doing a swap from scratch it would definitely be a built 3.4L with a turbo or a 3800. You get a lot more bang for the buck that way. My N* is freakin' awesome when it's not acting up, but when it does act up its like trying to work on a freakin' Lambo; a royal PITA. That said though, the exhaust note of a N* in a Fiero is ridiculous. My wife made a comment once that as soon as the car gets within ear shot every male in the vicinity turns and looks. The 4T80 does have more parasitic loss than a 4T60 or 65. The core inside a 4T80 is massive. The plus side is when I do build it up going after 10's in the 1/4 I won't have to worry nearly as much about blowing up the trans as the 3800 guys do...
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Report this Post08-30-2014 01:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsClick Here to Email hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by jediperk:


I actually wasn't thinking about a swap into a Fiero, but already having a N* fiero if I were doing a swap from scratch it would definitely be a built 3.4L with a turbo or a 3800. You get a lot more bang for the buck that way.


If you decide to go this route, I would suggest using the 3800 SC instead of a turbo 3.4. I actually have both of these engines installed with a Getrag 282on almost identical cars and base my statements on driving each vehicle as well as installation issues. IMHO you get more bang for the buck with a 3800 SC engine. A good turbo setup is not cheap and there is a lot of plumbing work required. The 3800 necessitates more electrical work on the harness and both engines can benefit from a custom tune.

Nelson
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