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87 2.5 5spd - won't run by TriumphFetish
Started on: 08-26-2014 03:34 PM
Replies: 12 (134 views)
Last post by: Csjag on 08-27-2014 08:31 AM
TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-26-2014 03:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey all,

I've read every thread I can find about my situation. Here goes. Friday, I pulled a running car that had no codes or drive-ability issues other than what I thought was a failing/low pressure fuel pump. (made a horrible grinding noise a couple of times and acted like it was fuel starved at highway speeds) I dropped the tank, no issues there, replaced the original fuel pump, re-installed the tank, again no issues and the car won't start. The pump comes on and stops after 2-3 secs, the tach jumps when you crank it, The fuel pump cycles when you bump the starter, the fuel filter is new, and when I cracked the fuel inlet (I don't have the pressure gauge adapter) fuel sprays to the ceiling, and using a test light had a pulsing signal at the fuel injector. SO at that point I changed the injector. When I went to start it, it fired, coughed and went back to just cranking. Through all of this if you dribble gas or spray starting fluid it would start and run fine as long as you were feeding it fuel.

Has anyone every seen or heard of the ecu burning up an injector? Overloading it?

I have tested or replaced just about everything in the control system that would cause the car not to start. I've used the manual and all the advice I could find here on the forum. I have checked fusible links, grounds, everything I can check. I've replaced, ecu, rebuilt the brick, I even have a new chip coming. I'm out of ideas.

Help me Obi-Wan Kanobi...
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benoitmalenfant
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Report this Post08-26-2014 04:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for benoitmalenfantSend a Private Message to benoitmalenfantEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Did you test the injector after it fired and then choked?

If it runs with starter fluid and you have decent pressure at the inlet, I don't see what else but the injector could be the cause...

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[This message has been edited by benoitmalenfant (edited 08-26-2014).]

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TopNotch
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Report this Post08-26-2014 04:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TopNotchClick Here to visit TopNotch's HomePageSend a Private Message to TopNotchEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
You mentioned cracking the fuel connection and getting spray. Have you tried pulling the injector right after cranking? You should get spray then also. If not, something's blocking fuel to the injector.
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TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-26-2014 05:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by benoitmalenfant:

Did you test the injector after it fired and then choked?

If it runs with starter fluid and you have decent pressure at the inlet, I don't see what else but the injector could be the cause...


Those were my thoughts as well, but I can hear it click and cycle if I connect the injector directly to a 12v source outside the car.

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TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-26-2014 05:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

TriumphFetish

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quote
Originally posted by TopNotch:

You mentioned cracking the fuel connection and getting spray. Have you tried pulling the injector right after cranking? You should get spray then also. If not, something's blocking fuel to the injector.


Yes, If I pull the injector right away it will spray there too. When I crank fuel drips out of the injector. I'm not 100% sure its coming through the injector or past the o-rings. I coated them with silicone spray and they sure feel like they are fully seated though so I don't suspect them at this point.

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TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-26-2014 05:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

TriumphFetish

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The only other thing I can think is maybe a bad connector. The noid light lights and cycles but it is a dim yellow. I don't know how bright the noid light is supposed to be.

Thanks for the suggestions.
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phonedawgz
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Report this Post08-26-2014 05:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageClick Here to Email phonedawgzSend a Private Message to phonedawgzEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
So temporally hot wire the fuel pump to run and then apply 12v to the injector. Does it spray?



Key on engine off does the injector spray if you ground the blue wire? It should.

Cranking what voltage do you get on the red injector wire? What voltage do you get at the battery during cranking? They should be close to the same. If the injector red voltage drops off during cranking your problem is going to be a high resistance connection to the injector.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 08-26-2014).]

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TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-26-2014 06:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will try those things and post back tonight. Shall I just jumper the fuel pump at the diagnostic connector for the first test?
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theogre
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Report this Post08-26-2014 08:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
87 P4 ECM is known w/ this problem... works normal, cools off after shutdown, won't get Injector signal later trying to start.
use search
Get another ECM.
See my Cave, ECM Heat

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TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-26-2014 11:05 PM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey all,

I wish I could tell you that my issue was something cool like a blown ecu... Sadly, in my haste to finish the fuel pump swap so I could finish the work on my motorcycle, I mixed up the fuel lines. The fuel pressure I was seeing was on the return line.
Operator error strikes again. That said, after replacing everything the car runs fantastic! It's never started as fast or idled as smooth!

I still feel like a total dumb ass.

Good night all. Thanks for the help.


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KurtAKX
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Report this Post08-27-2014 02:37 AM Click Here to See the Profile for KurtAKXSend a Private Message to KurtAKXEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by TriumphFetish:

Hey all,

I wish I could tell you that my issue was something cool like a blown ecu... Sadly, in my haste to finish the fuel pump swap so I could finish the work on my motorcycle, I mixed up the fuel lines. The fuel pressure I was seeing was on the return line.
Operator error strikes again. That said, after replacing everything the car runs fantastic! It's never started as fast or idled as smooth!

I still feel like a total dumb ass.

Good night all. Thanks for the help.




Do you have a gear reduction starter on it, like one from a mid-1990s or newer 3100 V6?
If not, pick one up, you'll be pleased with even faster starting and a starter motor which is not as loud.
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TriumphFetish
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Report this Post08-27-2014 06:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TriumphFetishClick Here to Email TriumphFetishSend a Private Message to TriumphFetishEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I still have the stock starter. Whenever it fails i plan to do the upgrade.
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Csjag
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Report this Post08-27-2014 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for CsjagClick Here to Email CsjagSend a Private Message to CsjagEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Don't feel bad last time I changed mine I reverse wired it so it was running backwards
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