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Please help! Having issues with my gen 2 headlight motors by Lou and Blue
Started on: 08-18-2014 03:47 PM
Replies: 35 (578 views)
Last post by: Lou and Blue on 09-08-2014 09:06 PM
Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-18-2014 03:47 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I just installed a gen 2 headlight motor upgrade into my 1985 gt. I installed the motors, harness and module. When I have the hood up. The motors work fine and bring the headlights up all the way. But when I shut the hood, the motors a dont have enough strength to push against the headlight doors and they only lift up 2 inches. When I lift the hood, turn on the headlights and just gently touch the headlight as its rising, it will stop. Has anyone her had this issue and can please give me any possible remedy?
I cleaned up the grounds and tried again with the hood open and they work fine but with the hood closed, the motors are still not strong enough to push the headlight door open and raise The headlights more than two inches.
Please help!!
Thank you,
Louis

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keeip it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
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Report this Post08-18-2014 04:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There's a circuit in the module that senses the amount of current flowing through to the motors. When a certain limit is reached, the module turns the power off to the motors. By the sound of things, if you can stop the motors from rising with just a finger touch then it's most likely the module that's defective.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-18-2014 08:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Since I don't know how to test the module, I'm going to jump the motors and see if they can lift the hood flaps. This way i can rule them out and see if its the module. Since they both go up exactly the same amount before stopping i dont think its the motots because they woudlnt be equally weak most probably. do they get a full 12volts? If I wire them directly to the battery is that too much amperage, maybe I could wire them from a fuse in the fuse panel? Could it be the relay? Thanks

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keeip it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 08-18-2014).]

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Bloozberry
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Report this Post08-18-2014 09:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The relays are built into the module... there are no separate relays in the gen 2 circuit.

As for testing them, you can indeed run 12V to them directly, but just make sure you take the battery leads off as soon as the motors hit their stops or you will burn the wires and/or the motor windings. To spool them up you'll need to apply 12V to the gry/blk wire on the LH motor and the grey wire on the RH motor while grounding the green wires.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-18-2014 09:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Thanks man, the direct battery amperage isnt too much for the
Motors? The person I bought the setup from is sending me a different module. Maybe I should just wait and try that first so as not to risk damaging the motors.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-18-2014 10:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you have another module on the way then wait! No sense taking the chance of buggering up your motors.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-18-2014 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by NetCam:

If you have another module on the way then wait! No sense taking the chance of buggering up your motors.


I agree.
Thanks to all! Ill post results when I install the module.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keeip it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

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donuteater306
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Report this Post08-18-2014 11:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for donuteater306Click Here to Email donuteater306Send a Private Message to donuteater306Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
is the battery dead or dying?
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Report this Post08-18-2014 11:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BlacktreeClick Here to visit Blacktree's HomePageClick Here to Email BlacktreeSend a Private Message to BlacktreeEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If you're doing this with the engine off and a weak battery, then it's quite possible for the headlight motors to not get enough power to open fully. Try it with the engine running and/or a charger attached to the battery, if you haven't already.

If the battery is fully charged, and the motors are still too weak, you can try "hot-wiring" them with direct battery voltage, as mentioned above. It won't damage anything, as long as you kill the power when the motors stop moving.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-19-2014 08:11 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Battery is new, the motors drive the headlights up all the way unless there is pressure on them from either the headlight covers or placin a hand on them as they are rising. Ill jump the motors today to make sure, ill cut the power once I see them get even 3/4 up. Because with them hooked into the module they only come up 1/4 travel.
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Report this Post08-19-2014 10:07 AM Click Here to See the Profile for theogreClick Here to visit theogre's HomePageSend a Private Message to theogreEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Any binding then the module WILL shutdown the motor(s) mean the Module is doing it's job.

Binding could be:
Motor(s) w/ issues
link and hinges for lifting the HL
Plastic "bearings" on door are bad
door hinge/spring are binding
Any or All of the above and likely others I've forgotten.

See my Cave, Gen 2 HL Motor

Battery new/charge mean little.
Many reasons the HL motor system can see low volt. Fixing iffy grounds is a start.
See my Cave, Electric Motors

------------------
Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)


The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top and bottom of every forum page...)

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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-19-2014 12:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I didn't know there were plastic bearings on the headlight doors, but the gen 1 motors lifted them fine. I switched because I had a limit swotch issue in the pass side gen 1 motor.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-19-2014 03:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I oiled and used white lithium grease spray on the headlight door hinges and now the motors can push them about halfway up. The motors must be weak. Even jumping the motors direct from the battery they only go up a small amount. I know the headlight doors aren't binding.
The lights went up fully with the gen 1 system. How can the gen 2 system be weaker?
Since they won't push up the headlight doors even directly connected to the battery I am 99% positive it's the motors that are weak and not the module. Or maybe it's a combination of both.
I asked the seller to send me a set of motors that have been tested with the hood down and are strong.
This sucks, I had one good headlight and one I had to manually raise and lower with the gen 1 and now that I went to gen 2 I have two headlights that raise almost halfway.
This is so frustrating, I am sorry I switched to gen 2 , I should have just got a gen 1 rebuilt motor for the pass side and I would have been fine.
Instead I spent more than two e the money to "upgrade" and I'm nothing but frustrated without working headlights. This "quick swap upgrade" has turned into three days of frustration and it still doesn't work! I'm so bummed.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keeip it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

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Report this Post08-19-2014 03:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BloozberrySend a Private Message to BloozberryEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Make sure you lubricate both ends of the pushrod that attaches the motor to the underside of the pod too. There are little nylon bushing in the ends of the pushrod that can wear out and cause binding if they're dry. Can you wind the motors fully up by hand? Can you feel an increase in resistance through part of the travel suggesting they're binding?
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-19-2014 04:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Where can I buy those nylon bushings? I don't remember having them in my gen one or this gen 2 pushrods. It can't be binding if its pushing the headlights up when the hood is up right?
But ill buy those nylon bushings if you can point me in the direction of where to source them.
I don't understand why now even with the good up the pass side doesn't want to go down completely
It will only go down if I toggle the headlight switch on and quickly off once it Stops.
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NetCam
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Report this Post08-19-2014 09:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are the motors making any kind of noise or hesitating? It almost sounds like the bump stops are starting to break down.

BTW, I know your frustration, I had a lot of problems when I upgraded to a Gen 2 system but I now think it was one of the best upgrades I've done, next to the 3800sc of course.

This is how well mine worked on the first try -



And after replacing the bump stops

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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-19-2014 10:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
What are the bump stops? Are they in the motor.or part of the headlight assembly? I wish I could post the video of mine on here. The seller is sending me another pair of motors that he is gonna test with the hood down before sending. I'll post results when I have them.
I lubricated absolutely every moving part of the headlight linkages and the headlight doors, but it didn't help.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

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Report this Post08-19-2014 10:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for NetCamClick Here to visit NetCam's HomePageSend a Private Message to NetCamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Bump stops are the 3 small plastic 'stubby' cylinders inside the motor, without them your motor will just spin and never catch. That's why I was wondering if there was any noise when raising them. They will sound like the first video I posted if they're totally shot. If they're half gone, they could cause the issue you're having.

In this picture you see what mine looked like. The bump stops go in the corners of the 'triangle' part of the gear. The crumbs to the right are what was left of mine.



This is what they should look like (this pic has the metal gear) -

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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-19-2014 10:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Oh those are what I was calling dowel bushings. The seller said he rebuilt the motors with those from Rodney before he sent me the motors. I think he is installing Rodney ones in the motors he is sending me this time around too.
The motors work fine with the hood up but don't have enough strength to push up the headlight doors of the hood is Closed.
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Report this Post08-20-2014 02:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for mitchjl22Click Here to Email mitchjl22Send a Private Message to mitchjl22Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the same problem and it was my dowel bushings.

-Mitch
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-20-2014 07:38 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
With mine, the seller said he rebuilt the motors using Rodney's bushings right before sending the motors to me. The motors don't spin and spin, they stop at the slightest pressure, like the headlight covers or even just lightly touching the headlight assembly. The motors stop spinning. Wouldnt they keep spinning if the dowel bushings/bump stops were bad?
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Report this Post08-20-2014 07:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maybenotClick Here to Email maybenotSend a Private Message to maybenotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
depends on the design. i am not familiar with headlight motors or these in particular. my mustangs window motors have same design in gears but motor has no "safety" and will just keep spinning doing nothing at all.
can you manually raise and lower lights?
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post08-20-2014 08:09 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The motors do manually raise and lower, they also move the headlights Fine up and down if the is no pressure on the assemblies, but with the slightest pressure they can't push the headlights up. I don't think it's the dowel bushings/bump stops, I think the motors are weak. Even when given Direct voltage from the battery they can't raise the headlights with the hood down. They are not spinning and spinning they just stop.
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maybenot
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Report this Post08-20-2014 08:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maybenotClick Here to Email maybenotSend a Private Message to maybenotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
i would wait for the replacement motors to see. i the mean time i think you can raise lights and unplug motors to keep them raised so at least you dont have to manually raise them every night.
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masospaghetti
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Report this Post08-20-2014 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for masospaghettiClick Here to Email masospaghettiSend a Private Message to masospaghettiEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have the same issue with a rebuilt motor (A1 Cardone), but just on the left side.

Works fine with car is running but won't push the door all the way up with just battery voltage. I'm curious what you find out.
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Report this Post09-02-2014 06:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for maybenotClick Here to Email maybenotSend a Private Message to maybenotEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
did the new motors work?
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post09-02-2014 07:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I haven't recieved them yet. The seller sent a video of a pair lifting the headlight doors and then tracking info so I'm just waiting on them to arrive.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

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nosrac
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Report this Post09-02-2014 10:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
same problem....Your going to laugh but the issue was....Drum roll please....

My issue was the buckets were mated to the wrong side lower part. You may have mated the top RT part with the lower LFT part.

I had the RT bucket on the LFT and the LFT bucket on the RT.

I have a thread on here about it.
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Lou and Blue
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Report this Post09-03-2014 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I don't think so because they worked fine with the gen 1 motors and they work fine as long as the hood is raised. I got the replacement motors
Today but it won't be till Friday earliest that I can swap them out and try it.
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nosrac
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Report this Post09-03-2014 11:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou and Blue:

I don't think so because they worked fine with the gen 1 motors and they work fine as long as the hood is raised. I got the replacement motors
Today but it won't be till Friday earliest that I can swap them out and try it.


I'm telling you I had the EXACT same issue. Take a look at your headlight assemblies. You should have R upper and R lower piece. I bet you assembled the R upper and L lower.
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nosrac
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Report this Post09-03-2014 11:11 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had the Headlamp Connector (metal bar) on wrong side. One bar goes on Drivers and the Other goes on Pass Assembly. The parts should be marked with a R or L unless yours is painted over.




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Report this Post09-04-2014 10:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I never took the hinging headlight bucket apart though. Unless you are just referring to the linkage bar. Ill have to check again this weekend. I labelled pass and driver side as I removed the buckets but all I did was swap the motors and the linkage.
The "Headlamp connector" in the diagram you posted shows the electrical connection .
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nosrac
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Report this Post09-04-2014 02:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou and Blue:

I never took the hinging headlight bucket apart though. Unless you are just referring to the linkage bar. Ill have to check again this weekend. I labelled pass and driver side as I removed the buckets but all I did was swap the motors and the linkage.
The "Headlamp connector" in the diagram you posted shows the electrical connection .



Yes, the linkage Bar. I had it on the wrong side. It fit fine on the wrong side but I experienced the exact same problem. The headlight would go all the way up with the hood open and 1/2 up with it closed.

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Report this Post09-04-2014 08:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Does that picture display the correct orientation of the bar??
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Report this Post09-04-2014 09:22 PM Click Here to See the Profile for nosracSend a Private Message to nosracEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Lou and Blue:

Does that picture display the correct orientation of the bar??


Not sure but it should have an "R" or "L" on it to match the correct headlight assembly piece.
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Report this Post09-08-2014 09:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Lou and BlueClick Here to Email Lou and BlueSend a Private Message to Lou and BlueEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Sorry this isn't gonna be much help , but I was in a rush so I replaced both the module and the motors with the ones the seller sent me at the same time and it works fine now. So I don't know if it was the module or the motors but I'm still guessing the motors because they didnt work right with the direc tbattery connection. Upon swapping the motors I did notice the linkage , but not the straight bar, said L linkside on one side and R linkside on the other, but I can't tell if I swapped them or not.
At least it works now.

------------------
===Always trying to find time to work on cars===
Louis Duet
Baldwin, Long Island, NY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Blue" <= '85 Fiero GT
Stock V6---Stock everything. Trying to keep it 'mostly' that way. But I just got the 3800sc to swap into it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Boo" <= '81 Delorean DMC-12
VIN #5835
"Don't hate ... Carburate!"
Stock PRV engine
Robertson Equipped
Neiland/Delman Engineered
Peugot 604 Intake manifold
Exhaust headers
Anti-3rd brake light

[This message has been edited by Lou and Blue (edited 09-08-2014).]

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